Tenacity Up (as it is now: debuff immunity, and how easily available it is) is shutting down about one third of the creative possibilities of this game.What is this game about? Kill your opponents before they kill you. This is roughly based on 3 mechanics: Make damage, lots of it. Think Geo Soldier, Rey, Wiggs (all were considered OP in their day). Simple. Boring. Control/disrupt the enemy. Ability block, stun, daze,... Not that simple, may work or not. Interesting. Boost or repair my toons (moaaar damage!)Tenacity Up was designed back in the days where debuffs were Luminara's single target Ability Block, the dreaded double-stuns of Dooku and Daka, and the GW-death-sentence Heal block of Sidious. Fair enough, counter those three.About one year and a few dark-side passes later, the devs have demonstrated unequalled creativity and come up with a wide array of new debuff possibilities: daze, stagger, burning, expose,... which all end up as more flies on the windscreen of Tenacity Up.Hence my point: Tenacity Up reduces the dimensions of possibilities from 3 to 2, and makes the game 33% poorer that it could be. If only they had made it "Add 50% (or 100%)" tenacity!...In the process, it also completely destroyed any hope of getting the thermal detonators and bounty hunters out of the oddities museum.

"Tiggus;d-121638" wrote:If only they had made it "Add 50% (or 100%)" tenacity!...... Or a one-time protection, like Foresight: avoid the next debuff, and that's it.On the contrary, imagine a Foresight that lasts 2 or 3 turns?...

"Tiggus;c-1178590" wrote:"Tiggus;d-121638" wrote:If only they had made it "Add 50% (or 100%)" tenacity!...... Or a one-time protection, like Foresight: avoid the next debuff, and that's it.On the contrary, imagine a Foresight that lasts 2 or 3 turns?...Sounds like ai controlled zaul!Heyo! Rimshot...I'll be here all night

Haha. With the influx of new character-specific game mechanics, tenacity up is slowly dying. Debuffs that can't be resisted or cleansed are making a rise. Eventually tenacity up or cleanse characters will become a liability in any team.Meta is ever shifting.

"Snake2;c-1178612" wrote:"Tiggus;c-1178590" wrote:"Tiggus;d-121638" wrote:If only they had made it "Add 50% (or 100%)" tenacity!...... Or a one-time protection, like Foresight: avoid the next debuff, and that's it.On the contrary, imagine a Foresight that lasts 2 or 3 turns?...Sounds like ai controlled zaul!Heyo! Rimshot...I'll be here all nightThe funny part is that's not even a joke. Oh wait. I guess that's the joke.

"Tiggus;c-1178590" wrote:"Tiggus;d-121638" wrote:If only they had made it "Add 50% (or 100%)" tenacity!...... Or a one-time protection, like Foresight: avoid the next debuff, and that's it.On the contrary, imagine a Foresight that lasts 2 or 3 turns?...I imagine a character that has the ability to dispel buffs off of a whole team. That would counter the current form of tenacity up. If only such a character existed.(See B2, or Death Trooper)

Tenacity Up is slowly killing this game!

62 Replies

heiligenborre
9 years ago
"Tiggus;d-121638" wrote:

If only they had made it "Add 50% (or 100%)" tenacity!...

... Or a one-time protection, like Foresight: avoid the next debuff, and that's it.
On the contrary, imagine a Foresight that lasts 2 or 3 turns?...
SnakeB2
9 years ago
"Tiggus;c-1178590" wrote:
"Tiggus;d-121638" wrote:

If only they had made it "Add 50% (or 100%)" tenacity!...

... Or a one-time protection, like Foresight: avoid the next debuff, and that's it.
On the contrary, imagine a Foresight that lasts 2 or 3 turns?...

Sounds like ai controlled zaul!

Heyo! Rimshot...

I'll be here all night
ExarTheKun
9 years ago
Haha. With the influx of new character-specific game mechanics, tenacity up is slowly dying. Debuffs that can't be resisted or cleansed are making a rise. Eventually tenacity up or cleanse characters will become a liability in any team.

