Zombies are not Balanced
Zombies are not balanced(...again). There is so much to talk about I don't even know where to start. They are way stronger than the plants. I was on something around a 7 to 8 game loss streak as the ...
Forum Discussion
Anything that requires timing and smart play to be power is NOT by itself a powerful card. This is why bananasaurus and double mint are rather weak legendaries in my opinion. A lot of other cards can become unstoppable at right circumstances, and it is easier to do so.
Example: Pepper MD - ceiling? Couple times at turn 8, I made 2 10/10 pepper MDs, more than often I am able to drop this at 6/6, and if my opponent wants to use locust swarm on it? GREAT!!! Now I drop my super phat beets for 6/6 7/7 body. If I get the heals rolling early, and this thing grows since an early turn, even better, much more useful than double mint. For 2 mana that can often force your opponent to use 5 brains to deal with? I consider this card far better than both leg mentioned above.
Hibernating Beary - if your opponent is tapped out of brains, and you placed this at a 2 dmg or 3 dmg zombie, you can basically allow this plant to go off the charts at turn 4 (which they don't have access to locust swarm).
Blackeyed bean - I consider this the best card for plants, because many zombies are essentially forced to play tricks because of the turn order. If you put this bean at the right spot, it will force zombies to consider it twice before they use a trick to eliminate another plant. This is basically the insurance policy for plant heroes.
The reason why the great Zucchini is good because even if they eliminate the body, the damage is already done. At 9 mana, this is the best counter to someone who is playing giant Gargans like octo, sea monster, wizard etc. This also kills Octo's afterlife, which gives an insane value against a really good
I consider three headed chomper excellent because of the turn order. When played, zombies are essentially forced to use a trick on this. This is because you would place this plant at a place where it essentially protects 3 lanes and not get attacked. If they want to trade a locust swarm for it, fine, it is a pretty fair trade. If not, and this plant is able to eat 1 or 2 zombies, it already earned its value.
When you have to play it a certain way, or do certain thing in order to make a card powerful, then it is not a powerful card. The best cards are the ones when played (at any time) do one of the following:
1. immediately rewards you with value equal to or higher than the card's cost
2. Forces your opponent to immediately to spend equal or more resources to deal with. If they don't, it immediately rewards you enough that you gain a MASSIVE advantage.
PS: The trickster is the best card overall in the game, because it can get really cheap, and it deals damage immediately without any set up.
Also, I consider octo zombie a really good play, because of the afterlife. This means that this is 2x 8/8 frenzy. Which is really hard to deal with in the late game. This is especially true if you forced plants to use squashes on sea monster, or some other card already.
You think Pepper MD is better than bananasaurus and double mint?? I can tell you right now that 4 times out of 5 I would rather have someone drop the MD rather than one of the two legendaries. Unless you are late game, drop an MD and heal 3 times in one turn, it just doesn't represent the same threat level AT ALL.
MD needs other cards to synergise with it to be great. Bananasaurus and double mint become better each turn ON THEIR OWN. That is infinitely better value.
I agree that Zombie have amazing legendaries. I wouldn't say that Trickster is the best card in the game. You have to build a trick-heavy deck around it. Something like Zombot 1000 is just great on it's own, no need for extra setup. Some people argue that it's too strong even, but it needs to exist to counter (in a way) Cornucopia.
Speaking of Cornucopia, that another great plant legend. Basically a "you need multiple answers now or you lose the game" card, in most situation.
Soul Patch is an insane control card and one of my favorite legendaries in the game. It will always gain you value unless hard removed on the spot.
Wall-nut Bowling as won me more games than any other legendary cards.
Winter Melon is good but need the right deck/setup.
Dandy lion king is insane in the right decks too.
My point? Both plants and zombies have legendary cards that rank from bonkers to great in the right decks.
and again, I've played over 3000 matches of this game and I still feel like the game is well balanced. Maybe not PERFECTLY balanced, but well enough.
I did NOT say peper MD is better. The point is, this is the tier where the cards need set up to become effective, it doesn't have enough immediately value to be in the "this card is strong" tier for me. I use it to compare to cards like the great zucchini, which when played, you can reap rewards immediately. Over time, the card will gain a lot of value, never denied that, but having immediate value outweighs over time value, that's the entire point. Also, Pepper MD is a really strong because it is at worst 2 for 2/2, which is an average 2 sun body. The cost is also important in considering a card. You make it sound like the healing is useless, and the sole purpose is to make Pepper MD stornger. The fact is that the healing allow your other plants to make favorite trades, while boosting a 2 sun (again, this card costs 2 suns!!!) up to 4/4, or 6/6.
The biggest misunderstanding of my post by you seems to be the difference between a card being overall strong, and a card effect being strong.
Overall strength:
I take into account GAME META, GAME SPEED, REWARD OF PLAYING CARD. All the legendary cards have SUPER strong effects, but due to other facts, a lot of legends are "weak", and hard to play. Example
1. Bowling. I use this because it is a 10 sun card. In a CCG that needs to deal big damage fast (before your opponent gets too many superpowers), the game is usually decided around 6 or 7 suns, so a 10 sun card will be really hard to play in this meta. The effect is definitely insane, creates 3 nuts, and 6 damage in 3 lanes? That's worth 12 suns at least.
2. bananasaurus - the issue I have here is that zombies play tricks after plants. which means you have to be really careful playing this card, or else it can be eliminated right off the board, Even if it doesn't, you gain steady rewards each turn. I can make this comparison to threeheaded chomper, which it not eliminated by a zombie trick, immediately allow the plant player to reap HUGE rewards.
The main point of the post is also you don't need legendary cards to be competitive. I beat plenty of players with rare or below
I agree with you on a few points but before we get there, I don't think we can say that this game currently has a "meta". The game has been out worldwide only a couple of weeks now and I see way too many different types of decks to say that they are 3-4 "main ones" on each side. A meta usually allows you to anticipate to a certain degree what the opponent will play given which heroes they have, and while you can do that to a certain degree, it's mainly due to the limited options each deck has as opposed to an actual Meta. It takes a lot of really good players to break down a game like this and create a meta, which this game hasn't seen surface yet. That's my opinion of course. Though I can't wait for this to happen as I'm craving more serious competition.
Now, I 100% agree with you that you don't need Legendary cards to be competitive. Been there done that much like you, so on that we agree. I'm sure we also agree that Legendary cards make decks often better, but that's besides the main point.
In terms of specific legendaries, we could try and rank each one from best to worst (This actually sounds fun! I'd actually love to do this and chat with you and others about our own order), but right now, I want to say that I get what you mean by the difference between a card being overall strong, and a card effect being strong. I'm just not sure we'd agree on which is which.
Zombot 1000 or Cornucopia are, in my opinion, overall strong. They do boast a powerful "effect", but you are sure to get value when you play them because of their "enter the field" effects. (More for Timmy-types of players)
bananasaurus and Undying pharaoh aren't going to dominate the field as they are played, but left uncheck can swing the game in a major way.
Then there are the weird legendaries like Barrel of deadbeards Winter melon that require a bit more setup to shine and will appeal a bit more to a creative type of player. (More for Johnny-types of players)
Cheers!
