Forum Discussion
71 Replies
"Naecabon;490879" wrote:
"jeremyj26;490869" wrote:
Seems like the easiest fix is a proper cooldown. Also, you can't pretend to be heading up the cause for reform, Nae, when you abuse it as much as any. Comes off as hypocritical.
Easiest, yes, but it doesn't solve as much as you'd think. They have to juggle a cooldown that attempts to mitigate collateral damage from alt hopping and guild hopping while also keeping that cooldown small enough to have the least amount of incidental impact on people that get booted from a guild or want to just switch normally. It's a difficult thing to balance. As a result, it probably can't/won't be as long as it needs to be to be effective.
So so so so many guilds guild hop that the topic means nothing to me at this point. If you aren't guild hopping you're just shooting yourself in the foot. Altfactorying was clearly something everyone got **** over so we've since stopped doing it nearly as much while we transition to an alt guild instead like everyone else. But make no mistake - plenty of guilds, including many people in this forum, guild hop and merc it up. So we're desensitized to the criticism at this point.
The difference is I don't see many of those people cooking up solid solutions to the problem. They just casually participate and say nothing otherwise.
Not all guilds in the top 20 have used guildhopping or alts. My guild has had static membership with the exception of taking one or two new people when members have quit the game. I doubt that we are the only ones. I don't begrudge those who used guildhopping before June 10th, because there seemed to be tacit approval of the practice. It is unfortunate that the announced changes were not implemented immediately."Naecabon;490879" wrote:
"jeremyj26;490869" wrote:
Seems like the easiest fix is a proper cooldown. Also, you can't pretend to be heading up the cause for reform, Nae, when you abuse it as much as any. Comes off as hypocritical.
Easiest, yes, but it doesn't solve as much as you'd think. They have to juggle a cooldown that attempts to mitigate collateral damage from alt hopping and guild hopping while also keeping that cooldown small enough to have the least amount of incidental impact on people that get booted from a guild or want to just switch normally. It's a difficult thing to balance. As a result, it probably can't/won't be as long as it needs to be to be effective.
So so so so many guilds guild hop that the topic means nothing to me at this point. If you aren't guild hopping you're just shooting yourself in the foot. Altfactorying was clearly something everyone got **** over so we've since stopped doing it nearly as much while we transition to an alt guild instead like everyone else. But make no mistake - plenty of guilds, including many people in this forum, guild hop and merc it up. So we're desensitized to the criticism at this point.
The difference is I don't see many of those people cooking up solid solutions to the problem. They just casually participate and say nothing otherwise.
I would like to see the cooldown at 24 hours, personally. The cooldown is not going to hurt the individual. The being kicked is what hurts the individual. I don't see what benefit it would be for him(the kicked player) to be able to instantly go back into another guild.- There may be no need to even make any changes to the program. Just start banning whoever is found alt farming. That should solve the problem pronto.
It's like sockpuppets. You can't really stop people from creating sockpuppets (using IP addresses, etc. have workarounds). Just ban the sockpuppets as they arise along with the source. "Naecabon;490896" wrote:
"jeremyj26;490893" wrote:
"Naecabon;490879" wrote:
"jeremyj26;490869" wrote:
Seems like the easiest fix is a proper cooldown. Also, you can't pretend to be heading up the cause for reform, Nae, when you abuse it as much as any. Comes off as hypocritical.
Easiest, yes, but it doesn't solve as much as you'd think. They have to juggle a cooldown that attempts to mitigate collateral damage from alt hopping and guild hopping while also keeping that cooldown small enough to have the least amount of incidental impact on people that get booted from a guild or want to just switch normally. It's a difficult thing to balance. As a result, it probably can't/won't be as long as it needs to be to be effective.
So so so so many guilds guild hop that the topic means nothing to me at this point. If you aren't guild hopping you're just shooting yourself in the foot. Altfactorying was clearly something everyone got **** over so we've since stopped doing it nearly as much while we transition to an alt guild instead like everyone else. But make no mistake - plenty of guilds, including many people in this forum, guild hop and merc it up. So we're desensitized to the criticism at this point.
The difference is I don't see many of those people cooking up solid solutions to the problem. They just casually participate and say nothing otherwise.
I would like to see the cooldown at 24 hours, personally. The cooldown is not going to hurt the individual. The being kicked is what hurts the individual. I don't see what benefit it would be for him(the kicked player) to be able to instantly go back into another guild.
