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QuimSWGoH's avatar
QuimSWGoH
Seasoned Veteran
10 years ago

The Artificial Intelligence in the Arena: Attack (online) and Defense (offline)

There are some characters that are very useful when we have the control to decide every action, but, when the AI (artificial intelligence) have the control, some characters lose a lot of potential.

A easy example is:

● ASAJJ VENTRESS: she have very interesting abilities, but when the AI have the control is not very useful, because the AI uses the "Strike Fear" when the enemy have only one positive status effect, for example when Kylo Ren uses the "Lash Out" and gain retribution for 1 turn, but the other 4 characters don't have any positive status effect, then Ventress uses the "Strike Fear" and loses an opportunity to use it when more characters have positive status effects, and opportunity to do a basic attack or use the "Endless Wrath". Also she use the "Endless Wrath" at the beginning when all enemy characters are full of health, when it's better wait another round when the characters have less health to refresh all cooldowns on a finishing blow.

It is an example that Asajj Ventress is not useful if you are not controlling she, you need replace she in the last battle if you don't want lose a lot of positions in the rank.

More characters with AI problems:

● LUMINARA: She uses the "Master Healer's Blessing" for example when Kylo Ren uses "Lash Out" and the characters lose only 30% of his health, when would be more interesting to use the "Force Blast", I have Kylo Ren and when I want prevent the "Force Blast" of Luminara I use the "Lash Out", and then Luminara lose her cure ability for 3 turns, enough time to kill she, and lose an opportunity to use the "Force Blast", then I kill she before she can use it. Also she uses "Master Healer's Blessing" when a character have healing immunity, and when it's the only character with low health, misspending the ability and one turn. Also sometimes she attack Sidious, who have 35% evasion agains Jedi.

● SIDIOUS: He uses the AOE ability "Demoralizing Blows" at the beginning, when it's more interesting use a basic attack to apply the healing immunity to the character that you want kill second or first, to prevent the cure ability of Luminara. The AOE is very useful if you attack with Luminara and Kylo Ren a character and then the enemy Han, Chewbacca or Poe use the taunt, to kill the rest of this character, but if he use it at the beginning is not very useful. Also sometimes he use AOE when Dooku and Kylo Ren have 100% counterattack, then he can receive 3 attacks and to die.

● DOOKU: If you have Dooku, the most interesting thing at the beginning is try to stun Luminara, because he have 90% chance against Jedis, but he sometimes attack other characters that only have 40% chance, as IG-86, Kylo Ren, Sidious, Poggle, for example. Also if Luminara is alive, the most interesting thing would be continue attacking she to stun or to block she, but a lot of times Dooku attacks other inappropriate characters that is better attack at the end of the battle, as Kylo Ren, CT-5555, Poggle or Phasma, for example.

● YODA: It is one the characters who needs human manual control, because he have 3 special abilities with very special particularities that is difficult be interpreted by the AI. For example, at the beginning he always uses the "Unstoppable Force", that deal special damage to target enemy with a 65% chance to remove 40% turn meter, when sometimes is better use the "Battle Meditation" just at the beginning, to gain tenacity up for 2 turns, and in the second turn use "Masterstroke" or "Unstoppable Force". And if he use the the "Unstoppable Force"at the beginning would be more interesting attack fast characters as Geonosian Soldier, as Poe, as the Yoda enemy, to retard their abilities, but sometimes he attack IG-86, Poggle, Luminara or Kylo Ren, for example, that is not very important, would be more interesting attack Poe or GS.

● PHASMA: He sometimes uses the "Fusillade" at the beginning, when would be more useful use the "Victory March", to give to all allies 50% turn meter and advantage. Also sometimes use a basic attack.

● CHEWBACCA: He uses "Defiant Roar" when he have healing immunity, and also sometimes he uses a basic attack when he can use "Wookiee Rage".

● TALIA: She uses the cure ability ("Water of Life") when the character that she tries to cure have healing immunity, so the ability is useless in these cases and he loses the 20% of her health.

