Arena mods question

"Metsuga;c-1264533" wrote:

"Woodroward;c-1263983" wrote:

"Huatimus;c-1263974" wrote:

"Woodroward;c-1263957" wrote:
Crit Damage is better than speed for a lot of characters.

It isn't that hard to get 80 speed from primaries and secondaries, which means that 200 speed is kind of a baseline speed in arena.

At 200 speed that someone's base speed is 120. A speed set would give 12 speed.

12 speed is roughly 1/16 of that toon's total speed.

Assuming you use a crit damage triangle no matter what, a crit damage set will take you from 186% crit damage to 216% crit damage, a 5/31 increase in damage overall (pretty close to 1/6).

Now critting isn't guaranteed so we need to take crit chance into account. In order to determine the breakpoint we'll make an equation:
5/31X=1/16
x= 38.75/100 or 38.75% Crit Chance

So a character will do more damage with a crit damage set than a speed set once their crit chance breaks 38.75%.

Now this is assuming they are a 120 speed character with 80 speed from mods. The higher the base speed the character has, the more speed the speed set will give them, likewise the lower the speed from mods, the higher the % increase will be from the speed set.

So my first example was kind of a comparison based on what I would call common base speeds and mod speeds, So let's make an extreme example of a scenario that maximizes the speed set's usefulness:

TFP has a base speed of 170. Let's assume he only has a speed arrow so is only getting 30 speed from mods and is a 200 speed overall.
The speed set will give him 17 speed, which is an increase of 1/11 (rounded up, it's actually closer to 1/12)
So we get the formula:

5/31x = 1/11 which works out to 56.36% crit

So what does this tell us? That most characters will do better damage with a crit damage set than a speed set at around 40% crit, and that all characters will do better damage with a crit damage set than a speed set at 57% crit.

And for a final example, let's minimize the speed set's effectiveness:

Let's pick a toon with an 89 base speed and 175 speed from mods (max not counting set bonus as far as I am aware). That's 8 speed from that speed set. 8 is roughly 1/33 of the 264 speed the guy has from base and primary/secondary speeds.

5/31x = 1/33 which works out to 18.78% crit.

So if you have uber speed mods, there's practically no character that would do better with a speed set than a Crit damage set.

Your Maths as sound as it may be does not take into account the actual effects of going first. If my R2 is 1 speed faster than yours and stun yours first, how much damage do you think your R2 is doing? If my CLS goes first and removes 100% TM from your CLS, does it matter if I'm doing 20% less damage? Or if my Thrawn fractures first, or DN increase Cooldown first? The topic at hand now is Arena mods. If you're looking at maximising damage from mods, that is a lot more applicable for Raids.

You are absolutely correct that it ignores first turn priority. Personally, I have found that even if my first turn goes completely 100% wrong, I can still come back. I don't think going first is quite the priority/advantage it used to be. It's big, but if it takes you 3 turns longer to kill me than it does for me to kill you I still win, even if you steal my first turn and get one more turn than me besides that due to your speed (which is all the speed set COULD get you, a 2 turn advantage).

If we were talking about speed in general vs other secondaries, then yes, but as far as the speed set goes in arena... the crit damage set is still usually better.

Not necessarily. Especially if your target has crit immunity. But arena has alot if rng going so either way, high speed or high dmg/average speed. Both will work just fine.

It's true there are exceptions. I'd say the higher up in arena you climb and the older your shard is, the more the value of the crit damage set rises. (basically because the value of ~15 speed decreases as your shard matures due to more high speed secondaries.

Perhaps a better way to put it would have been: Going first is usually a much bigger advantage for the person than the AI. In low level or unmatured arena, a speed set carries a very large value, but as your shard matures, it will slowly lose it's value compared to a crit damge set... which is ironic considering it's usually one of the last sets you get.

Again, the whole gist of my math was based around damage dealers. Members meant to fill other roles should be modded according to their kit.