Geonosian Spy Kit Changes [MEGA]

"JacenRoe;c-1892818" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1891992" wrote:

"newershadow;c-1890084" wrote:
Most of the launch/near-launch character nerfs have been centered around TM gains, mainly because there weren’t nearly as many characters and leader abilities then. Even then, they have primarily been when characters gain/grant TM outside their turn, and in a way that can reliably be triggered.

Having said that, there aren’t a whole lot of other characters that fit these characteristics - Clone Sergeant and Geo Soldier are the main ones that I’d be concerned about, since both have the ability to gain 50% TM off of a basic attack, even when assisting. So overall, most characters were future-proofed fairly well, it’s just the minority that had design space issues.

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1889943" wrote:


Better yet I can do it for this game. How about add when leader is separatist if your worried about ig88 lead exploiting tm.

Good enough design for you? Or is asking for a proper kit still strawman lol

That doesn’t solve the original problem, where you can semi-reliably get loops under Geo Brood Alpha.

Add "assisting allies cant gain Turn Meter" to hive mind to fix that the semi reliable rng dependent loop you call the original problem that lead to this nerf.

My point is it's better to design the new characters around existing ones, rather than nerfing existing characters because of a interaction with something they are creating.

Otherwise anything we invest in is in danger of being nerfed therefore less investment by players which is bad for the game.

I fixed the two unsolvable issues with less than 5 min total thought it's not that hard to design a kit that works with existing units.

Except then they get no turn meter instead of 20% which is garbage. What they are proposing is actually way more TM overall. Although it isn't the assist that triggers the TM gain. It's the debuff. So the way you worded it they probably still would get TM. Thanks for introducing a bug. If it did work that way you just MASSIVELY nerfed Geo Soldier too, and I would lead the riots on the forum over it.

Everyone would riot (and has already) when expensive, or commonly used characters get a nerf. That isn't what's happening here. Worthless garbage we already own but don't use is being made better for free. Nobody cares that one thing gets slightly changed for the worse. Get over it.

There wouldn't be riots if the new character called geo soldier to assist but on that one move where everyone assists no one gains tm. Or limit tm gain to 25% max on that one move whatevers reasonable for the new unit to grant.

Not everything has to be an extreme, unless your 13 and going through puberty.

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1894848" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1892818" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1891992" wrote:

"newershadow;c-1890084" wrote:
Most of the launch/near-launch character nerfs have been centered around TM gains, mainly because there weren’t nearly as many characters and leader abilities then. Even then, they have primarily been when characters gain/grant TM outside their turn, and in a way that can reliably be triggered.

Having said that, there aren’t a whole lot of other characters that fit these characteristics - Clone Sergeant and Geo Soldier are the main ones that I’d be concerned about, since both have the ability to gain 50% TM off of a basic attack, even when assisting. So overall, most characters were future-proofed fairly well, it’s just the minority that had design space issues.

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1889943" wrote:


Better yet I can do it for this game. How about add when leader is separatist if your worried about ig88 lead exploiting tm.

Good enough design for you? Or is asking for a proper kit still strawman lol

That doesn’t solve the original problem, where you can semi-reliably get loops under Geo Brood Alpha.

Add "assisting allies cant gain Turn Meter" to hive mind to fix that the semi reliable rng dependent loop you call the original problem that lead to this nerf.

My point is it's better to design the new characters around existing ones, rather than nerfing existing characters because of a interaction with something they are creating.

Otherwise anything we invest in is in danger of being nerfed therefore less investment by players which is bad for the game.

I fixed the two unsolvable issues with less than 5 min total thought it's not that hard to design a kit that works with existing units.

Except then they get no turn meter instead of 20% which is garbage. What they are proposing is actually way more TM overall. Although it isn't the assist that triggers the TM gain. It's the debuff. So the way you worded it they probably still would get TM. Thanks for introducing a bug. If it did work that way you just MASSIVELY nerfed Geo Soldier too, and I would lead the riots on the forum over it.