● POE: Sometimes if a enemy character only have 5% health, for example, he uses the basic attack to kill this character, and it's the end of the battle, because the strategy is based in the taunt of Poe, would be more interesting use the taunt and that other character kill the enemy low-health character. It is not very common, but sometimes I see it, that is something that happens with all tanks, also with Chewbacca or Han.

● DARTH VADER: Sometimes he uses "Culling Blade" at the beginning, when is much more useful use the "Force Crush" inflict 3 damage over time effects for 2 rounds and use the "Culling Blade" in the second round, when deals 40% more damage for each effect dispelled, not at the beginning when the characters don't have any negative effect.

● JEDI CONSULAR: The same problem that Luminara or Talia, he uses the cure ability when the character that he tries to cure have healing immunity.

● ATTACKS TO LOW-HEALTH CHARACTERS: I have commented it in Poe, but it is a AI problem that harm to all characters with important special abilities, as Old Ben, Kylo Ren, HK-47, IG-88, characters with AOE abilities, in summary, that are more useful that to kill that character at that moment.

● LEIA: Sometimes the most useful action is kill a character before her ability, for example if my GS and my Leia go first than the GS enemy, if I try to kill GS enemy, but he survive, then it's more interesting kill GS with Leia that use the "Rebel Tactics", because then GS can kill one of your characters, is better kill GS at that time and wait to use "Rebel Tactics".

Probably there are more AI problems, you can say more problems if you want.

I think that EA needs work in the AI to solve these problems, but who knows if it will happen someday, so meanwhile the best is think that some characters are not good to defense your rank and that is better, in the last battle, set characters with a real artificial intelligence, without AI problems.

The characters without important AI problems are:

- Geonosian Soldier
- Rey
- Poe Dameron
- Poggle
- Qui-Gon Jinn
- IG-86
- IG-88
- HK-47
- Kylo Ren
- Resistance Pilot
- Old Ben
- Royal Guard
- Old Daka
- Jawa
- Datcha
- CT-5555
- Barriss Offee
- Old Ewok
- Aayla Secura
- Han

These characters can play almost at the same level that an human, the only AI problems are the decision of "who attack first", that also would be improve, all characters have this problem, but at least these characters play well.

So I think that if you are controlling the characters is logical use Yoda, Leia, Sidious, Luminara, Dooku or Phasma, for example, but if you want defend the rank is better use characters who play without AI problems, for example a droid team is very useful, with Poggle (L), Poe, GS, IG-86 and IG-88, or with HK-47 (L), Poggle, Poe, IG-86 and IG-88, or if you have Rey and QGJ, a team as QGJ (L), GS, Rey, Poe and IG-86, for example, maybe you play online with QGJ (L), Yoda, Poggle, Lumi and GS, but offline you can change Yoda by Poe and Lumi by IG-86 or Kylo Ren, for example, to prevent the stun of Dooku enemy, to gain a more useful ability than the "Unstoppable Force" of Yoda, the Poe's taunt ability, the enemy always will kill first Yoda, so Yoda it is not very useful when the AI control he, Luminara can be stunned by Dooku when a player online is advancing in the rank, Sidious is not useful in the first turn, Phasma commits a lot of errors, Jedi Consultar is easy to stun by Dooku and has errors on cure, Leia is not useful in the first turn, Asajj Ventress tries to dispel only one positive effect, so there are characters that with a human control are very useful, but, when the AI control, it is more useful put another characters in the last battle to defend the rank.

It is important defend the rank, is not possible be rank #1 all the day, but yes don't lose more than 10 or 20 positions, then it's easy recover the rank #1 again without expend more than 50 crystals or without expend crystals.

My current team (rank #1) is Poggle (L), GS, Poe, Kylo Ren and IG-86, I'm farming IG-88 (almost 6*, gear 8), in 2 weeks I will changue Kylo by IG-88, but maybe IG-88 is better to attack (online) and Kylo better to defend (offline), I need check it.