Meta is ever shifting.
tharduskafka
9 years ago
"Snake2;c-1178612" wrote:
"Tiggus;c-1178590" wrote:
"Tiggus;d-121638" wrote:

If only they had made it "Add 50% (or 100%)" tenacity!...

... Or a one-time protection, like Foresight: avoid the next debuff, and that's it.
On the contrary, imagine a Foresight that lasts 2 or 3 turns?...

Sounds like ai controlled zaul!

Heyo! Rimshot...

I'll be here all night

The funny part is that's not even a joke. Oh wait. I guess that's the joke.
JacenRoe
9 years ago
"Tiggus;c-1178590" wrote:
"Tiggus;d-121638" wrote:

If only they had made it "Add 50% (or 100%)" tenacity!...

... Or a one-time protection, like Foresight: avoid the next debuff, and that's it.
On the contrary, imagine a Foresight that lasts 2 or 3 turns?...

I imagine a character that has the ability to dispel buffs off of a whole team. That would counter the current form of tenacity up. If only such a character existed.

(See B2, or Death Trooper)
NicWester
9 years ago
Hi, I'm B2 Super Battle Droid. I fit on any team and am the hardest of counters to Tenacity Up. Yes, I'm slow, but that doesn't matter if they attack anyone other than me--which is nice, because I'm a tank and that's my job.

Hi, I'm Lando Calrissian and I just don't gaf about Tenacity Up because I do a crazy amount of damage to everyone. I have a lot of buddies--some are Rebels, but a lot aren't--who also don't care about Tenacity Up because we just do buckets of damage and don't care about debuffs.

All dumb jokes aside, my point is that Tenacity Up is a hard counter to a specific, debuff-heavy playstyle. But the key to a healthy game is to have multiple viable playstyles, so as long as a hard counter is either very narrow in its scope or has counters of its own, the game--as a whole--is fine.

It really doesn't matter what you see on the leaderboard. Right now it's cleanses and tenacity up, but it could be Ugnaught and Ewoks for all it matters--those ranks are controlled by a cabal of players who determine which of them get the payout on which days.
drval85
9 years ago
Doesn't Baze have an AOE dispel?
Universe-ctrl
9 years ago
Don't forget the slim and spicy Asajj
riffinator24
Seasoned Ace
9 years ago
"Django_Fett;c-1178697" wrote:
Don't forget the slim and spicy Asajj

and echo and Death Trooper
heiligenborre
9 years ago
"ExarTheKun;c-1178622" wrote:
Haha. With the influx of new character-specific game mechanics, tenacity up is slowly dying. Debuffs that can't be resisted or cleansed are making a rise. Eventually tenacity up or cleanse characters will become a liability in any team.

Meta is ever shifting.

@ExarTheKun
Yes I know, but... why introduce new mechanics when there was one already? (Or why keep things simple when we can make them complicated)?
Since day 1, there is a Tenacity vs. Potency balance that players can use to tweak how much they think debuffs should be resisted or stick. That mechanics never quite worked for some reason, the result being tenacity is insignificant, debuffs just stick. The response was Tenacity Up as we know it (instead of like a Defense Up: +xx%, resists more often). Now debuffs don't stick, ever. Now that this is broken the other way around, again, the response is Debuffs that aren't categorized as such (Fracture) or can't be resisted. This again will be abused (or is already?), then the next response will be "Super Tenacity Up Also Works For Such And Such" etc. etc.
Each new mechanics brings its share of confusion and bugs too.

I guess my point is: instead of having a single-dimension progression along the lines of Potency & Tenacity (too many debuffs? Ok, let's boost Tenacity. Too much resist? Let's boost Potency etc.), they're piling up more and more incompatible mechanics to bypass each previous one. And the way I think this is harmful is this: Every new mechanics leaves its trail of road-kills on the side, casualties of a fight they were not even part of. E.g. Thermal detonators, Tenacity Leadership / Uniques and mods and worst of all...

Why the f**k do I have to purchase thousands of Holo Projectors Mk3 for the sake of adding 2.0% of completely useless tenacity-base to all of my toons and their mother?