Asajj Ventress

@Train

Partially disagree with your conclusion MasterSeedy. The offense bonus from mods is applied BEFORE the unique kicks in. Therefore ...

Thanks for the correction, Train! That does indeed make a significant difference!

And you're right, if they're going to be evening out in the long run with raids (or very nearly evening out, as your math tells us) then secondaries are more important and when secondaries are fairly close, go with Offense Set Bonus for the temporary advantage at the beginning of the fight.

Happy to bust out the math anytime. :)
I will make one amendment to what I said. At ludicrous numbers of defeats, even the small % difference between the two results in some increased damage for the CD set. At 3500 offense, it’s around 100 more damage per hit at 10 defeats, around 700 more per hit at 100 defeats. That does add up over time for raids.

Assuming 100% CC:
X = Offense without set bonus
Y = Number of defeats
CD-SET_DMG=X*(1+.15Y)*2.22
OF-SET_DMG=1.15X*(1+.15Y)*1.92

Simplifying and taking the ratio:
OF-SET_DMG / CD-SET_DMG = (2.208+.3312*Y) / (2.22+.333*Y)

@Y=000, Ratio=.99459
@Y=050, Ratio=.99459
@Y=500, Ratio=.99459
Ratio remains unchanged even if you make Y a million.

As to the 2 piece set, I agree that’s more complicated. For PVP under MT lead, potency could be a good choice (for stun on basic). A high potency NS squad that keeps stun locking everyone can be a pain to deal with. Her base potency is so low and it’s only 50% stun chance, so I wouldn’t use it under her own lead though. Also agree that potency not as good for (her role in) raids. I like the health suggestion since she also gains 15% max health on defeats. Possibly tenacity. I don’t think CC is bad for lower gear either (natural CC under 40%). If you have G12+ or relics, it’s much less useful as has already been explained.

"Train;c-2089856" wrote:
Happy to bust out the math anytime. :)

OF-SET_DMG=1.15X*(1+.15Y)*1.92

First, offence set definitely NOT multiplies ALL the damage. It's not multiplies flat offense bonuses, for example. Second, why do you think that set bonus is multiplicative with Rampage? Why 1.15(1+.15Y) but not (1+.15+.15Y)? For example, Offense Up is also percentage offence buff but it's definitely NOT multiplied by Rampage, it's very easy to see in NS-Anakin HSTR runs where Asajj damage on later stages is not visibly increased if she takes Offence Up buff from Anakin's special.

@Hortus:

Second, why do you think that set bonus is multiplicative with Rampage? Why 1.15(1+.15Y) but not (1+.15+.15Y)?

This is the math that I did, and it does indeed come out very differently. @Train explained that Rampage's boost is to the Offense that Ventress starts the encounter with. I'm not clear where Train got that info (or I wouldn't have done the calculation my/your way the first time), but it seems legit to me. In fact, the very fact that the two options (CD set & Offense set) track each other closely under Train's assumptions but Offense sets are clearly inferior under my assumptions makes it incredibly unlikely that the game would recommend Offense sets under my assumptions. Since the game does recommend Offense sets, that makes me think that Train's method is much more likely to be correct than my method, even without finding any clear statement from CG (or examining the code itself) confirming that 100%.

So i'm going with Train being right on this one.

"Hortus;c-2090074" wrote:

First, offence set definitely NOT multiplies ALL the damage. It's not multiplies flat offense bonuses, for example. Second, why do you think that set bonus is multiplicative with Rampage? Why 1.15(1+.15Y) but not (1+.15+.15Y)? For example, Offense Up is also percentage offence buff but it's definitely NOT multiplied by Rampage, it's very easy to see in NS-Anakin HSTR runs where Asajj damage on later stages is not visibly increased if she takes Offence Up buff from Anakin's special.

I wrote a longer post, but it mysteriously disappeared when I tried to edit it and I don't want to re-type it all. I don't disagree with any of your points.
To your first point, yes having other offense bonuses on mods (whether percent or flat) would not be multiplied by the set bonus and do slightly shift the benefit towards CD, but not drastically. I stand by my recommendation: pick the set with the better secondaries. For raids that rely on a lot of defeats to boost Asaaj damage, CD is the better choice in the long run.
As to the second part, the short answer is that it's my understanding that mods are not the same as in-battle effects. My understanding and experience is that mods are loaded in at the start of battle as part of your 'initial' stats. In battle effects (offense up, health down, uniques, leadership, etc.) are computed based on these 'initial' stats which include the contribution from mods. I thought CG had posted semi-recently that this is how mod stats are applied, but I could not find it doing a brief search. Would be a good Q&A question to get a definitive answer.

@Hortus
@MasterSeedy
Just ran a test using a character with a big in game buff: Vandor Chewbacca who provides himself 80% more Max health with his unique. Conveniently he also has an attack based on max health so we can get some feedback on how much is health has increased.

Method A: Calculating his max health with mod benefits being added to in-battle bonuses (the way MasterSeedy had originally calculated) he would have 48,327 health.
Method B: Calculating his max health with mod benefits applied before in-battle bonuses (the way I suggested) he would have 56,302 health.

His special ability does damage based on 10% of his max health (based on SWGOH.GG). I have no CD on VC, so 150% CD. I did his special attack based on max health while he had 'prepared' (which does double damage) and hits twice.

Damaged Observed on Critical Hit (per hit): 16,129
Method A Critical Hit no defense (per hit): 10% * 48327 * 200% * 150% = 14,498
Method B Critical Hit no defense (per hit): 10% * 56302 * 200% * 150% = 16,891

So even with no defense to reduce damage in the calculated value, if mod benefits apply additive with in battle effects the calculated damage is less than the damage level seen in game. To me, it's pretty clear mod benefits apply prior to in-battle effects as the predicted damage aligns closely with what is seen in game.

Great work, @Train

You've really gone over and above in providing helpful contributions to this thread.

Crit damage sets are underrated imo.

You'd think that just plain regular better hits w/ Offense would be better, but I will say, against certain targets w/ a lot of defense, CD is what you might want.

Relic Kyl-U, Bossk, Malac, etc etc.

The guys that when you hit w/o a crit and it barely moves a sliver if that.

Punching through that Regen/Defense/Mitigation, whatever, w/ a big hitting Crit can help.

Her stacking crit happens quick. You should definitely have at least the crit damage triangle.
Which permutation you do:
Offense set with CD triangle
CD set with CD triangle
+ offense and + speed + health + potency secondaries all depends o. The mods you have available
Tenacity might be a better secondary than potency considering she is a cleanser.
Grand Ivory modded mine like this and I am fine with it. Potency cross cd triangle health circle