People judged the empire pass too quickly.

"leef;c-1148601" wrote:

"danflorian1984;c-1148473" wrote:

"Olddumper;c-1147291" wrote:

"Polarice;c-1147286" wrote:
I think you will find it subjective to your shard/leaderboard. Im on the September 2015 shard and those that are running thrawn can punch up into top 10 just like most teams on offense. On defense those same teams still get dropped anywhere down into the 50s.

People need to stop acting like most of the shard are different now. Most shards everybody at the top has 100 plus toons unlocked and we all started mods at he same time. For all I care they could merge all the shards.

The only difference in my shard after the pass is that most of the Maul users switched to cleanse. There is only 1 empire team in top 50, soon(ish) to be 2 once I finish developing mine.
In my shard the pass is irrelevant, and judging by the meta report my shard is not the exception.

Also it doesn't matter how good of a product something is if almost nobody uses it!

can't really fault the product for not being used if it is actually good.

But you can blame the producer.

But the question then is why is nobody using it? I think the answer is accessibility, not quality. I would rather be using an empire team right now. The reason I'm not is because I don't have one yet. The meta will slowly shift as people get these new characters (many of which are very difficult to acquire). Newer players will chase empire first now as much as they will chase rebels. It just needs time to balance out a little bit.

"danflorian1984;c-1148617" wrote:

"leef;c-1148601" wrote:

"danflorian1984;c-1148473" wrote:

"Olddumper;c-1147291" wrote:

"Polarice;c-1147286" wrote:
I think you will find it subjective to your shard/leaderboard. Im on the September 2015 shard and those that are running thrawn can punch up into top 10 just like most teams on offense. On defense those same teams still get dropped anywhere down into the 50s.

People need to stop acting like most of the shard are different now. Most shards everybody at the top has 100 plus toons unlocked and we all started mods at he same time. For all I care they could merge all the shards.

The only difference in my shard after the pass is that most of the Maul users switched to cleanse. There is only 1 empire team in top 50, soon(ish) to be 2 once I finish developing mine.
In my shard the pass is irrelevant, and judging by the meta report my shard is not the exception.

Also it doesn't matter how good of a product something is if almost nobody uses it!

can't really fault the product for not being used if it is actually good.

But you can blame the producer.

Why? it still a good product. I blame the consumer ;)

"Bulldog1205;c-1148699" wrote:
But the question then is why is nobody using it? I think the answer is accessibility, not quality. I would rather be using an empire team right now. The reason I'm not is because I don't have one yet. The meta will slowly shift as people get these new characters (many of which are very difficult to acquire). Newer players will chase empire first now as much as they will chase rebels. It just needs time to balance out a little bit.

I agree. I am running Empire and the main reason most of shard mates of mine aren't running Empire (the ones I chat with anyways) is that they don't have all of the required characters geared up to make a successful squad.

Many of them are just as tired of running the squads they do as I am tired of fighting them.

"Bulldog1205;c-1148699" wrote:
But the question then is why is nobody using it? I think the answer is accessibility, not quality. I would rather be using an empire team right now. The reason I'm not is because I don't have one yet. The meta will slowly shift as people get these new characters (many of which are very difficult to acquire). Newer players will chase empire first now as much as they will chase rebels. It just needs time to balance out a little bit.

That's a huge part of it. Massive transitions in teams takes time. Except for maybe GK - and he's not optimal even - the move to a DS / Thrawn team from a LS GK / Chaze / R2 / Rex, etc squad takes time and resources due to being totally different heroes. Veteran shards where players have resources and can move fairly quick will see it and have been seeing the shift. Right now my top 20 consists of the following leads:

1. Jinn
2. Tarkin (prior: Rex)
3. DV (prior: Rex)
4. DV (prior: GK / DN in a Chaze / R2 comp)
5. DV (prior: GK / DN in a Chaze / R2 comp)
6. Rex
7. Tarkin (prior: GK / DN in a Chaze / R2 comp)
8. Rex
9. Thrawn
10. Rex (classic 3x cleanse no R2)
11. DV
12. Jinn
13. GK (Chaze / R2/ DN)
14. Rex (classic 3x cleanse no R2)
15. Rex (classic 3x cleanse no R2)
16. DN
17. Rex
18. GK
19. Rex (Chaze / R2 / DN)
20. Rex (classic 3x cleanse no R2)

Now, there's still a good number of Chaze and Rex leads there, but notice how they are pushed more to the 11-20 rather than in the top 10 and especially 5. There's actually only ONE Chaze combo currently being used in the top 10 at all and it's at 10. In the parenthesis above for the top 10 I put what some of players in the top 10 ran prior to the DS shift that started happening a bit before Thrawn was released. 3 Gk / Chaze / R2 teams switched and 2 other Rex led teams switched as well. In the 11-20 section the parenthesis note what the squad is currently for context.

The last shift this stark in contrast was when Rex / Cleanse pushed out Maul. I doubt most shards will get to this point ever though. You need multiple veteran players that have roster flexibility to move a shard like that. If only 1 or 2 guys switch and the rest camp on the same team, it's status quo - but when you get 4/5+ people radically changing team comp and it gives others problems, then they too have to look at switching in order to get results.

I'll also add, Thrawn is being used in the rank 2, 3, 4, 7, 8, and 9 squads above (so he's in one Rex team even).

Really this is what good balance looks like. Light side v Dark side is darn near parity and you can use multiple versions of toons in those factions to get there.

Thrawn is a stud. Tarkin is a stud. DV / SA / DN are awesome. Jedi are great. Rex is still good. Chaze is still great. Shore is solid now. TFP and RG can even get some run. Have at it in arena folks.

