"yankeeh8er;c-1953186" wrote:
Thank you for the explanation. So it makes sense to keep pushing her potency higher then even at the cost of health. I am trying to figure out the health potency balance for her.
"Jarvind;c-1953164" wrote:
Your potency - enemy's tenacity = X
X is your chance to land a debuff. Your enemy always has a minimum of 15% chance to resist, even if the above results in 100% or more.
Your Daka has 80% potency and the target has 40% tenacity = 40% chance to land a stun.
Your Daka has 110% potency and the target has 5% tenacity = 85% chance to land a stun. You have 105% chance, but the 15% minimum resist chance takes effect here.
Your Daka has 5% potency and target has 110% tenacity = You cannot inflict stun because they end up with over 100% chance to resist.
... and supersedes Tenacity Up, e.g. if the target has Tenacity Up and you attempt to inflict Tenacity Down, it will land and the target now has only the 15% base resist chance to any subsequent debuffs.
"lladdir;c-1953220" wrote:"Jarvind;c-1953164" wrote:
Your potency - enemy's tenacity = X
X is your chance to land a debuff. Your enemy always has a minimum of 15% chance to resist, even if the above results in 100% or more.
Your Daka has 80% potency and the target has 40% tenacity = 40% chance to land a stun.
Your Daka has 110% potency and the target has 5% tenacity = 85% chance to land a stun. You have 105% chance, but the 15% minimum resist chance takes effect here.
Your Daka has 5% potency and target has 110% tenacity = You cannot inflict stun because they end up with over 100% chance to resist.
... and supersedes Tenacity Up, e.g. if the target has Tenacity Up and you attempt to inflict Tenacity Down, it will land and the target now has only the 15% base resist chance to any subsequent debuffs.
This is wrong.
Rather than look at chance to land debuffs you need to look at chance to resist and the formula for that is
Resist chance=((tenacity-15%)-potency+level delta)+15%
or simplified (level delta doesn't affect it unless you're still leveling your daka up)
X=tenacity-potency X !< 15%
How is this different from what jarvind said? Simple, tenacity has to beat potency, not the other way around. Unless your opponent has a higher tenacity than your potency more potency has no affect on you landing debuffs, and even then their tenacity has to be more than 15% higher before it starts having an affect.
So using their examples,
potency vs tenacity
80% vs 40% = 15% resist chance (85% chance to land)
110% vs 5% = 15% resist chance (85% chance to land)
0% vs 110% = 100% resist chance (can't land a debuff)
So while the second and third examples have the same result the 1st one shows why the distinction is important.
As an extra example if the target has 40% tenacity anything over 25% potency has no benefit, whether its 25% or 225% there will still be a 15% chance to resist.
An easy test to show that jarvinds formula is wrong is to go into GW and find a debuffer, take a look at their potency, let say it's 20%, now take any of your characters with tenacity over 20% see if they land any debuffs. By jarvinds formula they shouldn't be able to, but they probably will (test it a few times with different characters to make sure it's not just rng). Or do the reverse and look at their tenacity and find one of your debuffers with a lower potency.
Also tenacity down doesn't supersede tenacity up, yes it can't be resisted but they simply cancel each other out and leave the target with their base tenacity. A good example of this is in GeoTB where one of the troopers, ponds i think, can give themselves tenacity up. If you apply tenacity down most of your debuffs will still be resisted unless you use a very high potency character
edit:
Yes i know the first formula technically is wrong, everything in the brackets should be considered Y and Y!<0, but i couldn't be bothered adding in algebra considering most people are gonna skip it anyway.
Also, TL;DR
Potency=>tenacity= 15% resist chance, tenacity>potency=varying resist chance (15% to 100%).
If you got more potency than their tenacity, congrats you don't need anymore. Just be ready to curse at that bloody 15% which always pops up at the worst of times.
"Jarvind;c-1953544" wrote:"lladdir;c-1953220" wrote:"Jarvind;c-1953164" wrote:
Your potency - enemy's tenacity = X
X is your chance to land a debuff. Your enemy always has a minimum of 15% chance to resist, even if the above results in 100% or more.
Your Daka has 80% potency and the target has 40% tenacity = 40% chance to land a stun.
Your Daka has 110% potency and the target has 5% tenacity = 85% chance to land a stun. You have 105% chance, but the 15% minimum resist chance takes effect here.
Your Daka has 5% potency and target has 110% tenacity = You cannot inflict stun because they end up with over 100% chance to resist.
... and supersedes Tenacity Up, e.g. if the target has Tenacity Up and you attempt to inflict Tenacity Down, it will land and the target now has only the 15% base resist chance to any subsequent debuffs.
This is wrong.
Rather than look at chance to land debuffs you need to look at chance to resist and the formula for that is
Resist chance=((tenacity-15%)-potency+level delta)+15%
or simplified (level delta doesn't affect it unless you're still leveling your daka up)
X=tenacity-potency X !< 15%
How is this different from what jarvind said? Simple, tenacity has to beat potency, not the other way around. Unless your opponent has a higher tenacity than your potency more potency has no affect on you landing debuffs, and even then their tenacity has to be more than 15% higher before it starts having an affect.
So using their examples,
potency vs tenacity
80% vs 40% = 15% resist chance (85% chance to land)
110% vs 5% = 15% resist chance (85% chance to land)
0% vs 110% = 100% resist chance (can't land a debuff)
So while the second and third examples have the same result the 1st one shows why the distinction is important.
As an extra example if the target has 40% tenacity anything over 25% potency has no benefit, whether its 25% or 225% there will still be a 15% chance to resist.
An easy test to show that jarvinds formula is wrong is to go into GW and find a debuffer, take a look at their potency, let say it's 20%, now take any of your characters with tenacity over 20% see if they land any debuffs. By jarvinds formula they shouldn't be able to, but they probably will (test it a few times with different characters to make sure it's not just rng). Or do the reverse and look at their tenacity and find one of your debuffers with a lower potency.
Also tenacity down doesn't supersede tenacity up, yes it can't be resisted but they simply cancel each other out and leave the target with their base tenacity. A good example of this is in GeoTB where one of the troopers, ponds i think, can give themselves tenacity up. If you apply tenacity down most of your debuffs will still be resisted unless you use a very high potency character
edit:
Yes i know the first formula technically is wrong, everything in the brackets should be considered Y and Y!<0, but i couldn't be bothered adding in algebra considering most people are gonna skip it anyway.
Also, TL;DR
Potency=>tenacity= 15% resist chance, tenacity>potency=varying resist chance (15% to 100%).
If you got more potency than their tenacity, congrats you don't need anymore. Just be ready to curse at that bloody 15% which always pops up at the worst of times.
I won't claim to have extensively tested this, but according to this, if my target has 100% tenacity and I have 101% potency, I have the maximum possible chance to land a debuff? That doesn't seem right. If that's true then tenacity is pointless unless you stack huge amounts of it.
"Kozispoon;c-581984" wrote:
Check out the post linked above @SNAKEMAN , though I think the forums formatting of my original response may of mislead folks into taking what I said a wee bit off the deep end.
Defender has 50 tenacity. You have 5 potency = Defender has 45% chance to resist.
You have 10 potency, defender has 40% chance to resist etc.
until you get to 35 potency, when the defender has a 15% chance to resist any more potency past that is useless against THAT target, because they can't have a lower resist chance than 15%
So if you have 50% potency, they still have a 15% chance to resist. Or if you have 100% potency, or 100000% (Mind you, this has NOTHING to do with the trigger chance on effects, either)
