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JohnnySteelAlph's avatar
JohnnySteelAlph
8 years ago

Chaze Breaks Tactical Part of Game - Don't Nerf, but Let's Learn some Lessons

Had to post this as I was inspired today by the fact that ... even winning vs. Chaze now is getting really monotonous. It's been fun killing Chaze, but the flow of the battle is awful and even beatin...
vCx-Redemption's avatar
vCx-Redemption
8 years ago
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"ImYourHuckleberry;c-1087639" wrote:
"Jedi_Reach_;c-1087594" wrote:
"hilikus;c-1082959" wrote:
"Dark_Light;c-1081575" wrote:

Reading comprehension -1


"dough;c-1082610" wrote:
"hilikus;c-1081663" wrote:
"dough;c-1081606" wrote:
oh great, another "can be beaten easily" automaton who makes the claim yet doesn't back it up with anything factual... Zzzzzz

define "easily" and cite these "many other teams.


Is that reall up for debate? No one is denying that except you. Just look it up on YouTube or here on the forum. I personally beat them consistently with Wiggs + lando + Boba + St han. But unfortunately i didn't take the time because I actually thought nobody cares about that.

So definition of easy: 80% success rate. Happy now?



nah, why don't *you* look it up on YT or the forums, i'm not your personal assistant and i'm not the one making spurious claims about "easily beaten" and "multiple teams."

Quick YT seatch, there you go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4nC2F-nXcw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOmNJ_BaU9Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ7IkubZiGg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZVN_ilC8nI

But I am sure they all dont count for some reason you will tell me soon.
Also before Zaul, Empire under Zader or EP with TFP and Shore was the meta.

"dough;c-1082610" wrote:
i just don't think you're getting anywhere near that (with STH no less) and if you were you wouldn't be foisting your claims off onto other players on YT or this forum.
What do you want me to do, guy? They are pretty easily beat with Boba and a fast ST Han. Ability Block on Baze, Taunt from Han, hammer on Baze and just chip him away with all those extra Turn Meter you are getting. Pretty solid strategy. By the time he is dead, Chirrut has a huge amount of buffs -> Execute from Boba and it is pretty much over. I did not make a recording of it so believe it or not. I can tell you though: I switched out ST Hand and Chaze in not because of other Chaze, but because that game breaking Zaul Abomination. Good luck facing him without Chaze.

"Dark_Light;c-1081575" wrote:
nobody's denying this except me? you've got 7 pages of posts that largely fly in the face of your assertions...
Read the first Post, man. The debate here is, it is not about if they are beatable or not but how they bring too much stuff to the table as a duo. And here I disagree. It should be all about if they are beatable without chaze and some teams or not that defines if they are game breaking or not. I know they are extremely strong and probably should never made that strong. But I say game Breaking is another level still.
You are indeed the only one who claims they are unbeatable without Chaze.

Hey, person who refuses to read all the other points addressed in this thread.

Beatable does not equal balance.


Hey person who doesn't pay attention to logic. Beatable means all your balance brownie points are really moot.


I guess that means the 96 Chicago bulls weren't as good as they were because they had the players they did and lost 10 games in the normal season

