Geonosian Spy Kit Changes [MEGA]

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1889943" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1889748" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1889656" wrote:

"NicWester;c-1889467" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1888893" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1888579" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1888540" wrote:

"cannonfodder_iv;c-1888343" wrote:
Yes, every debuff has the potential to be resisted, unless explicitly stated otherwise. Toons get modded for potency as a result. If the chance exists for a TM loop, it's best NOT to rely on "chance" to prevent that loop from happening. Best to just remove it from the game altogether. Everyone just needs to slow their roll about a rework to a minor character.

Can you define this more?

If the chance exists for a TM loop, it's best NOT to rely on "chance" to prevent that loop from happening. Best to just remove it from the game altogether.

Yoda gains 50% TM when attacking an enemy with over 50% hp (basically every attack since most characters have lots of protection before they even dip into their health pool). Revan calls assists, jolee calls assists, Hermit Yoda calls assists, bastilla calls assists. Plus master Yoda has an ability to gain 100% Tm and 75% Tm by himself.

Are you concerned that when matches start Revan will call Yoda (1) giving Yoda 100% Tm then Yoda (2&3) goes gaining 100 tm then giving evasion to everyone and gaining over 50% Tm. Jolee, or bastilla call Yoda (4) to attack and he is back at 100, Yoda (5) uses basic to gain 50% then jolee or bastilla call yoda to assist again (6), Yoda can attack (7,8) gaining 100 tm on buff steal special and over 50% spreading more evasion, Hermit Yoda calls Yoda to assist (9), Yoda is back at 100% Tm and on his 10th attack. Throughout all this the enemy team has not gained any tm because Yoda is going from 0 to 50 on basic then an ally with 1 speed less is taking him from 50 to 100.

CLS and 3po have a similar loop.

Ep and empire have a similar loop.

Ewoks with 3po have a similar loop.

There's loops all over this game and I think the main problem is mainly the inconsistency and arbitrary application of fixed to address loops.

At first it was were only fixing characters that had actual bugs with unintended interactions like Vader and tfp removing extra tm to solo the Rancor...

Then it expanded to characters who's abilities were not bugs, but the interaction was unintended like Nute and Jawa clearing haat excuse was they were all too low gear.

Then they fixed p3 of the sith raid a nd nerfed like 50 characters just in the raid.... This list was just too large to rework game wide so they had no choice here.

Then nightsisters, zombie, acolyte was just burn alive and trashed as a character so many changes all behind the excuse of ensuring p3 scores remain fair across the board. Finn lead was also ruined because it worked too well, no bugs it just worked too good.

Then hk47 and the OG Jawa Droids teams were gutted and Hk interaction with Droids was nerfed and he became a Droid Sith Lord and they said there was a 100% Tm gain loop potential with Droids.

Now we're into a really concerning space as a player of the game. We have moved from fixing bugged interactions, to making changes for balance even if there isn't a bug, finally were here making changes now because there could be a bug or an imbalance in the future.

Today the devs are at a point where they purposefully introduce characters like this new geo units that will intentionally break the games existing abilities causing a faction wide rework and retooling of many characters.

Okay they do have a right to make the changes.

players realize what they have today may change tomorrow... In a collection game that takes 6 months or more to build just 1 team I'd say this is bad.

It would help if devs gave some rules they follow or made new characters that could bring balance to the faction without needing reworks for all the longstanding characters. At least players would have trust in some guidelines. Many are just farming gear and not applying it because they are scared what they gear will become useless like sith assassin nerf.

I'm just pointing out that nerfing a character because of potential loops given perfect rng could be a net you don't wanna cast. It applies to every single unit in the game and means you would have to support nerfing anyone anytime for any hypothetical reason anyone can think of even making up characters that don't even exist to argue Droids can make a full loop. If this becomes accepted GMY usefulness will eventually be killed. His kit and cls kit is very good and rely on tm gain, something that is apparently being removed from the game bit by bit.

Nobody is concerned about an infinite loop with Yoda because hundreds of thousands of players using him for months in that team haven't found an infinite loop. That amounts to millions upon millions of testing hours too.

Someone already described in this thread a 100% surefire unbreakable loop where you put it on auto, and a Geo team could attack from here to infinity with the other team never moving. I'm very glad they are addressing that BEFORE people put a bunch of resources into making a cheese team that will then need to be nerfed.

Rather than design a new character to work properly your behind them designing obviously flawed new characters that make obvious loops and require nerfs and reworks to existing characters in order to release the new ones?

Look. Some characters from the early game were made when things were different. There was less of an emphasis on futureproofing the game and characters were made with little regard to what the game could become. You go back to 2015 and try telling people there’ll be four movies and we would get video game characters in here.

Games have to grow and evolve or else they die. Create a new mechanic (prepared) emphasize factional synergies (gone are the days when Royal Guard protected Rey while Luminara gave them all dodge and it was nuts, now are the days of full faction teams with one substitute), expand the ability count on characters (Mace with a basic and special is gone, long live a basic and minimum 2 specials).

And as the game grows you find yourself limited by what’s already been done. Arabian Nights cards in Magic: the Gathering were over-priced because it was assumed everyone had moxes and lotuses. Only once you free yourself from that mindset can you start creating newer, better stuff. Finn was too powerful. New Finn can’t do what the old one did, but can do other, better things and, more importantly, allow future Resistance characters to have exposes again.

Under this freed mindset we can expect nightsisters to get nerfed because future nightsisters can't stun with the # of existing stuns. future rebels can't even apply debuffs until cls lead is nerfed.

All these nerfs to Hk and Finn... Did we even get new Droids to work with what we lost? No. When who knows? Finn was changes for new resistance but did we get new resistance, no. until we do this is a empty hypothetical argument as a reason to nerf.

And the argument Finn needed to be nerfed to make way for a new resistance character that has multiple exposes is **** anyways on principle. they could just design resistance that only apply 1 expose with a mass ability block or buff immune. they don't HAVE TO make a new resistance character with aoe expose and a 0 turn cooldown on that special. If they really HAD TO make a kit like that put the cooldown to 9 or 19 no loop potential. Ez fix.

Proper new character design is better for the game than nerfing existing toons because of some imaginary future loop with characters that don't even exist. This happened to Hk, Finn, and now spy.

Why don't you show us what proper character design is in your game. If you design kits as well as you do straw men then it would be quite a success.

Better yet I can do it for this game. How about add when leader is separatist if your worried about ig88 lead exploiting tm.

Good enough design for you? Or is asking for a proper kit still strawman lol

First, I outlined a way (in great detail) that you could do pretty close to an infinite loop without IG88. So that doesn't fix anything.

Second, the Geos are still getting reworks in the near future. So what you're saying is that the Geo faction can never get a rework that adds any debuffs on basic at all because a 70% TM boost on debuffs is so sacred that it can never be touched even if there are a million cooler things they could do with the kits. All that is important is that nothing EVER, EVER change even if it was badly designed to begin with, and means that some factions are hamstrung forever.

Also you equate a few occasional tweaks to old, busted characters to constant overhauls of anything and everything at any moment. Nice fearmongering, and straw man building.