You can say more AI problems if you want, and more "intelligent" characters to defend the rank :smiley:




10 Replies

  • The AI is made 'dumb' on purpose. Otherwise, devs are affraid that AI using the right skills and focusing the right targets would make the game 'very frustrating' for players.
  • Nice list, but I have a question about AI for Sid and note about Phasma:

    1.How AI's combining Sid and Poggle? I think that Poggle's Droid Assault makes Demoralizing Blows nice opening move, with chances to kill 1-2 enemies on start before healers can do anything (or just take healer out)
    2.Personally I don't like using Victory March on start, because all that Advantage is most times wiped by 2 AoE's (especially if my Phasma attack first). Using Fusillade is more strategic, but just riskier because player team can be finished before will be ready to strike.

    Rest of the points look legit for me and that toons should be fixed at least a bit. Except Ventress, she must be fixed for all costs.
  • "ChaosDoom;181358" wrote:
    One more thing to take note on AI is they tend to switch targets very often.

    Eg. if AI is targeting and attacking on 1 character, it will target another character on the next turn, leaving 2 characters in red and none dead LOL.


    Not always. Occasionally the AI gets it right and I swear I'm facing a human opponent who would employ the strategy I would use.
  • QuimSWGoH's avatar
    QuimSWGoH
    Seasoned Veteran
    10 years ago
    "SDziad;181191" wrote:
    Nice list, but I have a question about AI for Sid and note about Phasma:

    1.How AI's combining Sid and Poggle? I think that Poggle's Droid Assault makes Demoralizing Blows nice opening move, with chances to kill 1-2 enemies on start before healers can do anything (or just take healer out)
    2.Personally I don't like using Victory March on start, because all that Advantage is most times wiped by 2 AoE's (especially if my Phasma attack first). Using Fusillade is more strategic, but just riskier because player team can be finished before will be ready to strike.

    Rest of the points look legit for me and that toons should be fixed at least a bit. Except Ventress, she must be fixed for all costs.


    Poggle always go after Sidious, so Sidious uses her AOE ability without the offense up, and only deals damages of around 3K, it is not very useful, because Luminara will cure the characters, if you want kill one character in the first turn, for example with Geonosian Soldier, and you also have Sidious, that go first, is better deal a basic attack to that character and inflict healing immunity, to prevent the cure ability of Luminara, for example if the enemy have Poe, Luminara can go first than your other 3 characters and Luminara can cure GS, but if you attack GS at the beginning with Sidious with a basic attack, the Luminara's cure will be useless. Also is useful when the enemy have a tank (Poe, Han, Chewbacca...) and you can't kill a character before the taunt, then use the Sidious's AOE to kill that character.

    Also is useful inflict healing immunity to the second character that you want kill, if you are sure that GS will kill the first, for example if the enemy have QGJ (L), Lumi, Yoda, Poggle and Kylo Ren, then the first characters to kill are Yoda and QGJ, first Yoda and second QGJ, then you can inflict healing immunity to QGJ and kill Yoda with GS, then continue attacking QGJ, and then if the enemy Luminara tries to cure QGJ, it will be useless, it means that Luminara loses their cure ability, loses a turn, loses a oportunity to use "Force Blast" and after kill QGJ you can kill Luminara before her "Force Blast" and let for the end Kylo Ren and Poggle.

    So I think that use the Sidious's AOE at the beginning is the same that play with 4 characters in the first turn, not useful to defend the rank. You can see that nowadays the people who have Sidious as leader are not in the Top 20 of the rank, maybe there are 3 or 4 characters that have Sidious as leader, but 1 month ago around 12 of 20 teams had Sidious as leader. The people who have Phasma or Sidious as leader now are between the 30th and 100th position, not in the TOP.

    About Phasma, nowadays the people don't play with 2 characters with AOE ability, nowadays the common teams are with QGJ, Rey, GS, Poggle, Poe, Han, IG-86, Luminara, characters than don't have AOE abilities, and Yoda always need be killed before his AOE; the common characters that have a AOE ability and uses it in the first turn are Sidious, IG-88, HK-47 and Phasma, so in the majority of cases is better use the Victory March at the beginning, also is important because Phasma deals 65% more damage if she has advantage.

    "ChaosDoom;181358" wrote:
    One more thing to take note on AI is they tend to switch targets very often.