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players.","avatar":{"__ref":"AssociatedImage:{\"url\":\"https://forums.ea.com/t5/s/tghpe58374/images/bi0yMS1BMHBpQ3M?image-coordinates=0%2C0%2C300%2C300\"}"},"profileSettings":{"__typename":"ProfileSettings","language":null},"parent":{"__ref":"Category:category:star-wars-galaxy-of-heroes-en"},"ancestors":{"__typename":"CoreNodeConnection","edges":[{"__typename":"CoreNodeEdge","node":{"__ref":"Community:community:tghpe58374"}},{"__typename":"CoreNodeEdge","node":{"__ref":"Category:category:ea-forums-en"}},{"__typename":"CoreNodeEdge","node":{"__ref":"Category:category:star-wars-games-en"}},{"__typename":"CoreNodeEdge","node":{"__ref":"Category:category:star-wars-galaxy-of-heroes-en"}}]},"userContext":{"__typename":"NodeUserContext","canAddAttachments":true,"canUpdateNode":false,"canPostMessages":false,"isSubscribed":false},"boardPolicies":{"__typename":"BoardPolicies","canPublishArticleOnCreate":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.forums.policy_can_publish_on_create_workflow_action.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.forums.policy_can_publish_on_create_workflow_action.accessDenied","args":[]}}},"shortTitle":"SWGOH General Discussion","repliesProperties":{"__typename":"RepliesProperties","sortOrder":"PUBLISH_TIME","repliesFormat":"linear"},"topicsCount":80173,"messageActivity":{"__typename":"MessageActivity","corePropertyChangeTime":"2025-04-02T07:30:24.574-07:00"},"tagProperties":{"__typename":"TagNodeProperties","tagsEnabled":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":null}},"requireTags":false,"tagType":"PRESET_ONLY"},"User:user:161400":{"__typename":"User","id":"user:161400","uid":161400,"login":"JohnnySteelAlph","deleted":false,"avatar":{"__typename":"UserAvatar","url":"https://forums.ea.com/t5/s/tghpe58374/m_assets/avatars/default/avatar-3.svg?time=1721239524000"},"rank":null,"email":"","messagesCount":0,"biography":null,"topicsCount":0,"kudosReceivedCount":161,"kudosGivenCount":173,"kudosWeight":1,"registrationData":{"__typename":"RegistrationData","status":null,"registrationTime":"2015-11-29T09:14:38.000-08:00","confirmEmailStatus":null},"followersCount":null,"solutionsCount":0},"ForumTopicMessage:message:3541528":{"__typename":"ForumTopicMessage","uid":3541528,"subject":"Chaze Breaks Tactical Part of Game - Don't Nerf, but Let's Learn some Lessons","id":"message:3541528","revisionNum":1,"repliesCount":209,"author":{"__ref":"User:user:161400"},"depth":0,"hasGivenKudo":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:swgoh-general-discussion-en"},"conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3541528"},"readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3541528"},"body@stripHtml({\"truncateLength\":200})":"Had to post this as I was inspired today by the fact that ... even winning vs. Chaze now is getting really monotonous. It's been fun killing Chaze, but the flow of the battle is awful and even beatin...","body@stringLength":"3178","rawBody":"Had to post this as I was inspired today by the fact that ... even winning vs. Chaze now is getting really monotonous. It's been fun killing Chaze, but the flow of the battle is awful and even beating them now brings no joy. Don't get me wrong, I like all the turns in battles today as compared to the Poe days, but the constant taunts pulling focus fire, the foresight spam from GK, the heal / equalize from Chirrut bringing near dead characters to near full health requiring more attacks to kill, the constant counter attacks...it's just a bad fight.

The lesson part though comes in that they break the tactical game - that's the element of the game where have to choose characters to matchup properly with the opponent. I'll give a specific example comparing Troopers and using a good, but not the best, team to face in arena: Chaze + Wiggs + R2.

Now, facing this team you want the following:

1. Pre-taunt for the triple shot
2. Passive mid-round taunter to take the Chirrut bombs after Wiggs triple and the heavy single shot from Biggs and Wedge
3. Healer for the damage dealt out
4. Heavy damage attacker to actually kill stuff
5. An AOE enemy buff remover for the R2 smoke screen so you aren't pinned on Baze
6. Cleanse / ten up to remove the burn / stun and / or prevent burn / stun from R2

These are the tactical considerations you need to evaluate when putting a team together.

Now let's look at Troopers as an example and compare them to Chaze and what they do:

Snowtrooper: Satisfies (4) above
Shoretrooper: Satisfies (1) and (3) above ... and partially solves (2) with Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper: Along with Shore, kinda satisfied (2) above in that between the 2 you can have good mid-round taunt capability for damage cover
Deathtrooper: Satisfies (5) above as well as (4) with the deathmark
Veers: Satisfies (4) above with the assist call and contingently he handles (3) if you kill something

So between 5 characters, no one does 6, only generally each one has a role, maybe 2 or so at most - Shore is pretty balanced in that he has multiple skills, but is slow and also low damage, so he's a tactical tool with tradeoffs.

