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Iron_Guard8's avatar
Iron_Guard8
Legend
5 years ago

Why BfN can be frustrating

If you play a lot of PvE, you may not even notice some of this stuff, and of the 3 PvZ shooters, BfN has a lot of PvE, so much that you can get play almost 100% PvE as long as you reroll/avoid PvP daily challenges. That being said, as I've been playing a lot of TT lately, some of the most irritating aspects of BfN come to the forefront. I wanted to post this so we can shine a spotlight on things I've found that aren't fun to play as or against, at least in my experience.

Engineers and their turrets: Engineer could be frustrating to play in GW1 and 2 if the plants kept camping your teleporter spots but they've never frustrated me playing against them as a plant until BfN. Having a character with a bouncing projectile that can vanquish you and you can't even see them, while they just sit back and camp inside their turret's radius is one of the most irritating things I've played against and it's a very dull playstyle to boot. For me, Engy was most fun in GW1 with the drones and supporting your team via teleporters, in 2 they were still pretty fun even if I don't like the big bolt blaster as much as the drones. In BfN, the best way to play is to turret camp and just spam your main weapon continuously. 

Rose and Electric Slide's escapes: Getting someone down to almost vanquished only to have them escape into an invincible form (and with the right upgrades, healing to full in that time as well), is seriously anger inducing which is a shame as I otherwise really like ES as a new character. Rose could certainly be obnoxious in GW2 but enigma didn't last as long there and goat didn't go through walls like it does now. 

Scientist: Since GW1, Scientists always felt less heal focused than Sunflower and more of an assault support than straight up support but warp had a timer and you couldn't use it as much (2 vs. 3 charges) as you can in BfN. Add Steam Blaster to this and this class is the most aggravating character to deal with right now. All too often we see a Scientist warp into battle, vanquish multiple plants and then right before he's about to be defeated, he ports away and uses the heal thingy to go back to full health. On the other side of the equation, in BfN the scientist's main heal, the hose, is the first time the character can't heal while shooting which is one of the best aspects of playing healers in GW1 and 2; the fact you could shoot while healing; whether the heal beam in GW2 or the stations in GW1 and 2, the scientist could always fight while also healing, which is just more fun and encourages more team focused play while able to still attack.

Snipers and drones: Snipers are always annoying, let's face it. While the idea of charged snipers doing massive damage is nothing new, it feels different in BfN compared to GW 1 and 2 for obvious reasons and it's throwing people off. Drones are another story. They're so slow now and their climb/descend rate is sluggish so they're super easy to take out now. On a side note, with no damage attenuation over range, the non-sniping characters sniping is another issue that can be difficult to deal with in BfN. 

I know there's other things, like right now; Brainium Basher is a problem' spikeweed is just too weak and grody goop is too good, but these are the things that stand out the most at the core of the PvP experience and it's at least part of some of BfN's current issues.

14 Replies

  • Shadowphinx101's avatar
    Shadowphinx101
    5 years ago
    @Iron_Guard8 I really like the snipers. Obviously the idea of this playstyle is annoying, but it's enjoyable to me. When u have multiple Steam Blasters, it does get very unfair, especially due to how Scientist plays in this game. His dmg output is soo high with the upgrade, it can hit multiple ppl, it has a lingering effect AND the class itself gets to heal himself and he gets 3 warps that recharge too quickly and the mobility is insanity. Engineer to me is such a dumb character. I don't enjoy playing him. The playstyle that has evolved is 'spam and hope for the best', and it works. He can place his turret in a safe place, and gets to spam these insanely powerful projectiles with literally no cooldown. On top of that, he can run away (he's support so he gets hard target), and he can then stun a plant if they get too close. I think, now that sunflower was toned down, she isn't too bad. Obviously, the idea of a 'stamina metre' so players can sprint when taking damage would solve a lot, but Sunflower is manageable. I think the Enigma for Rose can never be fully sorted. With the addition of the long cooldown and Thorn Apart, the majority of players have been using the ability as intended, but u will always get those few that abuse it. Being an e-slide main, I will say her energy warp IS BUSTED. For starters, being an assault class, her warp doesn't make sense with all of her other abilities. It creates a confusing layout. Then defibrillated exists. Essentially Ephiphany, where u regain ALL OF YOUR HEALTH, YOUR AMMO IS REPLENISHED and the cooldown for the warp is quick aswell.
  • TheSprinter85's avatar
    TheSprinter85
    Hero
    5 years ago

    Don’t forget that you can contest the objectives in Turf Takeover, Suburbination and Battle Arena while invincible and stall it out for decent periods of time. Has anyone tried using Chomper with Burrow (and the Well Fed upgrade equipped) and hiding in the corner and doing nothing? I have! While it may not seem game breaking and it is not a glitch, it can be frustrating. 

  • Shadowphinx101's avatar
    Shadowphinx101
    5 years ago
    @TheSprinter85 That is sooo OP in BA. When u have the point, for some reason burrowing on the capture point COUNTS, and unless u are engineer, there is nothing u can do.
  • TheSprinter85's avatar
    TheSprinter85
    Hero
    5 years ago

    The Chomper can also use Grody Goop to spread damage to Zombies that go on the objective while the Chomper burrows. Not very fair to Zombies. That said, there are some ways to counter this. Scientist, Wizard and Engineer.

  • GutmanSca's avatar
    GutmanSca
    5 years ago

    This game by itself is annoying and frustrating. Bad mechanics, bad monetization, 95% of characters, abilites and upgrades are annoying, braindead and busted, there is no competitivity in a game supposedly competitive, bad ranked mode, toxic fanbase, FPS problems (for me at least) and even more.

