Can we get an update on cheating?

"Ultra;c-1932874" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1932834" wrote:

"Monel;c-1932822" wrote:
The problem with a program like that is there is no stopping it unless you find a way to block the program all together. All a cheater needs to do is create a new account after being banned and they can cheat their way right back to the top.

Adding defensive replays would stop the biggest part of it. While there could be subtle cheating line improving damage by 10% of something that people might not notice, it still means everything is right out in the open. Blatant cheating in PvP would disappear instantly.

I don't think defensive replays are a reasonable ask. You've got millions of players in Grand Arena, each doing multiple battles, from as low as 0 battles to 8+, some sending junk teams doing 0 damage so that one team can have a defensive score of 80 or something for reddit karma

Each video needs to be compressed and stored on the server and its very costly on space

You don’t have to store videos, you know. Numbers is enough. Using game engine all fight can be restored using game mechnics. It is very simple... it is turn-based game, y’know...
Like chess: e2-e4 etc.

"Bulldog1205;c-1932877" wrote:

"Ultra;c-1932874" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1932834" wrote:

"Monel;c-1932822" wrote:
The problem with a program like that is there is no stopping it unless you find a way to block the program all together. All a cheater needs to do is create a new account after being banned and they can cheat their way right back to the top.

Adding defensive replays would stop the biggest part of it. While there could be subtle cheating line improving damage by 10% of something that people might not notice, it still means everything is right out in the open. Blatant cheating in PvP would disappear instantly.

I don't think defensive replays are a reasonable ask. You've got millions of players in Grand Arena, each doing multiple battles, from as low as 0 battles to 8+, some sending junk teams doing 0 damage so that one team can have a defensive score of 80 or something for reddit karma

Each video needs to be compressed and stored on the server and its very costly on space

I’d settle for a text recap. Team used, damage done by characters on both sides, time elapsed, maybe total number of attacks/turns for each toon.

Thanks for exposing this and bringing up solutions to the problem. Anything is better then nothing, and Cg has provided nothing to really put a halt to what is happening. I think it may be more costly, but the other side is to take down ANYTHING pvp related, as it has the potential to just be exploited and cheated on.

"Bulldog1205;c-1932877" wrote:

"Ultra;c-1932874" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1932834" wrote:

"Monel;c-1932822" wrote:
The problem with a program like that is there is no stopping it unless you find a way to block the program all together. All a cheater needs to do is create a new account after being banned and they can cheat their way right back to the top.

Adding defensive replays would stop the biggest part of it. While there could be subtle cheating line improving damage by 10% of something that people might not notice, it still means everything is right out in the open. Blatant cheating in PvP would disappear instantly.

I don't think defensive replays are a reasonable ask. You've got millions of players in Grand Arena, each doing multiple battles, from as low as 0 battles to 8+, some sending junk teams doing 0 damage so that one team can have a defensive score of 80 or something for reddit karma

Each video needs to be compressed and stored on the server and its very costly on space

I’d settle for a text recap. Team used, damage done by characters on both sides, time elapsed, maybe total number of attacks/turns for each toon.

MSF has a feature where you can see the team used against your team in Alliance wars that could be easily adopted here. Even if multiple teams where used. It even has the health left after each battle. They need to do that here.

"Kyno;c-1932886" wrote:

"tj5270;c-1932882" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1932877" wrote:

"Ultra;c-1932874" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1932834" wrote:

"Monel;c-1932822" wrote:
The problem with a program like that is there is no stopping it unless you find a way to block the program all together. All a cheater needs to do is create a new account after being banned and they can cheat their way right back to the top.

Adding defensive replays would stop the biggest part of it. While there could be subtle cheating line improving damage by 10% of something that people might not notice, it still means everything is right out in the open. Blatant cheating in PvP would disappear instantly.

I don't think defensive replays are a reasonable ask. You've got millions of players in Grand Arena, each doing multiple battles, from as low as 0 battles to 8+, some sending junk teams doing 0 damage so that one team can have a defensive score of 80 or something for reddit karma

Each video needs to be compressed and stored on the server and its very costly on space

I’d settle for a text recap. Team used, damage done by characters on both sides, time elapsed, maybe total number of attacks/turns for each toon.

Thanks for exposing this and bringing up solutions to the problem. Anything is better then nothing, and Cg has provided nothing to really put a halt to what is happening. I think it may be more costly, but the other side is to take down ANYTHING pvp related, as it has the potential to just be exploited and cheated on.