"leef;c-1148713" wrote:

"danflorian1984;c-1148617" wrote:

"leef;c-1148601" wrote:

"danflorian1984;c-1148473" wrote:

"Olddumper;c-1147291" wrote:

"Polarice;c-1147286" wrote:
I think you will find it subjective to your shard/leaderboard. Im on the September 2015 shard and those that are running thrawn can punch up into top 10 just like most teams on offense. On defense those same teams still get dropped anywhere down into the 50s.

People need to stop acting like most of the shard are different now. Most shards everybody at the top has 100 plus toons unlocked and we all started mods at he same time. For all I care they could merge all the shards.

The only difference in my shard after the pass is that most of the Maul users switched to cleanse. There is only 1 empire team in top 50, soon(ish) to be 2 once I finish developing mine.
In my shard the pass is irrelevant, and judging by the meta report my shard is not the exception.

Also it doesn't matter how good of a product something is if almost nobody uses it!

can't really fault the product for not being used if it is actually good.

But you can blame the producer.

Why? it still a good product. I blame the consumer ;)

Simple, is their fault that they didn't make their product,no matter how good , attractive enough.
Like you acknowleged most people have no real incentive to change their teams so most of their work in this year was in vain.
Simple enough, while I will change my team to return to empire all my shardmates I am in contact plan to continue using the same team, so I will have to fight the same team as before, and that makes this pass in my eyes a failure. So from my point of view it was judged correctly.

Best thing about the pass was the Imperial Trooper changes. Veers rocks now with troopers.

"danflorian1984;c-1148747" wrote:

"leef;c-1148713" wrote:

"danflorian1984;c-1148617" wrote:

"leef;c-1148601" wrote:

"danflorian1984;c-1148473" wrote:

"Olddumper;c-1147291" wrote:

"Polarice;c-1147286" wrote:
I think you will find it subjective to your shard/leaderboard. Im on the September 2015 shard and those that are running thrawn can punch up into top 10 just like most teams on offense. On defense those same teams still get dropped anywhere down into the 50s.

People need to stop acting like most of the shard are different now. Most shards everybody at the top has 100 plus toons unlocked and we all started mods at he same time. For all I care they could merge all the shards.

The only difference in my shard after the pass is that most of the Maul users switched to cleanse. There is only 1 empire team in top 50, soon(ish) to be 2 once I finish developing mine.
In my shard the pass is irrelevant, and judging by the meta report my shard is not the exception.

Also it doesn't matter how good of a product something is if almost nobody uses it!

can't really fault the product for not being used if it is actually good.

But you can blame the producer.

Why? it still a good product. I blame the consumer ;)

Simple, is their fault that they didn't make their product,no matter how good , attractive enough.
Like you acknowleged most people have no real incentive to change their teams so most of their work in this year was in vain.
Simple enough, while I will change my team to return to empire all my shardmates I am in contact plan to continue using the same team, so I will have to fight the same team as before, and that makes this pass in my eyes a failure. So from my point of view it was judged correctly.

You can't judge of the success of a pass just because YOUR shard doesn't turn all to Empire. There's a lot of variety now in most of shards as specified @JohnnySteelAlpha, also in mine. A new arena team takes time to develop. I'm farming Imperial troopers for a while now and most of them are 6-7* with gr 8-10, so not ready for arena. I've just zeta'd Veers and he's great with his troopers in GW. I also need to gear Thrawn, but if you're not a whale, a month is not enough for such project.

"danflorian1984;c-1148747" wrote:

"leef;c-1148713" wrote:

"danflorian1984;c-1148617" wrote:

"leef;c-1148601" wrote:

"danflorian1984;c-1148473" wrote:

"Olddumper;c-1147291" wrote:

"Polarice;c-1147286" wrote:
I think you will find it subjective to your shard/leaderboard. Im on the September 2015 shard and those that are running thrawn can punch up into top 10 just like most teams on offense. On defense those same teams still get dropped anywhere down into the 50s.

People need to stop acting like most of the shard are different now. Most shards everybody at the top has 100 plus toons unlocked and we all started mods at he same time. For all I care they could merge all the shards.

The only difference in my shard after the pass is that most of the Maul users switched to cleanse. There is only 1 empire team in top 50, soon(ish) to be 2 once I finish developing mine.
In my shard the pass is irrelevant, and judging by the meta report my shard is not the exception.

Also it doesn't matter how good of a product something is if almost nobody uses it!

can't really fault the product for not being used if it is actually good.

But you can blame the producer.

Why? it still a good product. I blame the consumer ;)

Simple, is their fault that they didn't make their product,no matter how good , attractive enough.
Like you acknowleged most people have no real incentive to change their teams so most of their work in this year was in vain.
Simple enough, while I will change my team to return to empire all my shardmates I am in contact plan to continue using the same team, so I will have to fight the same team as before, and that makes this pass in my eyes a failure. So from my point of view it was judged correctly.

how is it in vain if you're changing back to empire? That just doesn't make sence to me. The pass just adds another option to use in arena, wich is a win in my book. That players won't use empire is their own choice, it surely is beter than being "forced" to use a certain faction you don't like because you want to be competative isnt it?

"Bulldog1205;c-1148699" wrote:
Newer players will chase empire first now as much as they will chase rebels. It just needs time to balance out alittle bit.

Not really. Krennic and Shoretrooper are close to impossible to get for newer players using dark teams, I know from experience, besides buying overpriced shards compared with the Rogue 1 ones. For EP and Thrawn you need fully developed rebel teams. DT and RG are harder to farm than the rebels from cantina (higher nodes) . Veers is also too long of a farm for newer players.
Lastly the empire needs multiple zetas, hard to get by newer players, to be effective.