Now let's look at 1-6 above through the Chaze lens:

Baze: Handles (1) (2) and (5)
Chirrut: Handles (3) (4) and (6)

That's as clear an example as I can make on why a Chaze abomination shouldn't be introduced in to the game again. They break the actual \"game\" of GoH in that you don't have to think about constructing a team in any specific manner relative to your opponent. They actually outskill all 5 recently revamped troopers. Troopers should be a team they look to create more of - different skills, working together, needs tactical decisions to be made in order to matchup to the opponent's strength and weaknesses.

Again to reiterate, don't nerf Chaze - they are not unbeatable - but let's work on making this a game again that involves tradeoffs when selecting teams and heroes relative to your opponent. ","kudosSumWeight":1,"postTime":"2017-05-17T05:17:31.000-07:00","images":{"__typename":"AssociatedImageConnection","edges":[],"totalCount":0,"pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null}},"attachments":{"__typename":"AttachmentConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"tags":{"__typename":"TagConnection","pageInfo":{"__typename":"PageInfo","hasNextPage":false,"endCursor":null,"hasPreviousPage":false,"startCursor":null},"edges":[]},"timeToRead":3,"currentRevision":{"__ref":"Revision:revision:3541528_1"},"latestVersion":null,"metrics":{"__typename":"MessageMetrics","views":10264},"visibilityScope":"PUBLIC","canonicalUrl":null,"seoTitle":null,"seoDescription":null,"isEscalated":null,"placeholder":false,"originalMessageForPlaceholder":null,"messagePolicies":{"__typename":"MessagePolicies","canModerateSpamMessage":{"__typename":"PolicyResult","failureReason":{"__typename":"FailureReason","message":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","key":"error.lithium.policies.feature.moderation_spam.action.moderate_entity.allowed.accessDenied","args":[]}}},"archivalData":null,"customFields":[],"body":"Had to post this as I was inspired today by the fact that ... even winning vs. Chaze now is getting really monotonous. It's been fun killing Chaze, but the flow of the battle is awful and even beating them now brings no joy. Don't get me wrong, I like all the turns in battles today as compared to the Poe days, but the constant taunts pulling focus fire, the foresight spam from GK, the heal / equalize from Chirrut bringing near dead characters to near full health requiring more attacks to kill, the constant counter attacks...it's just a bad fight.

The lesson part though comes in that they break the tactical game - that's the element of the game where have to choose characters to matchup properly with the opponent. I'll give a specific example comparing Troopers and using a good, but not the best, team to face in arena: Chaze + Wiggs + R2.

Now, facing this team you want the following:

1. Pre-taunt for the triple shot
2. Passive mid-round taunter to take the Chirrut bombs after Wiggs triple and the heavy single shot from Biggs and Wedge
3. Healer for the damage dealt out
4. Heavy damage attacker to actually kill stuff
5. An AOE enemy buff remover for the R2 smoke screen so you aren't pinned on Baze
6. Cleanse / ten up to remove the burn / stun and / or prevent burn / stun from R2

These are the tactical considerations you need to evaluate when putting a team together.

Now let's look at Troopers as an example and compare them to Chaze and what they do:

Snowtrooper: Satisfies (4) above
Shoretrooper: Satisfies (1) and (3) above ... and partially solves (2) with Stormtrooper
Stormtrooper: Along with Shore, kinda satisfied (2) above in that between the 2 you can have good mid-round taunt capability for damage cover
Deathtrooper: Satisfies (5) above as well as (4) with the deathmark
Veers: Satisfies (4) above with the assist call and contingently he handles (3) if you kill something

So between 5 characters, no one does 6, only generally each one has a role, maybe 2 or so at most - Shore is pretty balanced in that he has multiple skills, but is slow and also low damage, so he's a tactical tool with tradeoffs.