That is absolutely not true. Let's leave the baseless accusations out of this.

It may not be true, but it is not a baseless accusation. Bulldog spent two months proving their automated tools don't work at all. That's basis for claiming that "they are doing nothing."

"StarSon;c-1932894" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1932886" wrote:

"tj5270;c-1932882" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1932877" wrote:

"Ultra;c-1932874" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1932834" wrote:

"Monel;c-1932822" wrote:
The problem with a program like that is there is no stopping it unless you find a way to block the program all together. All a cheater needs to do is create a new account after being banned and they can cheat their way right back to the top.

Adding defensive replays would stop the biggest part of it. While there could be subtle cheating line improving damage by 10% of something that people might not notice, it still means everything is right out in the open. Blatant cheating in PvP would disappear instantly.

I don't think defensive replays are a reasonable ask. You've got millions of players in Grand Arena, each doing multiple battles, from as low as 0 battles to 8+, some sending junk teams doing 0 damage so that one team can have a defensive score of 80 or something for reddit karma

Each video needs to be compressed and stored on the server and its very costly on space

I’d settle for a text recap. Team used, damage done by characters on both sides, time elapsed, maybe total number of attacks/turns for each toon.

Thanks for exposing this and bringing up solutions to the problem. Anything is better then nothing, and Cg has provided nothing to really put a halt to what is happening. I think it may be more costly, but the other side is to take down ANYTHING pvp related, as it has the potential to just be exploited and cheated on.

That is absolutely not true. Let's leave the baseless accusations out of this.

It may not be true, but it is not a baseless accusation. Bulldog spent two months proving their automated tools don't work at all. That's basis for claiming that "they are doing nothing."

It's more accurate to say that the actions they have taken have not had the desired impact of identifying and mitigating cheating in the game. Bulldog's experiment is proof positive that there are some fairly serious flaws in the anti-cheating solution implementation.

One could argue that there is more effort being put into eradicating the awareness of cheating than the actual cheating itself, but we can't really quantify that because we can't measure the level of effort that has been put into mitigating cheating. We can only measure the ineffectiveness of said effort.

"Kyno;c-1932886" wrote:

"tj5270;c-1932882" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1932877" wrote:

"Ultra;c-1932874" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1932834" wrote:

"Monel;c-1932822" wrote:
The problem with a program like that is there is no stopping it unless you find a way to block the program all together. All a cheater needs to do is create a new account after being banned and they can cheat their way right back to the top.

Adding defensive replays would stop the biggest part of it. While there could be subtle cheating line improving damage by 10% of something that people might not notice, it still means everything is right out in the open. Blatant cheating in PvP would disappear instantly.

I don't think defensive replays are a reasonable ask. You've got millions of players in Grand Arena, each doing multiple battles, from as low as 0 battles to 8+, some sending junk teams doing 0 damage so that one team can have a defensive score of 80 or something for reddit karma

Each video needs to be compressed and stored on the server and its very costly on space

I’d settle for a text recap. Team used, damage done by characters on both sides, time elapsed, maybe total number of attacks/turns for each toon.

Thanks for exposing this and bringing up solutions to the problem. Anything is better then nothing, and Cg has provided nothing to really put a halt to what is happening. I think it may be more costly, but the other side is to take down ANYTHING pvp related, as it has the potential to just be exploited and cheated on.

That is absolutely not true. Let's leave the baseless accusations out of this.

The statement, while a bit clumsy, is not baseless. Reworded as, "Cg has provided nothing player visible to really put a halt to what is happening." is true. They've made claims that they're doing stuff and things are better, sure. Those claims don't really hold much weight when the players aren't allowed to see behind the curtain.

Is all the secrecy really worth this level of disillusionment every time a new cheating scandal arises? I guess they think so. It seems many disagree and I'd bet if they ever polled on this it would be a large majority that disagree.

Committing to a simple battle log or replay would go a long way to soothing the unrest in this instance.

"StarSon;c-1932894" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1932886" wrote:

"tj5270;c-1932882" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1932877" wrote:

"Ultra;c-1932874" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1932834" wrote:

"Monel;c-1932822" wrote:
The problem with a program like that is there is no stopping it unless you find a way to block the program all together. All a cheater needs to do is create a new account after being banned and they can cheat their way right back to the top.

Adding defensive replays would stop the biggest part of it. While there could be subtle cheating line improving damage by 10% of something that people might not notice, it still means everything is right out in the open. Blatant cheating in PvP would disappear instantly.