    You forgot to mention much more in the summary, like healing, there is NO fun in dealing against healers since you can´t kill them and anyone on their team, so you need another healer to do the same job in your team, there is no incentive to pick supports whatsoever (and people won´t pick them lol), transforming the match in a unfun stomp.

    Sprinting, bunnyhoping, braindead characters, one gimmick gameplay, and others are honorable mentions. 

  • Iron_Guard8's avatar
    Iron_Guard8
    Legend
    5 years ago
    @GutmanSca wrote:

    This game by itself is annoying and frustrating. Bad mechanics, bad monetization, 95% of characters, abilites and upgrades are annoying, braindead and busted, there is no competitivity in a game supposedly competitive, bad ranked mode, toxic fanbase, FPS problems (for me at least) and even more.

    You forgot mention much more in the summary, like healing, there is NO fun in dealing against healers since you can´t kill them and anyone on their team, so you need another healer to do the same job in your team, there is no incentive to pick supports whatsoever (and people won´t pick them lol), transforming the match in a unfun stomp.

    Sprinting, bunnyhoping, braindead characters, one gimmick gameplay, and others are honorable mentions. 

    I pretty much agree with all this; the monetization rankles when there are serious problems, healing is too good, it's too easy to escape, and other issues make the combat less fun than in GW1 and 2. Despite that, I do actually enjoy BfN and want it to do well but I would love to just have GW3.

  • Fork_x_Spoon's avatar
    Fork_x_Spoon
    5 years ago
    There should be legendary upgrades for both snipers that give them back their sniping capabilities from Garden Warfare games; less damage, consistent damage, less ammo, & (probably debatable) removal of secondary attacks.
  • voidlistener's avatar
    voidlistener
    5 years ago

    I would not say that game is that much frustrating. Sure, there are some toxing things like AI(especially 80s) and randoms(usually in Giddy Park). Bumping into the same people over and over is a bit awkward. Steam blaster and BB are manageable, unless they sneak on you or flank. I am fine with sprinting, it means that I have the higher ground and makes people desire for retribution less. Haven't seen many problems with healing, mostly need to burst opponent with my team or go behind healers. I get stomped once in a while, usualy because we as a team are too out of sync. I am having fun playing random characters(since I've mastered all of them) with some fun setups like quick shuck shot corn or knockback all-star. Maybe I am just naturally calm.

    Game certainly has stuff to fix, though. Battle arena, some upgrades(apart from legendary ones, there are things like dolphin blasting and uppercut which are pathetic). Tourist trap Island hasn't return yet. Monetization is surely terrible, in GW2 you could earn items from rux within few days of playing and now it will take several months just to get a costume(even more if you go for the discounted bundle) Prize map is fine but doesn't compensate for the lack of content.

    I was participating in testing MMH7. Might and magic is excellent franchise with which I started my journey into PC gaming. And honestly, we don't have it that bad. Devs may act weird, but they haven't give up on game yet despite having a lot of problems. We can work with this.

  • Pheesley's avatar
    Pheesley
    5 years ago

    These are good points and these are mostly a problen due to poor balancing. No need to try very much as engineer when he has the perfect tools for spamming.

    The problems with Warp and Arcane enigma were fixed in the GW games. The fact that BFN has a higher TTK and these abilities activate faster/instantly is a step backwards in terms of balancing.

    Snipers and especially 80s will be better, mostly because other classes don't have the damage to kill them quickly enough, even at close range.  And drones are pretty bad now

    The lack of Damage dropoff contributes to other problems than just interactions with snipers. Pretty much every class is fixed at a certain range to be effective. Even attack classes. Fights are very campy and slow, and you pretty much just keep your distance, and do enough damage to advance, rather than get in close. And it feels really awkward when playing as soldier or corn in close range, when I'm still doing the same damage as I was when sniping. The game basically forces the player to snipe as characters that should not have to snipe, because their damage is too low for closer ranges.

    Damage is low overall to account for the lack of dropoff. Imp, soldier, and corn deal the minimum falloff damage of their GW2 counterparts, and they feel terrible in BFN unless I am sniping or have a dps boost. BFN has low damage / a higher TTK than the GW games, yet it also has higher Healing rates and Overhealth. The damage is still too low to keep up with the agility / mobility of many characters. And to fix this, they added an annoying mechanic where you lose jump height and sprint speed for taking damage.

    It would be so much better if they just increased the damage! Which is why we need Damage dropoff to balance out higher damage!

    I can't blame people for using op classes or upgrades like steam blaster, because for me, these classes that can deal higher damage  are the only fun options for enjoying the PVP. They have had 9 months to fix this game without damage dropoff, but it has proven to be too difficult. And I dont blame

    them! We need damage dropoff.

  • Pheesley's avatar
    Pheesley
    5 years ago
    @voidlistener The gameplay itself produces frustration. No toxic players or game breaking bugs needed. The TTK for many classes in BFN is higher than the GW games, which already had a fairly high TTK. On top of that, characters are more mobile(and not just with sprinting), Healing rates are much higher, and Overhealth exists. None of these features mix well with the current TTK. Meanwhile, I'm sniping with a high ROF attack class, who constantly has to keep his distance like a sniper class, which feels very wrong. Fights are too slow and campy, and there really isn't much thought put into an average fight. I've played many shooters, and this has remained a frustrating and unsatisfying experience since launch.

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