    Eg. if AI is targeting and attacking on 1 character, it will target another character on the next turn, leaving 2 characters in red and none dead LOL.


    Is truth, also is something to solve, sometimes the AI attacks 3 different characters at the beginning and then it's easy to cure the characters with Luminara or kill 2 or 3 of his characters before lose a own first character. Would be more intelligent to attack the same character and kill it. Sometimes the AI attacks the same character, but not always.

    "Rysterical;180860" wrote:
    The AI is made 'dumb' on purpose. Otherwise, devs are affraid that AI using the right skills and focusing the right targets would make the game 'very frustrating' for players.


    I think that I would can win battles without AI problems and continue being rank #1 everyday, but now everyone can be in the top 20 if plays 10 battles, I can see teams as Sidious, Poggle, Luminara, Phasma and Dooku in the top 20, when these are teams that must be in the TOP 50th-100th, not in the TOP 20, in the TOP 20 must be teams as QGJ (L), Rey, Yoda, Poggle and Lumi, or teams as Poggle (L), GS, IG-86, IG-88 and Poe, or teams with characters hard to farm, as Kylo Ren, GS, Pooe, QGJ, Daka, RG, Yoda, Dooku, not teams with 100% characters from galactic war and arena shipments, the are people in the top that don't deserve it, and it's because the AI problems.

    Sometimes I can see how a team with Phasma, Han, Lumi, GS and Daka can win my team with Poggle, GS, Poe, IG-86 and Kylo, that I think that it's better, and he can win my team because the AI problems, in the majority of cases he can lose 2 or 3 characters (GS and Daka) before the taunt of Han, but maybe the AI don't attacks Daka first and attacks GS, then Daka revives GS, is more useful attack Daka with GS, then attack GS with IG-86 and don't matter if one of them or both character survive, Kylo can kill one of them or both with the AOE ability, but if the AI does a different thing, then the strategy not works.

  • Hello, Quim, I'm "GILLEON YEH" from Taiwan, the same Server as you. Nice to meet my servermate.
  • QuimSWGoH's avatar
    QuimSWGoH
    Seasoned Veteran
    10 years ago
    "GilleonYeh;184681" wrote:
    Hello, Quim, I'm "GILLEON YEH" from Taiwan, the same Server as you. Nice to meet my servermate.


    LOL hi Gilleon! :smiley: nice to see you also in the forum. You are not a rival because you have a different timezone, so you are my ally =D But sometimes I need play against you to get the rank #1 in my timezone :lol: Taiwan is a nice timezone, only with China, Philippines, Malasya and a part of Australia, in my timezone there are the majority of Europe: Spain, France, Germany, Italy, Norway, Sweden, Poland, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary, etc., but is not a bad timezone, is worse the GMT-4, GMT-5 or GMT-6, and then maybe GMT+1 the 4th worse.
  • Hello, Quim ! :D We can be "ALLY". B) If I resize at #1 on your timezone for get PRIZES,please kick-off me. If I'm on your battle to upper rank, please skip me.
  • QuimSWGoH's avatar
    QuimSWGoH
    Seasoned Veteran
    10 years ago
    "GilleonYeh;185377" wrote:
    Hello, Quim ! :D We can be "ALLY". B) If I resize at #1 on your timezone for get PRIZES,please kick-off me. If I'm on your battle to upper rank, please skip me.


    In the game already we are allies :smiley: The most normal thing is lose 15 or 20 positions when other people are fighting lo join in the TOP 10 of the rank in different time zones, so you don't need play battles the rest of the day, only 1 or 2 hours before the rewards. When I play in my timezone always you are rank #1, so I need play against you to get the first position, but if you are #2 or #3 I will not attack you because usually I get the 1th position from the 4th or 5th position. I think that to maintain the rank is better be 4th, because always someone will atack the #1 and the #2, but the #3 and the #4 are not a priority, and the #5 is the minimum to get the #1 in the next battle, so the best is be #3 or #4 :lol:
  • "GilleonYeh;184681" wrote:
    Hello, Quim, I'm "GILLEON YEH" from Taiwan, the same Server as you. Nice to meet my servermate.

    Hello servermate.

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