Ezra vs Sabine

Pretty sure he meant Sabine for Phoenix since he wants to move Ezra to his Jedi squad and Sabine has no Jedi synergy.

At that point he's unlikely to be using Phoenix for squad arena so pure PVE. Sure, Ezra has an impressive bag'o'tricks but Sabine is no slouch.

I reckon for that usage she'd fill in just fine provided she was starred, geared and modded appropriately. Getting her starred-up is the real pain.

i run him with AA and Hoda in team. my bast team for TW is zBast, GMY, GK, Visas, ATF. i do this to avoid overkill, but its still a HUGE overkill, even if i dont use ezra and Hoda there

If she's gotten as much attention as Ezra has gotten (stars, mods, gear) then she'll do fine. Unlikely to output the same raw dps, but she's sufficent

Ezra's a little overrated. Not a bad toon, but Sabine works about as well in a Phoenix team. Unless you really need an extra buff removal or assist from Zeb, you aren't missing much in Phoenix without him.

"CoastalJames;c-1639402" wrote:

"crzydroid;c-1639336" wrote:
Ezra's a little overrated. Not a bad toon, but Sabine works about as well in a Phoenix team. Unless you really need an extra buff removal or assist from Zeb, you aren't missing much in Phoenix without him.

Genuine question - really?

Ezra is the heaviest hitter in Phoenix.

This is obviously in the context of Sabine being the replacement.

Their damage output is actually fairly comparable if Ezra can pull slightly ahead, and you can factor in his assists, but that's vs. her armor shred and the expose on her AoE(benefits everyone).

Another thing that benefits everyone is their uniques: Ezra's 10% stacking (limit 40%) offense at end of turn and Sabine's 25% cd and cc (every turn). I ran some numbers giving everyone 10% cc from mods and 186% crit chance, except for Ezra and Sabine, whom I gave an extra 15% cc and 216% cd (Kanan I actually gave more cc assuming you want his offense down to not be resisted, and only 150% cd as a tank). After the first 5 turns, average damage with Sabine on the team was higher than with Ezra's unique, with the numbers for Ezra ranging between about 93-99% of the damage with Sabine. Depending on the character, the breaking point seemed to be around 9-10 turns. After 20 turns, the damage by the others with Ezra was only 4-12% more than with Sabine--and that 12% figure was for Hera, who had the least offense anyway. Assuming she used her basic every time, that's only 23,000 more damage before mitigation over the course of those 20 turns (though honestly, she would probably also be calling assists).

As for the characters themselves, that's a little tricky depending on how you split up their use of specials, and how much tm the enemy has to trigger Sabine's extra hits, but it is possible to have Sabine doing more damage after the first few turns. You can factor in whether Ezra is gaining tm or the assists plus bonus damage, but again, balancing this against Armor Shred and an extra expose.

My point is, that in situations where you use Phoenix (TB, Secrets and Shadows, Thrawn event) I've found in practice you can do just as well with Sabine over Ezra at similar gear and mod levels, which is why I say you're not missing much without him. It's also why I say he's a little overrated--while not a bad toon, people act as though you absolutely MUST include him in a Phoenix comp, and it's simply not true. I've had no problems beating any of the three PvE modes mentioned above without Ezra.

Obviously, though, the best situation would be if Hera's leadership also included a line that let you use a 6-person team if they are all Phoenix. : )

I posted this on another thread about Phoenix, explaining why Phoenix is best without Ezra once some zetas are added. Long read, but there's a lot about Phoenix mechanics without Ezra and how to squeeze the most from them.

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Kanan, Sabine, Zeb, Ezra, Hera would be my recommended zeta order unless you are using Ezra with Jedi.
For TB and tw defense purposes, the best Phoenix squad doesn't actually use Ezra. He works best with Bastila Jedi anyway though.
Using hera/sabine/zeb/kanan/chopper gives them a lot more durability, since Kanan and chopper uniques both give health recovery ( chopper at the start of a turn and Kanan on suffering a debuffed) and zeb gives prot recovery. They are also less vulnerable to bad RNG causing you to lose Hera, Sabine, or zeb when a taunt isn't up.
Hera's zeta seems very weak, but when it is used properly with zeb it adds a ton of DPS to your squad. Use Zeb's staggering sweep, which will give him 50% TM w/ 5 Phoenix +20% from lead for an almost immediate turn. Use his basic to stun that toon, then call him to assist with hera's special and he will daze or stun another enemy and gain 50% TM for another almost immediate turn where you can use his Sweep again. I have had crits with Zeb's special for upwards of 60k damage against buffed, non-debuffed enemies ( the ideal target for his special).
With Sabine's zeta dishing out stagger and exposes everywhere ( both of which allow a stun with Zeb's basic) , Zeb's TM train can very quickly shut down a large number of enemies, which is ideal for TB or assault battles
Chopper has a dispel special like Ezra, except his also removes 10% TM per buff dispelled from the entire enemy squad, and also has a 30% assist chance with possible CD reduction. Kanan and chopper get the foresight from kanan's zeta special, which feeds tons of TM to everyone. Sabine's aoe also can't be countered, which will minimize those horrible assist chains in TB.
The AI sucks at playing Ezra with Phoenix, so for defense its best to leave him out provided the rest are up to par and zetad.

sabine isnt decent replacement even in a Phoenix squad. surely not in a jedi squad. Ezra is the better attacker.

"Rath_Tarr;c-1638960" wrote:
Pretty sure he meant Sabine for Phoenix since he wants to move Ezra to his Jedi squad and Sabine has no Jedi synergy.

At that point he's unlikely to be using Phoenix for squad arena so pure PVE. Sure, Ezra has an impressive bag'o'tricks but Sabine is no slouch.

I reckon for that usage she'd fill in just fine provided she was starred, geared and modded appropriately. Getting her starred-up is the real pain.

in that case, there's no real question. if he wants to move ezra to other team, sabine is the ONLY replacement. it wont be as good as ezra, but it is what it is.
and @Bistan_Lover its funny, i found ezra is most useful for me in rebel team actually :)

Great. Thanks guys! I had Ezra in my rebel squad too so I need some DPS

Sabine is great, especially for sith raid.