Thrawn TM Swap

"BubbaFett;c-1592522" wrote:
Every time you use an ability, every toon on the board gains TM..... That's the way the game works and this ability is no different

That actually is not completely accurate. If 2 characters are at 100% tm and character 1 goes, then character 2 goes, no other toons should be gaining TM inbetween. The TM gains occur when 1 characters turn ends and no one else is at 100%. Exemplified by using zFinn lead, you can just keep getting your characters to 100% never letting the enemy team build up any TM.

So If my thrawn goes and swaps TM with another ally that already had 100% TM then no other characters on the board should be gaining TM and going before either of my characters unless it was from dispelling a debuff or something. Not sure if this scenario is happening but I dont think it should be.

"PiffGuru;c-1592587" wrote:

"BubbaFett;c-1592522" wrote:
Every time you use an ability, every toon on the board gains TM..... That's the way the game works and this ability is no different

That actually is not completely accurate. If 2 characters are at 100% tm and character 1 goes, then character 2 goes, no other toons should be gaining TM inbetween. The TM gains occur when 1 characters turn ends and no one else is at 100%. Exemplified by using zFinn lead, you can just keep getting your characters to 100% never letting the enemy team build up any TM.

So If my thrawn goes and swaps TM with another ally that already had 100% TM then no other characters on the board should be gaining TM and going before either of my characters unless it was from dispelling a debuff or something. Not sure if this scenario is happening but I dont think it should be.

This statement is not completely accurate either. There are many actions that can cause someone else to gain TM during your turn. This can then cause them to be at 100% TM at the same time as your second toon.

Even in the case of finn lead resistance, vs a raid boss, or thrawn or GMY lead. Where applying a buff can grant the other team TM.

There are other examples.

The few cases where I would agree that the toon should without a doubt go next is when it's a selected ally gaining the TM, or TM generated directly from the stated ability of the acting toon(as opposed to a reaction too). Those are actions take specifically to be used as a strategy by the player and should override RNG in those cases.

It would also be nice if there was a FIFO rule, so you dont have multiple toons at 100% going repeatedly before a toon just standing at 100%. But that's just me.

"BubbaFett;c-1592596" wrote:
When you use Thrawn's turn meter swap ability, you are using a turn.... it's no different than using any other ability in the game.... And every time you use an ability, every toon's turn meter goes up.... Not sure what a passive ability or is Zfinn lead has to do with this.....

zFinn lead has something to do with this because using zFinn lead you will consistently give you team TM from popping the many exposes that he allows. Maybe you haven't done this before but when you do and you get the TM rolling you will notice you will go through each of your characters at 100% tm and the enemy team will get 0 until there is finally someone on your team that does not have 100% tm.
So using an ability aka using a turn does not necessarily mean everyone is going to have their TM go up. I was pointing out that everyones TM goes up when you use a turn AND no one else already has 100% tm already.

And the passive ability has to do with a separate case I was making specifically about swapping TM.

"BubbaFett;c-1592582" wrote:
... A very important part of this game is reading kit mechanics and knowing exactly what will happen when you use the ability....

This is exactly the issue. You have no idea what is going to happen next.

"When a debuff on an enemy expires, Empire and Sith allies gain 5% turn meter". Let's just say I've got two toons (Thrawn and target of TM swap) each with three dots, speed down and pain. That's 50% TM gain when Thrawn executes Grand Admiral's Command. So, don't use this skill unless the opposing zEP team has < 50% TM (but wait, is that 49% TM or 51% TM, ah who cares, maybe I'll get lucky...never.gets.to.go).

I'm really not sure how "whose turn is next is random and that's ok" is actually ok in a turn-based strategy game?

"BubbaFett;c-1592633" wrote:

"cannonfodder_iv;c-1592620" wrote:

"BubbaFett;c-1592582" wrote:
... A very important part of this game is reading kit mechanics and knowing exactly what will happen when you use the ability....

This is exactly the issue. You have no idea what is going to happen next.

"When a debuff on an enemy expires, Empire and Sith allies gain 5% turn meter". Let's just say I've got two toons (Thrawn and target of TM swap) each with three dots, speed down and pain. That's 50% TM gain when Thrawn executes Grand Admiral's Command. So, don't use this skill unless the opposing zEP team has < 50% TM (but wait, is that 49% TM or 51% TM, ah who cares, maybe I'll get lucky...never.gets.to.go).

I'm really not sure how "whose turn is next is random and that's ok" is actually ok in a turn-based strategy game?

Don't get me wrong, I don't like the random who goes next at all.... I'm actually more in favor of FIFO like what Kyno said.... I'm just saying there is a difference between swapping TM and giving another toon your turn.....

Folks seem to be assuming that CG's intentions were to have that toon go next. What if their intentions were simply to give TM to a toon that had low TM?....

That's a fair point. We don't know, and it's pointless to discuss beyond that. But that doesn't mean I won't try!!!

I would think if that was their intent, then that's what they would have done, sort of like Rex and R2. Swapping TM, when you know factually that one toon already has 100% TM (by virtue of them taking their turn), to me strongly implies that the target of said swap will be the next toon to go. I understand your argument. It's solid. Based on the letter of the kit, that's what happens. Agreed.

But, can we discuss the correctness of it? Does it make sense that the target of my TM swap actually never gets a chance to go again (it's happened, more than a few times). Is there strategy involved in it? Does the current implementation severely devalue the ability (like CLS' Call to Action)?

There weren't nearly as many passive TM gains when Thrawn was introduced last year. Feels like this one got away from them. I can't really imagine that this was the type of game play they wanted (unpredictable with an option to feel inherently unfair).

I can't read minds but there is evidence that the ability was intended to be a turn swap. The biggest part of this was that it worked as such upon releaae. It wasn't until later when other kits were added that it didn't work as such. Second, the passive tm gain has created other issues with ties that cg has admitted were not intended. So it is most likely that the tm swap not causing the selected toon to go next was also not intended.