LV/Maul [MERGE]

I’d like Lord Vader lead to have the Darth-Vader DoT-returning capability. I’m not entirely sure if it would make a difference, but LV inflicts so many irresistable DoTs that last all of 5 seconds against JMK.

It may not help a huge amount but the dark side characters used with lv need their ai tweaked. Piett doesn't mark lord vader and darth vader doesn't use mm on their first turns, maul doesn't target cat. If all these happened then it would atleast make it harder to counter on defence then what it is atm.

"Saada;c-2309195" wrote:
It may not help a huge amount but the dark side characters used with lv need their ai tweaked. Piett doesn't mark lord vader and darth vader doesn't use mm on their first turns, maul doesn't target cat. If all these happened then it would atleast make it harder to counter on defence then what it is atm.

Don't get me wrong I definitely think the AI needs tweaked on this, Piett should always mark LV so it calls him to assist, he can take the taunt he's beefy enough. DV not using MM is from the EP days, where using AoE first would fill his TM and then he would MM and use all of them, which makes sense on that team but not anymore. His AI should know which leader he has and adjust accordingly. Maul targeting CAT won't change much though because JMK can simply wait a turn to use his CD reduction and she can still get it off. But changing just the AI isn't gonna be enough here, LV needs kit tweaks as well because as I see it, you use his ult at 100% and you get an ability block immediately, then do nothing for 5 turns while you can't build more ult. 5 turns is a long time to do nothing

LV's initial damage is so poor because they don't have a system that would add a damage constant on top of an otherwise final value. Now they have to start from very low or otherwise it ramps up to unnaturally high numbers. The current LV damage ramp up style is not very satisfying (the initial low dmg numbers), and they should have noticed and solved this problem early in the design.
The AI is somewhat understandable. Darth Vader uses AOE before MM so that he could not be slotted in an SLKR team (at the time) for too much profit. Maul plays like a fool to give a view of a lax opponent. This is nothing new, the issue lies with the overall power level of LV.
A little bit more could be said about the dysfunctional nature of the team. For example, if LV was the only tank (like JML), and Royal Guard hid himself the team's act would look a lot more coherent. Maybe we are still missing a piece of the puzzle because this cannot be the final product, can it?

Feedback from my personal testing so far:

My Maul team (DV can be switched out for Shore):





Disclaimer: Everything below refers to the 5v5 format. I have no experience in regards to his 3v3 performance.

Pretty much only went up against JMK, CAT, GAS, AT, GK teams so far, some easier ones with R7 avg and some nearly fully maxed out ones with R8 across the board and mod sets like +190 on JMK (CD triangle, offense cross) and +165 on CAT (CD triangle and offense cross).
On offense he's fine and can actually full auto those JMK teams after the initial manual targeting on CAT for the cooldown increase (will come to that later). I gotta say though that before entering the 2nd or even 3rd ult, the fun factor isn't really there, mainly due to the lack of dmg in the team. LV hits like a wet noodle and Maul can't even trigger the savior on GK with full seething spam and burning all 5 stacks if the GK is propperly modded. As others have alrdy pointed out LV's ultimate is pretty lame. Sure, he upgrades himself, gets a bonus turn and does his nice locked ability block AoE (only 1 turn ability block though) but then you just hope for his ult state to end as soon as possible (unfortunately you have to endure 5 turns) - you actually feel uncomfortable while he's in his 1st ult. That's a serious design flaw, you should never feel bad and hope for it to end when your GL is in it's ult state.
On defense he sucks. But I see this mainly as a problem due to bad AI. Especially Maul doesn't act smart and not only uses his CD increase randomly but also doesn't set himself up for a follow up CD increase next turn - something that he does when he only starts on 3 stacks of anguish against non Kenobi teams. There he actually starts off with his AoE to get 5 stacks and wait for his frenzy to trigger and give him another turn to then use his CD increase. It would be so much better if he would do this aswell against CAT and it would also counter the attempt of JMK users to just wait with the CD reset for 1 turn because Maul could increase CDs again.
Examples:
vs JMK, CAT scenario #1 (JMK uses his CD reset immediately): LV AoE -> JMK CD reset on CAT -> Maul seething rage + CD increase on CAT (4 stacks of anguish left) -> Maul seething rage on GK (3 stacks left) -> Maul AoE (back to 5 stacks) -> ... battle goes on untill it's Mauls turn again -> Maul seething rage + CD increase again (4 stacks left) -> Maul seething spam on GK
vs JMK, CAT scenario #2 (JMK saves his CD reset): LV AoE -> JMK 1st special on himself -> Maul seething rage + CD increase on CAT (4 stacks of anguish left) -> Maul seething rage on GK (3 stacks left) -> Maul AoE (back to 5 stacks) -> ... battle goes on untill it's JMKs turn again -> JMK CD reset on CAT -> Maul seething rage + CD increase on CAT again (4 stacks left) -> Maul seething spam on GK
Other flawed AI's:
Piett - not using his mark on LV first but instead starting off with his AoE
DV - using his AoE first instead of going straight into MM and not only get several turns and feeding LV with underestimated stacks but also not spreading out those ability blocks
Bug / can't be WAI:
LV decreasing his mastery when activating his ult because an opponents SLKR has siphoned LV's allies' mastery into negatives