A 24 hour cooldown solves nothing. Alt guild hopping still exists.
Take all your alts, fill a guild with them, save up coins. Get 150K + an open raid, switch out of your one guild to that guild, raid 3-4 times. Move all your alts over to your main guild and keep getting 30K/day in the meantime while you're not there.
Switch back to main guild after 24 hours, continue on like normal. What did the 24 hour cooldown solve?
No amount of cooldown will fix that. In fact, you could have multiple alts guilds, each stocked with 150k raid currency. Maybe a stiffer penalty on returning to your original guild? Make the cooldown way longer than just leaving or getting kicked."cheetah2114;490887" wrote:
"Mol_Eliza_99999;490882" wrote:
"cheetah2114;490870" wrote:
"Naecabon;490846" wrote:
"cheetah2114;490838" wrote:
"Naecabon;490820" wrote:
The TLDR of the "fix" that this game needs is this:
Completely revamp the Guild and Raid system so that Guilds no longer require the Guild itself to "save up" the Guild Coins needed, but instead make Guild Coins a personal currency that individuals acquire and spend themselves to enter an opened raid.
How it would work is an officer would open the raid "for free," and individuals would spend 1200 of their OWN Guild Coins to enter the raid themselves. This means instead of many people pooling together coins to open the raid (meaning alts have power) it's individuals entering on their own. This kills both alt guilds and alt rotating entirely.
It also has a ton of other perks.
- Now if you miss a raid you still have your 1200 and you could potentially raid in another guild with some friends to catch up. This is HEALTHY guild hopping that promotes a good community.
- Now individuals are responsible for their 600/600 a day and if they mess it up, tough luck! You're only hurting yourself and now the guild doesn't have to baby you or suffer for your mess ups.
- Now guilds could run multiple raids and divide up people within their 50/50 roster if they have the roster strength to complete raids using less than 50 people. Strong enough to do two 25/50 raids? How about five 10/50 raids? maybe a 10 / 20 / 20 set of three. Whatever works for you! The point is, no one likes competing on the ONE leaderboard in a raid for rewards and by allowing us to run multiple split up raids at no additional cost, it actually helps in maintaining a higher minimum finish for people. Stronger guilds could, say, guarantee no one finished below #25. This is a huge improvement to the current system.
This change is THE change. This is how you fix this game on multiple levels all at once. Anything less is sub par. But, again, it seems the freemium nature of the game may not allow for such a stellar change to take place, regardless of how many improvements it offers. I digress.
You clearly agree there is raid exploiting occurring and yet your solution was to participate in it. Your and your guild have no integrity and CG should not listen to you. Go back to congress where you clearly work.
Where did I ever say it was an exploit? It's just a system that desperately needs improvement.
Is there actually some part of that solution you disagree with? How is your response logical in any way? This is why we can't have nice things.
You don't understand, I don't care what your proposal is. If your guild wasn't exploiting the game, then yes, in your position as top guild, I would look into your ideas. Instead right now you are equal with EASB... all at your own doing.
He said they've stopped doing it. I admit I came here to complain about it, but he explained that they'vehad accumulated guild coins from past farming. Now they're spending it which makes sense.
But they haven't stopped. Instinct team two just passed us for top three today. They lie through their teeth.
If both guilds were doing it before June 10th announcement, they both should be on equal points, right? 10 raids before announcement and 4-5 after = that's 3000 pts. Am I missing something?"Naecabon;490886" wrote:
"Mol_Eliza_99999;490881" wrote:
Guys, rather than bad-mouthing top guilds on Leaderboard, shouldn't you actually thank them for making the problem so obvious by posting high points on Leaderboard?
As @Naecabon correctly points out, there are more extreme examples that go unnoticed to general public and devs. We see 3000 pts and all say "whoa, let's lynch them" for doing 3 raids more than us but we don't realize that there are players who have done 30 raids more.
People don't consider that or care. They say "abuse is abuse!" and try to pin them up as equal. Which is fine - we obviously knew the lashing out would be intense as a result of jumping ahead, we just thought more people would see it for what it is and not use the backwards logic on the subject that they typically do. And, incidentally, we actually thought a ton of guilds would be doing this anyway. Surprise surprise when they didn't - and then we found out why... they were just fixated on guild hopping and spamming out tons more raids instead. Which, makes sense. This method was probably less efficient? So in a way we messed up. We should have played it the way EASB played it. Whoops!