Everyone would riot (and has already) when expensive, or commonly used characters get a nerf. That isn't what's happening here. Worthless garbage we already own but don't use is being made better for free. Nobody cares that one thing gets slightly changed for the worse. Get over it.

There wouldn't be riots if the new character called geo soldier to assist but on that one move where everyone assists no one gains tm. Or limit tm gain to 25% max on that one move whatevers reasonable for the new unit to grant.

Not everything has to be an extreme, unless your 13 and going through puberty.

Now you're changing characters. I thought that old characters were so sacred that they should never be touched and the entire game should just wrap around them no matter what. You don't want them changed but you propose alternative changes. So if it's ok for you to change them then you're OK with changes. You're just arguing about the specifics of the change. So all your other griping was nonsense that we can ignore including the puberty thing. Nobody asked for anything extreme. 70% TM was extreme. That was reduced. If you're still making a big deal over that then why call others an adolescent?

"JacenRoe;c-1894892" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1894848" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1892818" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1891992" wrote:

"newershadow;c-1890084" wrote:
Most of the launch/near-launch character nerfs have been centered around TM gains, mainly because there weren’t nearly as many characters and leader abilities then. Even then, they have primarily been when characters gain/grant TM outside their turn, and in a way that can reliably be triggered.

Having said that, there aren’t a whole lot of other characters that fit these characteristics - Clone Sergeant and Geo Soldier are the main ones that I’d be concerned about, since both have the ability to gain 50% TM off of a basic attack, even when assisting. So overall, most characters were future-proofed fairly well, it’s just the minority that had design space issues.

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1889943" wrote:


Better yet I can do it for this game. How about add when leader is separatist if your worried about ig88 lead exploiting tm.

Good enough design for you? Or is asking for a proper kit still strawman lol

That doesn’t solve the original problem, where you can semi-reliably get loops under Geo Brood Alpha.

Add "assisting allies cant gain Turn Meter" to hive mind to fix that the semi reliable rng dependent loop you call the original problem that lead to this nerf.

My point is it's better to design the new characters around existing ones, rather than nerfing existing characters because of a interaction with something they are creating.

Otherwise anything we invest in is in danger of being nerfed therefore less investment by players which is bad for the game.

I fixed the two unsolvable issues with less than 5 min total thought it's not that hard to design a kit that works with existing units.

Except then they get no turn meter instead of 20% which is garbage. What they are proposing is actually way more TM overall. Although it isn't the assist that triggers the TM gain. It's the debuff. So the way you worded it they probably still would get TM. Thanks for introducing a bug. If it did work that way you just MASSIVELY nerfed Geo Soldier too, and I would lead the riots on the forum over it.

Everyone would riot (and has already) when expensive, or commonly used characters get a nerf. That isn't what's happening here. Worthless garbage we already own but don't use is being made better for free. Nobody cares that one thing gets slightly changed for the worse. Get over it.

There wouldn't be riots if the new character called geo soldier to assist but on that one move where everyone assists no one gains tm. Or limit tm gain to 25% max on that one move whatevers reasonable for the new unit to grant.

Not everything has to be an extreme, unless your 13 and going through puberty.

Now you're changing characters. I thought that old characters were so sacred that they should never be touched and the entire game should just wrap around them no matter what. You don't want them changed but you propose alternative changes. So if it's ok for you to change them then you're OK with changes. You're just arguing about the specifics of the change. So all your other griping was nonsense that we can ignore including the puberty thing. Nobody asked for anything extreme. 70% TM was extreme. That was reduced. If you're still making a big deal over that then why call others an adolescent?

What's wrong with you? I never suggested changing geo soldier lol get a grip on reality tough guy.

I suggested limiting the tm gain on the new ability of the new character. Is it that difficult for you to understand?

There's ways of designing new characters to work with existing ones. All you have to do is think a little bit, I know it's hard to do for some people.