Now let's look at 1-6 above through the Chaze lens:

Baze: Handles (1) (2) and (5)
Chirrut: Handles (3) (4) and (6)

That's as clear an example as I can make on why a Chaze abomination shouldn't be introduced in to the game again. They break the actual \"game\" of GoH in that you don't have to think about constructing a team in any specific manner relative to your opponent. They actually outskill all 5 recently revamped troopers. Troopers should be a team they look to create more of - different skills, working together, needs tactical decisions to be made in order to matchup to the opponent's strength and weaknesses.

Again to reiterate, don't nerf Chaze - they are not unbeatable - but let's work on making this a game again that involves tradeoffs when selecting teams and heroes relative to your opponent."},"Conversation:conversation:3541528":{"__typename":"Conversation","id":"conversation:3541528","solved":false,"topic":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3541528"},"lastPostingActivityTime":"2017-05-24T13:01:43.000-07:00","lastPostTime":"2017-05-24T13:01:43.000-07:00","unreadReplyCount":209,"isSubscribed":false},"ModerationData:moderation_data:3541528":{"__typename":"ModerationData","id":"moderation_data:3541528","status":"APPROVED","rejectReason":null,"isReportedAbuse":false,"rejectUser":null,"rejectTime":null,"rejectActorType":null},"Revision:revision:3541528_1":{"__typename":"Revision","id":"revision:3541528_1","lastEditTime":"2017-05-17T05:17:31.000-07:00"},"ForumReplyMessage:message:3541727":{"__typename":"ForumReplyMessage","id":"message:3541727","conversation":{"__ref":"Conversation:conversation:3541528"},"author":{"__ref":"User:user:155786"},"revisionNum":1,"uid":3541727,"depth":1,"hasGivenKudo":false,"subscribed":false,"board":{"__ref":"Forum:board:swgoh-general-discussion-en"},"subject":"Re: Chaze Breaks Tactical Part of Game - Don't Nerf, but Let's Learn some Lessons","readOnly":false,"editFrozen":false,"moderationData":{"__ref":"ModerationData:moderation_data:3541727"},"parent":{"__ref":"ForumTopicMessage:message:3541528"},"body":"
\"ImYourHuckleberry;c-1087639\" wrote:
\"Jedi_Reach_;c-1087594\" wrote:
\"hilikus;c-1082959\" wrote:
\"Dark_Light;c-1081575\" wrote:

Reading comprehension -1


\"dough;c-1082610\" wrote:
\"hilikus;c-1081663\" wrote:
\"dough;c-1081606\" wrote:
oh great, another \"can be beaten easily\" automaton who makes the claim yet doesn't back it up with anything factual... Zzzzzz

define \"easily\" and cite these \"many other teams.


Is that reall up for debate? No one is denying that except you. Just look it up on YouTube or here on the forum. I personally beat them consistently with Wiggs + lando + Boba + St han. But unfortunately i didn't take the time because I actually thought nobody cares about that.

So definition of easy: 80% success rate. Happy now?



nah, why don't *you* look it up on YT or the forums, i'm not your personal assistant and i'm not the one making spurious claims about \"easily beaten\" and \"multiple teams.\"

Quick YT seatch, there you go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4nC2F-nXcw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOmNJ_BaU9Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ7IkubZiGg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZVN_ilC8nI

But I am sure they all dont count for some reason you will tell me soon.
Also before Zaul, Empire under Zader or EP with TFP and Shore was the meta.

\"dough;c-1082610\" wrote:
i just don't think you're getting anywhere near that (with STH no less) and if you were you wouldn't be foisting your claims off onto other players on YT or this forum.
What do you want me to do, guy? They are pretty easily beat with Boba and a fast ST Han. Ability Block on Baze, Taunt from Han, hammer on Baze and just chip him away with all those extra Turn Meter you are getting. Pretty solid strategy. By the time he is dead, Chirrut has a huge amount of buffs -> Execute from Boba and it is pretty much over. I did not make a recording of it so believe it or not. I can tell you though: I switched out ST Hand and Chaze in not because of other Chaze, but because that game breaking Zaul Abomination. Good luck facing him without Chaze.