Every single post crying out over it as an exploit and expecting any sort of punishment on the subject is just wasting time and will accomplish nothing. We know this and plenty of other guilds know this which is why so many are engaged in guild hopping right now - the devs came out and gave it the "okay" in the meantime and we all know it'll be changed in the near future so we're on a limited clock here. You're either accepting of what's in front of you and doing it or you're screaming over a situation that already has an expiration date and not taking action while you can.
Just wait - all the people that didn't bother guild hopping will shift their mob focus to "Now you can't guild hop and all those people that did have extra stuff we'll never have!" similar to the precrafting argument once this is changed and goes away. Once they realize nothing is going to happen to anyone and that this only benefited those that participated, they'll get even madder and try pushing even harder for some kind of compensation over it. This is all super predictable.
Said the exploiter who lost to a guild of people working together and sacrificing rewards so that one could do it. Thanks for ruining the game, i hope you never lose again."Mol_Eliza_99999;490912" wrote:
"cheetah2114;490887" wrote:
"Mol_Eliza_99999;490882" wrote:
"cheetah2114;490870" wrote:
"Naecabon;490846" wrote:
"cheetah2114;490838" wrote:
"Naecabon;490820" wrote:
The TLDR of the "fix" that this game needs is this:
Completely revamp the Guild and Raid system so that Guilds no longer require the Guild itself to "save up" the Guild Coins needed, but instead make Guild Coins a personal currency that individuals acquire and spend themselves to enter an opened raid.
How it would work is an officer would open the raid "for free," and individuals would spend 1200 of their OWN Guild Coins to enter the raid themselves. This means instead of many people pooling together coins to open the raid (meaning alts have power) it's individuals entering on their own. This kills both alt guilds and alt rotating entirely.
It also has a ton of other perks.
- Now if you miss a raid you still have your 1200 and you could potentially raid in another guild with some friends to catch up. This is HEALTHY guild hopping that promotes a good community.
- Now individuals are responsible for their 600/600 a day and if they mess it up, tough luck! You're only hurting yourself and now the guild doesn't have to baby you or suffer for your mess ups.
- Now guilds could run multiple raids and divide up people within their 50/50 roster if they have the roster strength to complete raids using less than 50 people. Strong enough to do two 25/50 raids? How about five 10/50 raids? maybe a 10 / 20 / 20 set of three. Whatever works for you! The point is, no one likes competing on the ONE leaderboard in a raid for rewards and by allowing us to run multiple split up raids at no additional cost, it actually helps in maintaining a higher minimum finish for people. Stronger guilds could, say, guarantee no one finished below #25. This is a huge improvement to the current system.
This change is THE change. This is how you fix this game on multiple levels all at once. Anything less is sub par. But, again, it seems the freemium nature of the game may not allow for such a stellar change to take place, regardless of how many improvements it offers. I digress.
You clearly agree there is raid exploiting occurring and yet your solution was to participate in it. Your and your guild have no integrity and CG should not listen to you. Go back to congress where you clearly work.
Where did I ever say it was an exploit? It's just a system that desperately needs improvement.
Is there actually some part of that solution you disagree with? How is your response logical in any way? This is why we can't have nice things.
You don't understand, I don't care what your proposal is. If your guild wasn't exploiting the game, then yes, in your position as top guild, I would look into your ideas. Instead right now you are equal with EASB... all at your own doing.
He said they've stopped doing it. I admit I came here to complain about it, but he explained that they'vehad accumulated guild coins from past farming. Now they're spending it which makes sense.
But they haven't stopped. Instinct team two just passed us for top three today. They lie through their teeth.
If both guilds were doing it before June 10th announcement, they both should be on equal points, right? 10 raids before announcement and 4-5 after = that's 3000 pts. Am I missing something?
Instinct team two was over 1000 behind team 1 at the tenth. They have gained on them 200 every 4 or so days. stockpiling wont help you gain this late in the month.- So TI is a few raids ahead on the leaderboard, everyone goes crazy. Some guys in EASB were at 55 raids completed last week and no one cares?
"shampoo;490925" wrote:
So TI is a few raids ahead on the leaderboard, everyone goes crazy. Some guys in EASB were at 55 raids completed last week and no one cares?
We care about both. EASB needs to be punished. TI is acting like they did us a favor by cheating. Thats going to get you a bad reaction.- Obvious one sided poll. The so called abusers won't be punished but there will be some adjustments that you won't think are sufficient.
By the way, you should blame the poorly designed system, not people taking advantage of it. They have every right to.