"JacenRoe;c-1895433" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1895353" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1894892" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1894848" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1892818" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1891992" wrote:

"newershadow;c-1890084" wrote:
Most of the launch/near-launch character nerfs have been centered around TM gains, mainly because there weren’t nearly as many characters and leader abilities then. Even then, they have primarily been when characters gain/grant TM outside their turn, and in a way that can reliably be triggered.

Having said that, there aren’t a whole lot of other characters that fit these characteristics - Clone Sergeant and Geo Soldier are the main ones that I’d be concerned about, since both have the ability to gain 50% TM off of a basic attack, even when assisting. So overall, most characters were future-proofed fairly well, it’s just the minority that had design space issues.

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1889943" wrote:


Better yet I can do it for this game. How about add when leader is separatist if your worried about ig88 lead exploiting tm.

Good enough design for you? Or is asking for a proper kit still strawman lol

That doesn’t solve the original problem, where you can semi-reliably get loops under Geo Brood Alpha.

Add "assisting allies cant gain Turn Meter" to hive mind to fix that the semi reliable rng dependent loop you call the original problem that lead to this nerf.

My point is it's better to design the new characters around existing ones, rather than nerfing existing characters because of a interaction with something they are creating.

Otherwise anything we invest in is in danger of being nerfed therefore less investment by players which is bad for the game.

I fixed the two unsolvable issues with less than 5 min total thought it's not that hard to design a kit that works with existing units.

Except then they get no turn meter instead of 20% which is garbage. What they are proposing is actually way more TM overall. Although it isn't the assist that triggers the TM gain. It's the debuff. So the way you worded it they probably still would get TM. Thanks for introducing a bug. If it did work that way you just MASSIVELY nerfed Geo Soldier too, and I would lead the riots on the forum over it.

Everyone would riot (and has already) when expensive, or commonly used characters get a nerf. That isn't what's happening here. Worthless garbage we already own but don't use is being made better for free. Nobody cares that one thing gets slightly changed for the worse. Get over it.

There wouldn't be riots if the new character called geo soldier to assist but on that one move where everyone assists no one gains tm. Or limit tm gain to 25% max on that one move whatevers reasonable for the new unit to grant.

Not everything has to be an extreme, unless your 13 and going through puberty.

Now you're changing characters. I thought that old characters were so sacred that they should never be touched and the entire game should just wrap around them no matter what. You don't want them changed but you propose alternative changes. So if it's ok for you to change them then you're OK with changes. You're just arguing about the specifics of the change. So all your other griping was nonsense that we can ignore including the puberty thing. Nobody asked for anything extreme. 70% TM was extreme. That was reduced. If you're still making a big deal over that then why call others an adolescent?

I suggested limiting the tm gain...

That's what the devs did. But you didn't like that. So you keep coming up with terrible ideas about how to do the same thing but in a boring way that no significant number of people support for arbitrary reasons nobody cares about. I'm glad you aren't a dev. Also you can't make a point with throwing out insults.

Keep slanging them insults tough guy, it makes you cool on this forum.

"JacenRoe;c-1895768" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1895457" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1895433" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1895353" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1894892" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1894848" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1892818" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1891992" wrote:

"newershadow;c-1890084" wrote:
Most of the launch/near-launch character nerfs have been centered around TM gains, mainly because there weren’t nearly as many characters and leader abilities then. Even then, they have primarily been when characters gain/grant TM outside their turn, and in a way that can reliably be triggered.

Having said that, there aren’t a whole lot of other characters that fit these characteristics - Clone Sergeant and Geo Soldier are the main ones that I’d be concerned about, since both have the ability to gain 50% TM off of a basic attack, even when assisting. So overall, most characters were future-proofed fairly well, it’s just the minority that had design space issues.

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1889943" wrote:


Better yet I can do it for this game. How about add when leader is separatist if your worried about ig88 lead exploiting tm.

Good enough design for you? Or is asking for a proper kit still strawman lol

That doesn’t solve the original problem, where you can semi-reliably get loops under Geo Brood Alpha.

Add "assisting allies cant gain Turn Meter" to hive mind to fix that the semi reliable rng dependent loop you call the original problem that lead to this nerf.

