Re: Kylo Ren Frenzy Broken

The link to the video will be at the bottom of this thread. Items of note to pay attention to: 1. The initial strike of Frenzy was timed to contact while Link was still in an animation and therefore not blocking; as such the initial strike SHOULD have registered damage but did not. 2. You can see that the remaining Frenzy strikes are avoided yet the initial should have yielded damage. 

the video you provided is being played on PC and is pre update. I’m speaking specifically to Xbox One users. In order to do proper research on the issue you must use the same platform where the issue is being observed.

Again, what you’re describing about the Frenzy ability mechanics against a blocking opponent are NOT what I’m experiencing. Opponents are NOT “locked” into Kylos Frenzy, they CAN dodge REPEATEDLY away from both leaps. Proper timing will enable opponents to simply dodge out of the strikes.

If the strikes are unable to bypass blocks AND opponents can directly dodge the strikes every time then how is the ability supposed to be useful? 

The argument for this ability, specifically, to bypass blocks is rooted in the fact that the opponents are allowed to dodge them. That being said; a block bypass is balance because even WITH a block bypass that’s no guarantee of a hit or damage being dealt; it actually doesn’t even guarantee a likelihood at this point at nearly all players are versed in dodge. 

Pull & Feeeze can be blocked and that’s fair. Looking at Kylo’s all around attributes he’s not the fastest character nor does he have the highest dodge potential (like say Dooku). Those attributes are fair but by no means top tier. Kylos base health is average as well; he doesn’t have star cards to increase his base health, his health regen isn’t the fastest, nor is Kylo a tank like Vader or Chewbacca. None of Kylos overall stats are out of line or overly strong. Take Rey for example, her base damage is slightly less than Kylos with this update but she has a disruptive ability that cannot be blocked (potentially dodged in rare cases) which increase her likelihood of landing strikes. Kylo used to be able to leap with Frenzy to reach opponents affected by his Freeze, however, now he cannot; Freeze has a far larger AOE then Frenzy meaning it’s much harder to use these abilities in conjunction; even still. Back to my original point. 

I am experiencing situations where Frenzy, being properly timed, is having zero affect on my opponents. Than can block and repetitively dodge the ability, completely negating it. Frenzy is NOT an OP ability; doing the same damage as a standard strike and given that its dodge able there’s no logic in it not bypassing a block. That would create balance.

Now, IF opponents weren’t able to fully dodge out of the Frenzy ability I would agree with you. Opponents are not trapped, at least not on Xbox One. You may be experiencing something different on PC but on the console that’s NOT what’s happening.  

Kylo Ren Frenzy Xbox One

I'd gladly test this on Xbox if I had one. Neither do I have the money to buy one, nor DICE is willing to give me one to conduct some testings as I don't work for them. I can upload newer videos post patch of Kylo doing the same thing, I just linked that one because my frenzy timing was very good on that match.

I've reviewed your video, and I was already prepared to tell you again that saber users can start blocking while standing up even before their standing up animation has finished. But that's not even the case. It's VERY clear Luke (loved the Link typo BTW, he is Star Wars Link after all) starts blocking your Frenzy prior to the first strike. And as I said before, Frenzy can be fully blocked if the target remains blocking for its entire duration. This wasn't like that since launch, and I only got aware of it because of your report, as I stated before. But it's a fact, and that you can say is abusive and I agree. Frenzy, as a block breaking ability, should be fast enough to actually hit with a following strike a broken block character from a previous strike.

Also, you seem not to understand what Locked means in this context. If Phasma starts using her staff strikes, you can move away and ignore her while she's still performing the second or third strikes. She'll be swinging in the air while you're already free to chase other villains. With Kylo, even if you dodge away, he comes right into you with the next strike of Frenzy. It's very hard to get out of reach or cancel Kylo's Frenzy just by trying to move away/dodge, he must have some scenario to block his frenzy, or you must suffer some serious forced movement effect to get out of his reach while he's using frenzy. If you remain blocking or dodging away, you are LOCKED doing this: you can't focus on attacking or blocking other enemies while Kylo is in his Frenzy on you. You must deal with his Frenzy, either by blocking, dodging, or getting hit, (or in rare cases interrupting him with a staggering/immobilizing/forced-movement effect) but in no way you can ignore him and try to deal with another enemy while he is in his Frenzy targetting you. This effectively locks an enemy into dealing with kylo for 1 to 2 seconds, which can be a relief for your teammates in HvV. This is a tactical move that Frenzy allows, even if it may not deal any damage.

If you insist that Frenzy must bypass blocks expect a serious damage nerf to his ability as DICE won't allow for such a high damaging ability to bypass blocks freely without a nerf. Currently poor shooters are no match for Frenzy if it's performed well. Hitting 2 times with Frenzy on a shooter hero is really easy, I do that all the time, and just that is enough to remove a considerable amount of their permanent health, as 2 Frenzy strikes deal 250 damage (but mine deal 290 as I use the damage enhancing Star Card).

