"CountPookoo;d-155143" wrote:
As the title says, I am trying to build an Empire team that can effectively neutralize CLS teams with Wiggs or Chaze variants. I’m curious whether Tarkins speed (+28) trumps Thrawns lead?
No. Unequivocally, no.
"CountPookoo;c-1431877" wrote:
Isn’t the TM gain from Thrawn only when your team takes a debuff or resist? So it is a TM gain but your dps will be weaker due to the debuff applied assuming you don’t resist?
First, any weaker DPS as a result of the 28pt slower speed is more than compensated by a 25% Offense boost. Look at mods for the 'general' balance: the highest offense boost a single mod can give us 5.88%; the highest for speed is +30.
Next, Tarkin doesn't help resist or dispell debuffs, so the comparison is in the recovery. The debuffs that you most have to worry about recovering from vs. the team you're looking to beat are stuns from CLS, R2D2 and Han Solo, Speed Downs from CLS and Baze and Buff Immunity from CLS (and whatever horrors Baze inflicts). There are others, but those are the nasty ones. In the case of stun, Tarkin's speed boost will allow the afflicted party to recover 28pts faster, whereas Thrawns lead will allow them to recover 20% faster _per debuff_. In the case of speed down, Tarkin only helps by 14pts, whereas Thrawn still allows them to recover at +20%. One toons with speed in the low 200s, Thrawn's lead offers 45+ point speed boosts on every debuff attempted or inflicted. Given the abundance of debuffs from CLS, R2, Baze, Wedge (not to mention all the other teams you might face), it's probably not inaccurate to anticipate an average of 1 debuff per turn. As long as your toons have greater than 112 speed, Thrawn's speed gain is superior, and exponentially so the higher the toons' speed.
That does not take into account that (with Thrawn zeta), the target will recoup a total of 4% protection for every buff inflicted/removed or that Thrawn allows them to cleanse the debuff with little lost productivity.
Another thing you may not be considering is that under Thrawn, your soldiers do not have to be debuffed in order to use Maneuver. Thrawns specials on cooldown? Maneuver! Boom. Command. Boom. Fracture. Boom. Further, Maneuver counts as a special ability for the purposes of Fracture. CLS not dead yet and close to waking up? Maneuver. Maneuver. Maneuver. Maneuver. All set.
"CountPookoo;c-1432583" wrote:
"Gmytrix;c-1432288" wrote:
"TAureliusC;c-1432167" wrote:
An empire team that can rival a CLS era team is the SWGOH unicorn.
Thrawn lead, Shoretrooper Stormtrooper Krenic Deathtrooper is this unicorn. This team can auto CLS teams.
That may be the intention but I don’t see how this team nullifies CLS teams.
That is the team I run in Arena (zzG10 Thrawn (L), G11 Krennic, G11 Death, G11 Storm and G10 Shore). In the 'bracket' of my shard in which I play, full G12 teams are ubiquitous. There are a few teams I see occasionally that have a purple toon or maybe two, but gold is prevalent. I am definitely the only one I ever see with no G12. That makes me a huge target on defense. Despite this I often fall as little as 2 battles in 24 hours (though I've fallen more!).
My shard 'bracket' (75-150) is also inundated with CLS, GK and Sith teams, primarily (the top of the shard being all JTR and Nightsisters). I go after the CLS teams (without Han Solo when I can), whether he's paired with Chaze or Wiggs. Even significantly overgeared, those teams can rarely outdamage my defenses. Han Solo's _opening_ shot can be a major hindrance, which is why I try and avoid him, but other than that, between Thrawn's Fracture, cleansing and his Maneuver swiss army knife, Krennic's staggers and Deathtrooper's rebel-destroying daze-stun doubletap, locking down two targets while you deal with the first threat is often pretty straightforward. Once that first target dies and Deathmark is in play, it just gets easier. Again, this is a G10/11 team going up against G12 teams. A zeta on DT or a couple of G12s could only make it more effective.
As someone who has an empire team and hunts for CLS teams with it, I find the idea of replacing Thrawn with Tarkin laughable (no offense). However, here's what I suggest... do 10/12 of your GW run without using any of these empire. Not using them earlier will ensure a more even playing field due to lack of preloaded turn meter. When you get to Node 11 or 12, if there's a quality CLS team, put the Empire team in with one composition and play it until the result is 'decided,' but the fight not over. Then retreat and try it with the other composition. Since GW random numbers are predetermined, do this many times using many different strategies, ever poor ones (particularly poor ones) to see how each team recovers. Assuming the opponent's CLS team is equitably matched (or superior) you'll have a decent idea of which plays better.