My point is it's better to design the new characters around existing ones, rather than nerfing existing characters because of a interaction with something they are creating.

Otherwise anything we invest in is in danger of being nerfed therefore less investment by players which is bad for the game.

I fixed the two unsolvable issues with less than 5 min total thought it's not that hard to design a kit that works with existing units.

Except then they get no turn meter instead of 20% which is garbage. What they are proposing is actually way more TM overall. Although it isn't the assist that triggers the TM gain. It's the debuff. So the way you worded it they probably still would get TM. Thanks for introducing a bug. If it did work that way you just MASSIVELY nerfed Geo Soldier too, and I would lead the riots on the forum over it.

Everyone would riot (and has already) when expensive, or commonly used characters get a nerf. That isn't what's happening here. Worthless garbage we already own but don't use is being made better for free. Nobody cares that one thing gets slightly changed for the worse. Get over it.

There wouldn't be riots if the new character called geo soldier to assist but on that one move where everyone assists no one gains tm. Or limit tm gain to 25% max on that one move whatevers reasonable for the new unit to grant.

Not everything has to be an extreme, unless your 13 and going through puberty.

Now you're changing characters. I thought that old characters were so sacred that they should never be touched and the entire game should just wrap around them no matter what. You don't want them changed but you propose alternative changes. So if it's ok for you to change them then you're OK with changes. You're just arguing about the specifics of the change. So all your other griping was nonsense that we can ignore including the puberty thing. Nobody asked for anything extreme. 70% TM was extreme. That was reduced. If you're still making a big deal over that then why call others an adolescent?

I suggested limiting the tm gain...

That's what the devs did. But you didn't like that. So you keep coming up with terrible ideas about how to do the same thing but in a boring way that no significant number of people support for arbitrary reasons nobody cares about. I'm glad you aren't a dev. Also you can't make a point with throwing out insults.

Keep slanging them insults tough guy, it makes you cool on this forum.

How did I insult you?

Not everything has to be an extreme, unless your 13 and going through puberty.
What's wrong with you? lol get a grip on reality tough guy. Is it that difficult for you to understand?
All you have to do is think a little bit, I know it's hard to do for some people.

Keep slanging them insults tough guy, it makes you cool on this forum.
--
Heh.. Stop feeding that snowflake troll, it's pointless Jacen.

"Noxhaven;c-1895866" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1895768" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1895457" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1895433" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1895353" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1894892" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1894848" wrote:

"JacenRoe;c-1892818" wrote:

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1891992" wrote:

"newershadow;c-1890084" wrote:
Most of the launch/near-launch character nerfs have been centered around TM gains, mainly because there weren’t nearly as many characters and leader abilities then. Even then, they have primarily been when characters gain/grant TM outside their turn, and in a way that can reliably be triggered.

Having said that, there aren’t a whole lot of other characters that fit these characteristics - Clone Sergeant and Geo Soldier are the main ones that I’d be concerned about, since both have the ability to gain 50% TM off of a basic attack, even when assisting. So overall, most characters were future-proofed fairly well, it’s just the minority that had design space issues.

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1889943" wrote:


Better yet I can do it for this game. How about add when leader is separatist if your worried about ig88 lead exploiting tm.

Good enough design for you? Or is asking for a proper kit still strawman lol

That doesn’t solve the original problem, where you can semi-reliably get loops under Geo Brood Alpha.

Add "assisting allies cant gain Turn Meter" to hive mind to fix that the semi reliable rng dependent loop you call the original problem that lead to this nerf.

My point is it's better to design the new characters around existing ones, rather than nerfing existing characters because of a interaction with something they are creating.

Otherwise anything we invest in is in danger of being nerfed therefore less investment by players which is bad for the game.

I fixed the two unsolvable issues with less than 5 min total thought it's not that hard to design a kit that works with existing units.

Except then they get no turn meter instead of 20% which is garbage. What they are proposing is actually way more TM overall. Although it isn't the assist that triggers the TM gain. It's the debuff. So the way you worded it they probably still would get TM. Thanks for introducing a bug. If it did work that way you just MASSIVELY nerfed Geo Soldier too, and I would lead the riots on the forum over it.

