Forum Discussion
71 Replies
"Naecabon;490920" wrote:
"jeremyj26;490911" wrote:
"Naecabon;490896" wrote:
"jeremyj26;490893" wrote:
"Naecabon;490879" wrote:
"jeremyj26;490869" wrote:
Seems like the easiest fix is a proper cooldown. Also, you can't pretend to be heading up the cause for reform, Nae, when you abuse it as much as any. Comes off as hypocritical.
Easiest, yes, but it doesn't solve as much as you'd think. They have to juggle a cooldown that attempts to mitigate collateral damage from alt hopping and guild hopping while also keeping that cooldown small enough to have the least amount of incidental impact on people that get booted from a guild or want to just switch normally. It's a difficult thing to balance. As a result, it probably can't/won't be as long as it needs to be to be effective.
So so so so many guilds guild hop that the topic means nothing to me at this point. If you aren't guild hopping you're just shooting yourself in the foot. Altfactorying was clearly something everyone got **** over so we've since stopped doing it nearly as much while we transition to an alt guild instead like everyone else. But make no mistake - plenty of guilds, including many people in this forum, guild hop and merc it up. So we're desensitized to the criticism at this point.
The difference is I don't see many of those people cooking up solid solutions to the problem. They just casually participate and say nothing otherwise.
I would like to see the cooldown at 24 hours, personally. The cooldown is not going to hurt the individual. The being kicked is what hurts the individual. I don't see what benefit it would be for him(the kicked player) to be able to instantly go back into another guild.
A 24 hour cooldown solves nothing. Alt guild hopping still exists.
Take all your alts, fill a guild with them, save up coins. Get 150K + an open raid, switch out of your one guild to that guild, raid 3-4 times. Move all your alts over to your main guild and keep getting 30K/day in the meantime while you're not there.
Switch back to main guild after 24 hours, continue on like normal. What did the 24 hour cooldown solve?
No amount of cooldown will fix that.
And therein lies the problem.
To my second point. You want to stop alt farming/guild hopping without harming those in the guild wilds, right? So, a heavy cooldown for those that try to go back to their original guild."Naecabon;490918" wrote:
"GeorgeRules;490915" wrote:
"Naecabon;490886" wrote:
"Mol_Eliza_99999;490881" wrote:
Guys, rather than bad-mouthing top guilds on Leaderboard, shouldn't you actually thank them for making the problem so obvious by posting high points on Leaderboard?
As @Naecabon correctly points out, there are more extreme examples that go unnoticed to general public and devs. We see 3000 pts and all say "whoa, let's lynch them" for doing 3 raids more than us but we don't realize that there are players who have done 30 raids more.
People don't consider that or care. They say "abuse is abuse!" and try to pin them up as equal. Which is fine - we obviously knew the lashing out would be intense as a result of jumping ahead, we just thought more people would see it for what it is and not use the backwards logic on the subject that they typically do. And, incidentally, we actually thought a ton of guilds would be doing this anyway. Surprise surprise when they didn't - and then we found out why... they were just fixated on guild hopping and spamming out tons more raids instead. Which, makes sense. This method was probably less efficient? So in a way we messed up. We should have played it the way EASB played it. Whoops!
Every single post crying out over it as an exploit and expecting any sort of punishment on the subject is just wasting time and will accomplish nothing. We know this and plenty of other guilds know this which is why so many are engaged in guild hopping right now - the devs came out and gave it the "okay" in the meantime and we all know it'll be changed in the near future so we're on a limited clock here. You're either accepting of what's in front of you and doing it or you're screaming over a situation that already has an expiration date and not taking action while you can.
Just wait - all the people that didn't bother guild hopping will shift their mob focus to "Now you can't guild hop and all those people that did have extra stuff we'll never have!" similar to the precrafting argument once this is changed and goes away. Once they realize nothing is going to happen to anyone and that this only benefited those that participated, they'll get even madder and try pushing even harder for some kind of compensation over it. This is all super predictable.
Said the exploiter who lost to a guild of people working together and sacrificing rewards so that one could do it.
I'm not entirely sure I understand. Who sacrificed rewards in your example? Why do you assume all of the EASB guilds are a full 50/50? If they're 49/50 and rotated one person through for the shards then technically no one lost anything, right?
Which was called fair game Nae, your response was to screw the game for everyone because you got beat. You cant sit there and honestly expect people to believe that all guilds in top 50 are doing this. There are a handfull of people. 200-400 tops who are doing alt farming. The fact you sit here saying we will be moaning about this in a few months should set the alarm bells off right away for the devs and who has been at the center of the topic since day one? Which guilds are visably doing it the most? Guild hopping and alt farming are seperate things. Both should be punished for causing this headache and annoyance to the rest of us.- Or just give everyone 5 raid tokens with their daily rewards. 10 tokens for a heroic 8 for tier 6 etc... There are many fixes nae. Still doesnt excuse it from happening.