Things that I wish would be changed/fixed to increase Vaders defensive viability (right now even a JML with mostly "leftover" jedi can 1 shot a full R9 LV - and keep in mind that R9 is a huge boost to all those tank chars surrounding LV - as could be seen on Xaereths stream yesterday where he technically 1 shot a full R9 LV team with JML, KAM, GMY, Shaak and Jolee if he would've used Jolees revive at the end):
1) AI fixes (see above)
2) a buff to his ultimate - several things that could be used here: increase duration on that locked ability block, reduce duration of his ult stance so he can start charging up his next ult sooner, grant healing for the team, lots of buffs for the team (buffs = mastery = good), reduce cooldowns on his specials so he can use them more frequently, add undispellable buff and healing immunity to his AoE, protect his allies by putting a mark on him and stealth on all his allies, etc.
3) have RG also heal non-empire dark side characters, maybe by a lower percentage like 4% and with the condition that the allied leader must be an empire character

"Trevor001100;c-2309218" wrote:

"Saada;c-2309195" wrote:
It may not help a huge amount but the dark side characters used with lv need their ai tweaked. Piett doesn't mark lord vader and darth vader doesn't use mm on their first turns, maul doesn't target cat. If all these happened then it would atleast make it harder to counter on defence then what it is atm.

Don't get me wrong I definitely think the AI needs tweaked on this, Piett should always mark LV so it calls him to assist, he can take the taunt he's beefy enough. DV not using MM is from the EP days, where using AoE first would fill his TM and then he would MM and use all of them, which makes sense on that team but not anymore. His AI should know which leader he has and adjust accordingly. Maul targeting CAT won't change much though because JMK can simply wait a turn to use his CD reduction and she can still get it off. But changing just the AI isn't gonna be enough here, LV needs kit tweaks as well because as I see it, you use his ult at 100% and you get an ability block immediately, then do nothing for 5 turns while you can't build more ult. 5 turns is a long time to do nothing

I agree lv kit does need tweaking mainly around his damage and ult. I'm just not a fan of how bad the ai is. Those 3 should be adjusted to fit in line with lv.

I know it's said it won't matter too much if maul increase cats cooldowns but if vader ability blocks jmk as well, it'll slow down the jmk squad and lv is all about lasting as long as possible. Id like to see the difference this makes before changing lv kit.

Edit: just read "legend91" post and he's summarised everything pretty well.

The thing is his ultimate, besides gaining mastery, is meant to make his move set better whereas Kenobi outright buffs himself with more offence, counters etc and he even reduces his speed which you’re happy for because you want him to stay in high ground for longer. It’s a fine alternate but the gain to his move set is pathetic, the basic hits for a third damage, woohoo 3x trash damage. His first special also hits for true damage, woohoo some more trash damage (I think this move should ramp up and hit really hard but oh well). The second special makes you ability blocked for 1 turn, woohoo, Nihilus does it better with his force drain via cooldown increase. His moves need to do more in ultimate instead of the snoozefest joke additions they do now. Why doesn’t one special increase LV’s stats and another buffs the team whilst the basic does something else unique.

Vindictive Strike in ult: no idea honestly

Dark Harbinger in ult: This attack also deals true damage, Buff Immunity and Healing Immunity cannot be cleansed and Lord Vader gains 1% Mastery (stacking) for each stack of Underestimated.

Unshackled Emotions in ult: Inflict Ability Block for 1 turn which can't be dispelled or resisted, increase target enemy's cooldowns by 2 and Dark Side ally Mastery gain is doubled.

- helps ramp up both Vader and his team a lot quicker while in ult which, in turn, makes each ult activation afterwards stronger with greater mastery gain. Simply takes it from a slow gain to a fast one.

It seems no matter what the comp is either for Lord Vader teams or JMK teams that Maul does not consistently increase CAT's cooldowns. Sometimes he does, sometimes he doesn't. On the flip side, JMK always resets CAT's cooldowns to start the fight.

Is the LV/Maul AI working as intended? Or is something wrong?

1- he needs 5 stacks of anguish to activate the cooldown increase, 2 - it doesn't say anything about being unresistable. I suggest you stack potency.

"Aluxtu;c-2309310" wrote:
1- he needs 5 stacks of anguish to activate the cooldown increase, 2 - it doesn't say anything about being unresistable. I suggest you stack potency.

I think hes refering to the fact that Maul doesnt consistently target CAT with the ability when he has 5 stacks. The CD increase is unresistable even though it doesnt say so in the kit (Nute is currently the only one with a resistable CD increase) and the resists are because of the buff immunity.