Everyone would riot (and has already) when expensive, or commonly used characters get a nerf. That isn't what's happening here. Worthless garbage we already own but don't use is being made better for free. Nobody cares that one thing gets slightly changed for the worse. Get over it.

There wouldn't be riots if the new character called geo soldier to assist but on that one move where everyone assists no one gains tm. Or limit tm gain to 25% max on that one move whatevers reasonable for the new unit to grant.

Not everything has to be an extreme, unless your 13 and going through puberty.

Now you're changing characters. I thought that old characters were so sacred that they should never be touched and the entire game should just wrap around them no matter what. You don't want them changed but you propose alternative changes. So if it's ok for you to change them then you're OK with changes. You're just arguing about the specifics of the change. So all your other griping was nonsense that we can ignore including the puberty thing. Nobody asked for anything extreme. 70% TM was extreme. That was reduced. If you're still making a big deal over that then why call others an adolescent?

I suggested limiting the tm gain...

That's what the devs did. But you didn't like that. So you keep coming up with terrible ideas about how to do the same thing but in a boring way that no significant number of people support for arbitrary reasons nobody cares about. I'm glad you aren't a dev. Also you can't make a point with throwing out insults.

Keep slanging them insults tough guy, it makes you cool on this forum.

How did I insult you?

Not everything has to be an extreme, unless your 13 and going through puberty.
What's wrong with you? lol get a grip on reality tough guy. Is it that difficult for you to understand?
All you have to do is think a little bit, I know it's hard to do for some people.

Keep slanging them insults tough guy, it makes you cool on this forum.
--
Heh.. Stop feeding that snowflake troll, it's pointless Jacen.

I'm just enjoying the sport. But yeah it's funny. He insults me repeatedly, and complains about being insulted.

Look you have a right to disagree with me about why changing existing kits to accommodate new characters is a bad thing.

Sure not a lot of people care when spy is nerfed. F spy right?

.. if this was Yoda being changed to accommodate a new jedi. Would you support CG nerfing Yoda as much as you support them nerfing spy?

No you wouldn't, and many players would be outraged. I beleive this is fairly obvious but you guys can keep acting like no one understands the concept I'm pointing out and call me a troll I DGAF.

When they nerf Yoda, remember me...

"BobcatSkywalker;c-1900877" wrote:
Look you have a right to disagree with me about why changing existing kits to accommodate new characters is a bad thing.

Sure not a lot of people care when spy is nerfed. F spy right?

.. if this was Yoda being changed to accommodate a new jedi. Would you support CG nerfing Yoda as much as you support them nerfing spy?

No you wouldn't, and many players would be outraged. I beleive this is fairly obvious but you guys can keep acting like no one understands the concept I'm pointing out and call me a troll I DGAF.

When they nerf Yoda, remember me...

Spy is a generic nobody, and a change was made to allow him to be in an amazing team instead of him continuing to be worthless garbage. Have you seen him with Geo Brood Alpha? They got a MASSIVE buff.

And Yoda is amazing BECAUSE they change characters. Most good characters are new, or have been reworked. Most useless junk collecting dust at the bottom of our rosters are launch characters that haven't been touched. They aren't just randomly nerfing already good characters for no reason so they can laugh and our misery, and we don't all need to band together to draw a line in the sand here before everyone is nerfed.

I understand your point perfectly well. It's just invalid. They reworked dozens of characters for the better verses a small number of nerfs. They try to avoid nerfs because people scream, and quit, and demand refunds if it's big or to a well liked and frequently used character. That isn't good for business. I trust that CG likes money. As long that is true the imaginary dystopia you're going on about won't happen. And they will keep tweaking characters as they have dozens of times. When a trash character I already have becomes better (as is the case now) I will be happy about it.

I haven't called you a troll. I do find it odd though that you get bent out of shape about character change when that is a constant and integral part of this game.