"Naecabon;490943" wrote:
"jeremyj26;490933" wrote:
"Naecabon;490920" wrote:
"jeremyj26;490911" wrote:
"Naecabon;490896" wrote:
"jeremyj26;490893" wrote:
"Naecabon;490879" wrote:
"jeremyj26;490869" wrote:
Seems like the easiest fix is a proper cooldown. Also, you can't pretend to be heading up the cause for reform, Nae, when you abuse it as much as any. Comes off as hypocritical.
Easiest, yes, but it doesn't solve as much as you'd think. They have to juggle a cooldown that attempts to mitigate collateral damage from alt hopping and guild hopping while also keeping that cooldown small enough to have the least amount of incidental impact on people that get booted from a guild or want to just switch normally. It's a difficult thing to balance. As a result, it probably can't/won't be as long as it needs to be to be effective.
So so so so many guilds guild hop that the topic means nothing to me at this point. If you aren't guild hopping you're just shooting yourself in the foot. Altfactorying was clearly something everyone got **** over so we've since stopped doing it nearly as much while we transition to an alt guild instead like everyone else. But make no mistake - plenty of guilds, including many people in this forum, guild hop and merc it up. So we're desensitized to the criticism at this point.
The difference is I don't see many of those people cooking up solid solutions to the problem. They just casually participate and say nothing otherwise.
I would like to see the cooldown at 24 hours, personally. The cooldown is not going to hurt the individual. The being kicked is what hurts the individual. I don't see what benefit it would be for him(the kicked player) to be able to instantly go back into another guild.
A 24 hour cooldown solves nothing. Alt guild hopping still exists.
Take all your alts, fill a guild with them, save up coins. Get 150K + an open raid, switch out of your one guild to that guild, raid 3-4 times. Move all your alts over to your main guild and keep getting 30K/day in the meantime while you're not there.
Switch back to main guild after 24 hours, continue on like normal. What did the 24 hour cooldown solve?
No amount of cooldown will fix that.
And therein lies the problem.
To my second point. You want to stop alt farming/guild hopping without harming those in the guild wilds, right? So, a heavy cooldown for those that try to go back to their original guild.
So then you just abandon guilds each time and make new ones. If all you want is more raids you just abandon the concept of the leaderboard entirely, like EASB.
I don't think any self-respecting guild would do that en masse. I think the individual raid currency has some potential.- Not really simplified. Its a token system. lets say they could cap it out at 20 max tokens. think about what that would mean.
"Naecabon;490913" wrote:
You could, but that's more work for them and probably difficult to track. And also difficult to prove.
Not difficult to prove or track. How did everyone know that TI was using alt farming? It's not just because you told them, but because they noticed an anomaly, i.e., your rate of heroic completions is much higher than the rest because of alt farming. A ceiling on the rate of heroic completions should be enough of a trigger. In fact, they should allow people to test that ceiling, because it's a great way of preemptively eliminating those guilds who are susceptible to using exploits."Naecabon;490976" wrote:
"GeorgeRules;490954" wrote:
Not really simplified. Its a token system. lets say they could cap it out at 20 max tokens. think about what that would mean.
600 a day with 1200 to enter or 5 a day with 10 to enter is literally the same thing, would change nothing.
The cap should be slightly higher too to account for individual activity being more important now. I think the cap should match a weekly amount of potential maximum - right now I think the guild cap of 150K is too low. I think it should be 240K. You can save up 2.5x with a 30K cap right now but you can accumulate 3.5x raid worth in a week, so a 4x raid worth cap would mean you could schedule all your stuff on one day (if you wanted) for really easy scheduling.
But the token system eliminates the need for all to be collecting 600 cap as intended. Its no surprise you want the cap increasing. Thanks for your thoughts and suggestions on how to let you win even more, heres one for you, stop exploiting, lose with dignity.- No it isnt the same, if you get lets say 7 raid tokens for completing daily activities thats different to collecting 600 energy spent. That basically says as long as you do daily quests you can raid every 2 days if your guild has currency, it would be tied to your account. 14 coins for tier 7, 12 for 6 Etc. Cap it at 35 coins means every 4 days you can participate in 2 heroics. maximum in 7 day period would be 3.5 tier 7 raids. Unless you stockpiled then maximum would be 6 heroic raids in a week.
- It isnt the same, you obviously dont understand.
"GeorgeRules;490997" wrote:
No it isnt the same, if you get lets say 7 raid tokens for completing daily activities thats different to collecting 600 energy spent. That basically says as long as you do daily quests you can raid every 2 days if your guild has currency, it would be tied to your account. 14 coins for tier 7, 12 for 6 Etc. Cap it at 35 coins means every 4 days you can participate in 2 heroics. maximum in 7 day period would be 3.5 tier 7 raids. Unless you stockpiled then maximum would be 6 heroic raids in a week.
What it means is that you dont have to collect 600 to raid, just do your dailies.