\"Dark_Light;c-1081575\" wrote:
nobody's denying this except me? you've got 7 pages of posts that largely fly in the face of your assertions...
Read the first Post, man. The debate here is, it is not about if they are beatable or not but how they bring too much stuff to the table as a duo. And here I disagree. It should be all about if they are beatable without chaze and some teams or not that defines if they are game breaking or not. I know they are extremely strong and probably should never made that strong. But I say game Breaking is another level still.
You are indeed the only one who claims they are unbeatable without Chaze.

Hey, person who refuses to read all the other points addressed in this thread.

Beatable does not equal balance.


Hey person who doesn't pay attention to logic. Beatable means all your balance brownie points are really moot.


I guess that means the 96 Chicago bulls weren't as good as they were because they had the players they did and lost 10 games in the normal season","body@stringLength":"3504","rawBody":"
\"ImYourHuckleberry;c-1087639\" wrote:
\"Jedi_Reach_;c-1087594\" wrote:
\"hilikus;c-1082959\" wrote:
\"Dark_Light;c-1081575\" wrote:

Reading comprehension -1


\"dough;c-1082610\" wrote:
\"hilikus;c-1081663\" wrote:
\"dough;c-1081606\" wrote:
oh great, another \"can be beaten easily\" automaton who makes the claim yet doesn't back it up with anything factual... Zzzzzz

define \"easily\" and cite these \"many other teams.


Is that reall up for debate? No one is denying that except you. Just look it up on YouTube or here on the forum. I personally beat them consistently with Wiggs + lando + Boba + St han. But unfortunately i didn't take the time because I actually thought nobody cares about that.

So definition of easy: 80% success rate. Happy now?



nah, why don't *you* look it up on YT or the forums, i'm not your personal assistant and i'm not the one making spurious claims about \"easily beaten\" and \"multiple teams.\"

Quick YT seatch, there you go:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e4nC2F-nXcw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOmNJ_BaU9Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZ7IkubZiGg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZVN_ilC8nI

But I am sure they all dont count for some reason you will tell me soon.
Also before Zaul, Empire under Zader or EP with TFP and Shore was the meta.

\"dough;c-1082610\" wrote:
i just don't think you're getting anywhere near that (with STH no less) and if you were you wouldn't be foisting your claims off onto other players on YT or this forum.
What do you want me to do, guy? They are pretty easily beat with Boba and a fast ST Han. Ability Block on Baze, Taunt from Han, hammer on Baze and just chip him away with all those extra Turn Meter you are getting. Pretty solid strategy. By the time he is dead, Chirrut has a huge amount of buffs -> Execute from Boba and it is pretty much over. I did not make a recording of it so believe it or not. I can tell you though: I switched out ST Hand and Chaze in not because of other Chaze, but because that game breaking Zaul Abomination. Good luck facing him without Chaze.

\"Dark_Light;c-1081575\" wrote:
nobody's denying this except me? you've got 7 pages of posts that largely fly in the face of your assertions...
Read the first Post, man. The debate here is, it is not about if they are beatable or not but how they bring too much stuff to the table as a duo. And here I disagree. It should be all about if they are beatable without chaze and some teams or not that defines if they are game breaking or not. I know they are extremely strong and probably should never made that strong. But I say game Breaking is another level still.
You are indeed the only one who claims they are unbeatable without Chaze.

Hey, person who refuses to read all the other points addressed in this thread.

Beatable does not equal balance.


Hey person who doesn't pay attention to logic. Beatable means all your balance brownie points are really moot.


I guess that means the 96 Chicago bulls weren't as good as they were because they had the players they did and lost 10 games in the normal season 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