I don't think defensive replays are a reasonable ask. You've got millions of players in Grand Arena, each doing multiple battles, from as low as 0 battles to 8+, some sending junk teams doing 0 damage so that one team can have a defensive score of 80 or something for reddit karma

Each video needs to be compressed and stored on the server and its very costly on space

I’d settle for a text recap. Team used, damage done by characters on both sides, time elapsed, maybe total number of attacks/turns for each toon.

Thanks for exposing this and bringing up solutions to the problem. Anything is better then nothing, and Cg has provided nothing to really put a halt to what is happening. I think it may be more costly, but the other side is to take down ANYTHING pvp related, as it has the potential to just be exploited and cheated on.

That is absolutely not true. Let's leave the baseless accusations out of this.

It may not be true, but it is not a baseless accusation. Bulldog spent two months proving their automated tools don't work at all. That's basis for claiming that "they are doing nothing."

That would only be true if they did nothing in that time, and also didnt try to implement the new tools, both of which happened, which means saying "they have done nothing" is not based on any facts.

We also dont know what that tool does or how automated or effective it is. If they caught 50% of the players doing this that is something.

If the tools is only to flag them so that the team can investigate and take action as the investigation process is completed, that is not nothing.

Either way during this exhibition we have seen players get banned.
------
Saying it's not enough is different than saying they have done nothing.

They can't catch anyone if they don't have the forensics in place to catch them. It's unclear what information is available to them so we're all just throwing darts in the dark at what their capabilities are. Be sure, we will not be told, because exposing their capabilities just invites different avenues for exploit.

The state of the art for storage at internet scale is more than capable enough to allow them to log enough information to recreate a match. As @Vinniarth pointed out, textual representations of the actions taken in game, along with the exact mod loadouts or stat sets is certainly feasible at this scale.

A more complicated but also highly possible action would be to re-evaluate the matches move by move using a non-graphical version of the in-game engine and flag any significant differences between expected outcomes vs. actual outcomes. Rules could be in place to flag any suspicious match results prior to this step to manage volume.

Many, many systems are built like this. There is nothing novel or unique about them; just a ticket on an agile board somewhere that needs to be prioritized ahead of something else. The player base's collective voice helps move this prioritization. The player base's collective spending does so even more effectively.

"Kyno;c-1932909" wrote:

"StarSon;c-1932894" wrote:

"Kyno;c-1932886" wrote:

"tj5270;c-1932882" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1932877" wrote:

"Ultra;c-1932874" wrote:

"Bulldog1205;c-1932834" wrote:

"Monel;c-1932822" wrote:
The problem with a program like that is there is no stopping it unless you find a way to block the program all together. All a cheater needs to do is create a new account after being banned and they can cheat their way right back to the top.

Adding defensive replays would stop the biggest part of it. While there could be subtle cheating line improving damage by 10% of something that people might not notice, it still means everything is right out in the open. Blatant cheating in PvP would disappear instantly.

I don't think defensive replays are a reasonable ask. You've got millions of players in Grand Arena, each doing multiple battles, from as low as 0 battles to 8+, some sending junk teams doing 0 damage so that one team can have a defensive score of 80 or something for reddit karma

Each video needs to be compressed and stored on the server and its very costly on space

I’d settle for a text recap. Team used, damage done by characters on both sides, time elapsed, maybe total number of attacks/turns for each toon.

Thanks for exposing this and bringing up solutions to the problem. Anything is better then nothing, and Cg has provided nothing to really put a halt to what is happening. I think it may be more costly, but the other side is to take down ANYTHING pvp related, as it has the potential to just be exploited and cheated on.

That is absolutely not true. Let's leave the baseless accusations out of this.

It may not be true, but it is not a baseless accusation. Bulldog spent two months proving their automated tools don't work at all. That's basis for claiming that "they are doing nothing."

and also didnt try to implement the new tools, both of which happened, which means saying "they have done nothing" is not based on any facts.

We actually have no idea if they did this or not. They said they did, and players have been given the standard week bans during the Exhibition, so sure, they aren't doing "nothing." What we do know, is that if they implemented an auto tool it doesn't work.

Honestly, based on their history of caring about cheating, I'm inclined to believe they never added anything to the game and still rely on player reports.

And McMole video was deleted too? Why? VIdeo didn't show how to cheat. It was just an eye opener for many of us. Probably that's why EA deleted it. It could cause players stop spending money.