Mandalorian S2:E5 Chat (SPOILERS)
Episode 5 is out. Let's talk about it.
Forum Discussion
I'm sympathetic to anyone's critiques because each person's experience of the show is their own, but that doesn't mean I agree with those critiques or feel the same way about an episode. In this particular case, I want to address the criticisms of @avihas
Any show has room for improvement, so it's anodyne to say that a show "could have been better". For me the first thing that I noticed that didn't work for me was Ahsoka's hair or whatever you want to call it. There are different possible interpretations of what that thing on her head is, but for me it either moves too much or not enough. There isn't really an interpretation of her head piece that works for the amount of movement they choose. It just looks weird to me in a way that it didn't in the animated series where she was previously portrayed. Aside from that, I liked this episode quite a bit. All of which is to say, if avihas position was , "The show was great, but I noticed several things that could make it even better," I'd be fine with that. It seems to me though that avihas' position is somewhat different & somewhat more negative. (To be clear, avihas isn't saying the episode was bad, but was still "disappointing".)
So let's look at avihas' points:
1. This seems to be a compliment, and I largely agree. You don't want to burden a show like this with too much exposition.
2. I'm with avihas in that some of Ahsoka's proposed solution seemed odd when presented in dialog. But it didn't remain odd for me. This is another situation in which exposition would have hurt the show. Ahsoka is worried about excessive attachment & being unable to displace it. So she gives the pair a quest, which is to say that she gives the pair time. And then she wants Baby Yoda to choose for himself. The strength of BY's call for a teacher seems to me to be dependent on the strength of his commitment to being taught. Ahsoka doesn't believe that she can teach a potential Jedi (and since the only model she has for a previous mentor is someone who fell to the dark side, it's reasonable to worry that she might not have the wisdom necessary to guide BY through the temptation of the dark side). Instead of insisting that his powers fade, she is giving BY that one more chance to decide his own fate. He'll need the strength to convince a teacher he's teachable, and that seems a fitting emotional journey for him to pursue during the physical journey to Tython. On top of all that, if she makes it too obvious what his emotional journey needs to be, that might make it harder, not easier. He really does have to choose for himself if he's going to be able to take to his jedi training & resist dark side temptation. Too much direction from Ahsoka burdens that freedom of choice. We need him to choose from his own commitment, not merely go along with what other people seem to think is right. So I'm actually fine with all this. Not because it seemed obvious or natural in the dialog, but because if I don't want too much exposition about Thrawn in the middle of the episode, then I can't complain that Ahsoka doesn't halt the action to spend 5 minutes explaining her reasoning for the Tython journey either. One prefers minimal exposition or one doesn't. If they're going with minimal exposition, then this was the way to handle this scene. The need to keep BY's choice unencumbered adds additional plot-internal reasoning for Ahsoka to provide minimal explanation.
3. I can't remember if Ahsoka said she "needed" Mando's help or just said that she could use it. Either way, I think avihas' critique has merit. It has more merit if Ahsoka actually used the stronger framing of "need". That said, I think she didn't need Mando's help to win, but did need it to protect the villagers. Being able to sneak around the battlefield and take out Morgan Elsbeth's warriors is one thing. Being able to control all those warriors in a way that leaves them no opportunity to inflict retribution on the villagers while Ahsoka is busy doing her ninja stuff is very different. She could rationalize losing a few villagers in the attack, since the remaining villagers would probably live longer, and certainly would live happier lives. So she could have been prepared to attack no matter what, but been grateful for the help protecting villagers when it became available. Still, like avihas, this is a place where I think a little more explicit dialog would have been helpful. Even if they didn't want to reveal the plan in advance, it could have been mentioned when Ahsoka was handing over the spear. Mando says he didn't earn it, Ahsoka says his job wasn't to kill anyone, but just protect the villagers while she was busy, and he did. That would have wrapped it all up nicely. I think that was a place things could have improved.
4. Meh. I think this is personal preference. I'm okay with how it was done, but I understand how others might not feel the same.
5. As for how Ahsoka should have had an easier time defeating Morgan Elsbeth, I was surprised that she lost a lightsaber in the fight, but not that the fight took some effort. As others have said, trying to defeat someone thoroughly enough that they'll see their situation as hopeless & give up information is a different task than trying to kill someone. One quick stroke that takes off a hand or takes away the spear might be luck. But allowing ME to go through all of her moves and see them all fail (or all but one in this case) is how you convince someone through the language of combat that resistance is futile. If Ahsoka was seeking to take not life or hand or weapon, but instead to take all hope, that required a different form of combat, a patient form. I'm fine with this.