Oh and I find it very easy to link either pull or freeze with Frenzy, although I prefer to strike normally first once or twice to then use Frenzy. If you find it hard to use frenzy on frozen characters, you're probably using the extended Freeze's reach and activating freeze from a standing still position. You can use it while jumping, so your arc propels you to the enemy while performing th freeze, making you get in reach to use frenzy right after it.

So your experience seems to be a normal experience that I see on PC everyday, the gameplay you presented would happen the same way if it was done on PC. I can't see this as an Xbox only issue by the evidence you provided. It seems to be a matter of opinion: you find Frenzy bad because of its working restrictions. As far as I can tell it's working as intended since the latest changes. The only thing I find weird is it not taking advantage of breaking block with the first strike to actually hit with the second strike. IMO I think the strikes could be sped up a bit to at least allow the following strikes to actually hit if the previous strike broke the enemy's block.

The reason I bring up the specificity of Xbox is that you have multiple gen consoles with very different processing capabilities on the same server and I’m trying to discern whether or not there’s a role being played there.

As for saber wilders being able to “block” while still in other animations that is 100% poor gameplay mechanics which only works to impede good timing on various abilities, including Frenzy. 

As far has having to “deal” with Kylo; I can tell you that on Xbox, right now; Kylo will only perform two leaps with his Frenzy since the star card was changed. He only performs the initial leap plus one additional if the target attempts to dodge. If you’re facing an opponent with a high dodge ability then they do have the potential to get away from Kylo in WELL under 2 seconds as they only have to execute two dodges to be free of the lock. This is exceptionally insignificant when you compare that to the disruptive ability of other characters ... Fetts concision or any characters stuns. 

As for blaster users, they VERY much can dodge Frenzy, both leaps if timed properly. And as for bypassing block abilities, well, what about Yodas dash? He can execute a maximum of 3 which combined yields more damage than Frenzy, by far. 

I’m looking at this from a big picture perspective. Kylo is weak because his abilities give you a “potential” to be effective (just like everyone’s) but because of how much blocking can be done that potential is VERY low in terms of effectiveness.

blocks prevent Freeze and Pull with quite a large AOE, in fact, I’m seeing recurring instances on Xbox where they’re blocked while Kylo is behind the opponent. As for Frenzy; saying that his disruption is a big benefit is just ineffective. In the grand scheme of glameplay it’s useless .. not only is it easily evaded but it’s puts Kylo at risk for additional damage from say Luke’s Push or even Solos Charge. 

The few very very minor aspects you’ve mentioned do not, in my opinion, constitute balance. Kylo needs something else; perhaps higher health, faster dodge, faster health regen time ... something to offset the low realistic potential of his abilities.

They’ve made Kylo almost a cheerleader and although I don’t expect him to be a tank his abilities don’t carry the weight in actual gameplay that people think ... at least not on the Xbox. 

My rationale for a block bypass is rooted in the FACT that Kylo’s leap range has been reduced, he only leaps twice, the ability CAN be dodged very quickly. ... also keep in mind that between the high amounts of block & dodge that exist among all characters now that creates a unintended nerf to the Frenzy ability simply by way of gameplay mechanic. Kylo doesn’t disrupt anyone for a significant period of time compared to other disruptive abilities (nobody is disrupted for 2 seconds; maybe 1). a block bypass in this scenario would result in only one hit as a given

... plus you also have to content with the in game reality that characters high mobility helps prevent opponents from getting Frenzied in the first place. The restricted AOE plus the need for it to be precisely timed is already a nerf on an abitliy that wasn’t OP to begin with. You’re talking about a nerf on a nerf on a nerf ... it’s too much. 

Keep in mind I’m no slouch with Kylo, even post update. I’m very effective at working with and scoring with him. That being said I don’t achieve any of that by leaning on his abilities which constitutes an imbalance. Kylo is basically a scavenger at this point ... effective at coming from behind to pick off someone highly damaged or otherwise engaged with his teammates but as a lone contributor to the battle he’s poor. 

He’s weak, his dodge isn’t top tier, his regen isn’t top tier, he doesn’t do more damage than any of his teammates, he can be heavily blocked ... where’s his advantage? Every stat he has is mediocre or sub average and yet there isn’t any stat that’s above which would offset it. 

Now whether there are issues specific to Xbox contributing to gameplay scenarios that I’m experiencing which you aren’t I don’t know ... that’s why this post is here; to get the Devs to look into the issue and fix it because as it stands now; he is, no doubt, the most ineffective Villain on the roster. 

... replying to combining abilities .... no, it’s not easy to combine Frenzy with Pull because opponents can dodge out immediately before the end of the animation, taking them out of the AOE of Frenzy and thereby eliminating the combination.

as for Freeze ... well you “could” but it’s a poor choice for 2 reasons .. the AOE of Freeze is FAR larger than Frenzy to Kylo has to close distance to activate it .. & second, it’s more strategic to attempt to perform a standard strike from behind and get the additional damage than it is to use Frenzy. The only time I try to combine them is when I have distance to close and I need to use the leap before the Freeze duration runs out but this isn’t a benefit either because, as you saw from the video, Freeze doesn’t last long enough for Kylo to close distance before the opponent can “block” while still in animation. 