I had my own critique of Episode 9 (AKA episode 1, season 2) that I know not a whole lot of people found convincing, So if you, avihas, aren't convinced by me here I'm not surprised. But still, I disagree with at least a couple of your points. Yet thinking through your critique helped me see the episode differently & I appreciate it just as much if not more, so thank you for your comment.
Any show has room for improvement, so it's anodyne to say that a show "could have been better". For me the first thing that I noticed that didn't work for me was Ahsoka's hair or whatever you want to call it. There are different possible interpretations of what that thing on her head is, but for me it either moves too much or not enough. There isn't really an interpretation of her head piece that works for the amount of movement they choose. It just looks weird to me in a way that it didn't in the animated series where she was previously portrayed. Aside from that, I liked this episode quite a bit. All of which is to say, if avihas position was , "The show was great, but I noticed several things that could make it even better," I'd be fine with that. It seems to me though that avihas' position is somewhat different & somewhat more negative. (To be clear, avihas isn't saying the episode was bad, but was still "disappointing".)
So let's look at avihas' points:
1. This seems to be a compliment, and I largely agree. You don't want to burden a show like this with too much exposition.
2. I'm with avihas in that some of Ahsoka's proposed solution seemed odd when presented in dialog. But it didn't remain odd for me. This is another situation in which exposition would have hurt the show. Ahsoka is worried about excessive attachment & being unable to displace it. So she gives the pair a quest, which is to say that she gives the pair time. And then she wants Baby Yoda to choose for himself. The strength of BY's call for a teacher seems to me to be dependent on the strength of his commitment to being taught. Ahsoka doesn't believe that she can teach a potential Jedi (and since the only model she has for a previous mentor is someone who fell to the dark side, it's reasonable to worry that she might not have the wisdom necessary to guide BY through the temptation of the dark side). Instead of insisting that his powers fade, she is giving BY that one more chance to decide his own fate. He'll need the strength to convince a teacher he's teachable, and that seems a fitting emotional journey for him to pursue during the physical journey to Tython. On top of all that, if she makes it too obvious what his emotional journey needs to be, that might make it harder, not easier. He really does have to choose for himself if he's going to be able to take to his jedi training & resist dark side temptation. Too much direction from Ahsoka burdens that freedom of choice. We need him to choose from his own commitment, not merely go along with what other people seem to think is right. So I'm actually fine with all this. Not because it seemed obvious or natural in the dialog, but because if I don't want too much exposition about Thrawn in the middle of the episode, then I can't complain that Ahsoka doesn't halt the action to spend 5 minutes explaining her reasoning for the Tython journey either. One prefers minimal exposition or one doesn't. If they're going with minimal exposition, then this was the way to handle this scene. The need to keep BY's choice unencumbered adds additional plot-internal reasoning for Ahsoka to provide minimal explanation.
3. I can't remember if Ahsoka said she "needed" Mando's help or just said that she could use it. Either way, I think avihas' critique has merit. It has more merit if Ahsoka actually used the stronger framing of "need". That said, I think she didn't need Mando's help to win, but did need it to protect the villagers. Being able to sneak around the battlefield and take out Morgan Elsbeth's warriors is one thing. Being able to control all those warriors in a way that leaves them no opportunity to inflict retribution on the villagers while Ahsoka is busy doing her ninja stuff is very different. She could rationalize losing a few villagers in the attack, since the remaining villagers would probably live longer, and certainly would live happier lives. So she could have been prepared to attack no matter what, but been grateful for the help protecting villagers when it became available. Still, like avihas, this is a place where I think a little more explicit dialog would have been helpful. Even if they didn't want to reveal the plan in advance, it could have been mentioned when Ahsoka was handing over the spear. Mando says he didn't earn it, Ahsoka says his job wasn't to kill anyone, but just protect the villagers while she was busy, and he did. That would have wrapped it all up nicely. I think that was a place things could have improved.
4. Meh. I think this is personal preference. I'm okay with how it was done, but I understand how others might not feel the same.
5. As for how Ahsoka should have had an easier time defeating Morgan Elsbeth, I was surprised that she lost a lightsaber in the fight, but not that the fight took some effort. As others have said, trying to defeat someone thoroughly enough that they'll see their situation as hopeless & give up information is a different task than trying to kill someone. One quick stroke that takes off a hand or takes away the spear might be luck. But allowing ME to go through all of her moves and see them all fail (or all but one in this case) is how you convince someone through the language of combat that resistance is futile. If Ahsoka was seeking to take not life or hand or weapon, but instead to take all hope, that required a different form of combat, a patient form. I'm fine with this.
I had my own critique of Episode 9 (AKA episode 1, season 2) that I know not a whole lot of people found convincing, So if you, avihas, aren't convinced by me here I'm not surprised. But still, I disagree with at least a couple of your points. Yet thinking through your critique helped me see the episode differently & I appreciate it just as much if not more, so thank you for your comment.