Its so poorly put together for Kylo that the real world instances where these abilities are beneficial is exceptionally low.

again, I don’t know if on Xbox there are factors that create a disparity over what you see on PC; I do know that there are variations in gameplay between what people observe on Xbox vs PS.

You say it only produces 2 leaps/strikes, yet the video you provided clearly show 3 strikes being performed, despite only the second and third produced the block breaking animation (but animations not appearing isn't proof that something has failed).

I could lose a long time here saying what I agree with you, what I disagree with you, how my experience is completely different from yours and I don't think our platforms have anything to do it. However this is all about opinions on a character and/or skill. This isn't the place for that. Here we discuss BUGs. Head over to https://battlefront-forums.ea.com/categories/the-next-star-wars-battlefront and open it there. If you do open a thread in the main forum to discuss this, I'll go there to share my opinions. However, it'll take a while as I'm banned there. Just one or two weeks more and I'll come back there to give my feedback.

For now I feel nothing is bugged with his Frenzy, despite that huge jump he triggers whenever frenzy is activated in an upwards slope. It isn't a strong skill, but in my experience it's a very good skill for its effects and its really fast cooldown. I've played several times since the latest patch and nothing seems out of order.

I stated specially that the ability produces two “leaps”, not strikes. Kylo will strike so long as the ability is active, however, I am correct in that he only leaps twice.

yes, the video does show the animation issue and if video isn’t enough proof of an issue I don’t know what is. That example is what I have been experiencing and it’s clear from the animation error that something behind the scenes with the game mechanic is broken. It shouldn’t be doing that all the time. 

Perhaps someone on Xbox should contribute toward the discussion. When it comes to researching problems, proper and related data & experiences are what need to be evaluated. 

I do believe there is a platform contribution at play because although the bug report focuses on Kylo’s Frenzy there are a lot of other consistent gameplay anomalies that are occurring. 

What you experience and test on PC isn’t reflective of what those on Xbox can expect as a result. 

And to be more specific; yes; the 3rd strike IS supposed to break (not bypass) an opponents block and that’s not happening. It’s supposed to happen and it’s not happening on Xbox; hence why this report is correctly here. 

If you're separating leaps from strikes, then let's make things clear: Kylo is supposed to strike 3 times since they changed Frenzy from up to 7 strikes to only 3 with a damage increase to balance things out. In all my experiences, and also in your video evidence, he does strike 3 times. Leaps occur if he wants to strike a character which is not in range of a strike. If you manage to get an enemy away from kylo both between 1st and 2nd strikes and between 2nd and 3rd strikes, and kylo tried to target him from afar in the beginning, he'll leap 3 times. However if the target is within melee range, he'll leap 0 times. Leaps are connected to distance, while strikes are fixed and are always 3. This has been working as intended since the update which changed frenzy.

And about the last strike, not only we have no official info that it MUST break block (this is an assumption of it working consistently through hours, days, weeks, and months since the update that changed frenzy), but it also DOES that in your video evidence. The block breaking animation clearly happens in the lasts trike, it happens that the time it takes for your next strike (now a normal saber attack) to affect luke is more then the time Luke's block stays broken. Just test this with a shooter by your side and make him shoot while Luke plays the animation of block breaking, and you'll see the shots landing. This tactic has been employed by me and @RogueOneKenobi since launch, as he usually picks blaster heroes while I prefer saber heroes. Even before they removed the stagger produced by striking with a saber at a block, just by attacking a blocking character I opened a window where he could land shots on that very enemy.

If your video evidence shows anything, is that it feels unfair that a standing character may block Kylo's freny completely. But this is not a BUG, it's just bad game design, and I invite you once again to come to the main forum and share that there. Link it here so I may follow it. I don't think you're completely wrong in your opinions about how balanced or not Frenzy is, there are things I disagree, and things I agree. It's just that this doesn't seem to be a BUG at all, and by your evidence I can't see anything that slightly resembles a BUG.

@VetteC5RX 

However, because you insisted so much on this topic, I decided to keep checking Kylo in my latest test round and I found out that while Luke is able to block Kylo's frenzy completely, Anakin ISN'T. Anakin ALWAYS takes the 3rd hit if he blocks the prior 2 strikes.

As I only realised this in the end of my testing round, I didn't have time to test with all other saber characters, but this is now in my to-do list. Thanks for bringing awareness to Kylo's Frenzy, otherwise I wouldn't find this issue.

This may also not be a BUG, but when certain characters can completely block a move, while others can't, this is strange enough that it may be a BUG. I'll have to test Obi, Rey, and Yoda to see how they react, and eventually open a report just about this issue.