Hi there!I've been playing some Sims 2 recently, and while I am enjoying it, the micromanaging side and the dumb AI and pathfinding is really starting to annoy me. But I've been reading posts on here, saying how Sims 2 AI is the best and I have to ask... WHY?For example, say your Sim is serving food in the kitchen, and there's plenty of open table and counter spaces to place the plate on. NOPE! They go STRAIGHT for the bathroom, since there's a counter in there! WHAT?!And for another thing, if you want them to do a series of tasks which involve cleaning up, either you gotta just leave it dirty so they fulfill their needs or watch them closely, while you could be doing more important things (well, important in the Sims, at least.)So Sims 2 lovers, what makes this AI so great? Granted, I'm purely talking about pathfinding here, and making their own choices.

Build your house better. Where's the bathroom counter? Is it closer? Is it better? Why do you have an empty bathroom counter close to the table? I don't know what you mean about 'For another thing." If you want them clean, tell them to clean. They'll clean if they want. Doing something more important to whom~ You or them? Sims are dumb... this isn't a game where you just plot a Sim down and expect it to do everything while you watch. Especially if you think there are "more important things for them to do." -imoI play TS2 because TS4 is boring. TS2 is not boring.

@Rflong7 The Sims are dumb, but the kind of dumb in Sims 2 is a tad more frustrating than funny. The kitchen counters are literally closer to the Sims themselves, yet they still go straight to the bathroom counters. I just cannot fathom how that is possible. I'm not incompetent at building houses, I've been playing Sims for years.And I'd prefer it if they cleaned up on their own, since I have multiple Sims I have to keep an eye on, and I would prefer the kitchen to not be a "death by flies" hazard... maybe I could just hire a maid, now that I'm typing this out.These Sims have skills they need to build, friends to make, and there are the needs to attend to, so days go by surprisingly fast.(I never even brought up Sims 4, so I don't know why it was brought up here *shrug*)

The AI in the Sims 2 is bad by standards of The Sims 4. The Sims 3 in some areas beats it, some areas is weaker. 4 is better overall, however, that's only after 4 years of updates improving it behind the scenes. The base game had some serious AI issues. The Sims 2 Sims have bad pathfinding, they don't prioritise needs, it's almost impossible to give them a huge queue because they drop most of it for no reason. And worst of all, are bipolar to the extreme. People claim Sims 4 is bad, but in Sims 2, you could break up with someone, they would burst into tears, and next minute be all smiles and even laughing to themselves. The memory system in The Sims 2 was literally built to trigger random animations, but Sims themselves didn't have long term feelings. The memory system was an easier way to give the illusion that Sims remember things. They don't, it just triggers an animation every so often based on the event, and otherwise everything is normal. Very rarely, if ever, do we see Sims 4 sims drop features from the queue unless it's caused by a glitch. Occasionally, they will waive their arms around, but only if an interaction isn't possible. And if something happens in The Sims 4, a Sim will react and keep hold of that feeling constantly for a generous amount of time, affecting everything they do. But as I said, it took a few years for the AI to get where it was. 4 when it first came out was trash with AI. But The Sims 2 for it's time had okay AI, but it's console counterparts had much better AI. They had proper emotions and feelings, great pathfinding, prioritised needs and kept to a decent schedule, but still left enough for the player to enjoy.

TS2 was released in 2004. It's AI is AWesome and path finding is Great. Really... you didn't bring up TS4 but we all know what you're talking about. I dislike the queuing in TS4. The lame and pathetic multi-tasking is annoying. Why is it enjoyable? I don't enjoy it. I have no problems with Sims putting plates on the counters. They don't put them on distant counters... Can't even get TS4 Sims to sit and eat together. :lol: *I guess you never read how many times TS4 took the food to make alll the way down or up or over to a Bathroom counter. I remember. I don't read it much anymore. It got so old so fast. :)

"SimFan298;c-16536719" wrote:@Rflong7 The Sims are dumb, but the kind of dumb in Sims 2 is a tad more frustrating than funny. The kitchen counters are literally closer to the Sims themselves, yet they still go straight to the bathroom counters. I just cannot fathom how that is possible. I'm not incompetent at building houses, I've been playing Sims for years.And I'd prefer it if they cleaned up on their own, since I have multiple Sims I have to keep an eye on, and I would prefer the kitchen to not be a "death by flies" hazard... maybe I could just hire a maid, now that I'm typing this out.These Sims have skills they need to build, friends to make, and there are the needs to attend to, so days go by surprisingly fast.(I never even brought up Sims 4, so I don't know why it was brought up here *shrug*)You do realize TS2 Sims don't clean if they don't have five neat points don't you? These Sims have to be trained of what to do from the beginning. If they have only four neat points they are more likely to leave dirty dishes. If they have five points even the kids get on my nerves getting up from table to go straight to wash their dish. And this system has an attraction to object system. If the counter in the bathroom is better than the one in the kitchen or the sink they use the most expensive when possible. If the path is a short cut they use the shortest path. You can use a cheat to see which path they are going to take so you can build a better routing system. Check your object scores to see if they prefer the sink you put in the kitchen or the bathroom. But yes, it's probably due to the bathroom is a better path for them to use a sink. If you had a dishwasher they wouldn't use the bathroom sink by the way.TS2 is the last game of the series that uses the motive system (original system) as the driving force of what they should be doing. TS3 and TS4 don't depend on the motive system as much and Sims in TS3 can't die from hunger for over 48 hours. And TS4 has a fail safe where they will just pull food out of nowhere. TS2 Sims need to eat (depending on personality points such as active) more often than someone who isn't as active. TS2 still uses The Sims original system of motives, and object value, such as how many points of food do they get with a better stove, fridge, and counter, table etc. If those points are better they don't need to eat as often etc. It's the only game left that still adheres to the orginal game. The AI is smarter because once I tell my Sim to make their bed, even if somewhat sloppy (four points of neatness or less) they will probably do that more often than not. But then that would interfere with me using another Sim as the nanny or built in housekeeper.If you have played 'The Sims' for years you would know all this. :) TS2's AI is smarter because of their interaction system, there is no pause or hesitation to interact as in TS3 or the repetitive interactions though social and fun is full like in TS4.ETA: Lol, TS4 Sims dropped things out of queue all the time in my game, it's been reporting hundreds of times. TS2 Sims is the last game where you can queue up eight activities to do. TS3 and TS4 no longer have these feature. It came in an early EP and was annouced so yes, you can queue up to eight things to do. They may move around drinking coffee first since they are smarter than the player in some cases. ETA: If your Sim is attracted to another they may go into the room where they are more often, sometimes this is an unwanted feature depending on the Sims. I didn't want Vickie to be attracted to Roger, but everytime Roger is around she finds an excuse to go into his study. It's a fact these Sims are smarter. And unlike the statements above they do remember it's not a false memory system. My Sim was still mad about a break-in about six weeks later it would pop up sometimes and she would think about the event. It's not a false system as jackjack stated, because if you delete a Sim you cause corruption to the entire memory system in the game. Check gossip speech bubbles they are gossping about real events not made up animations.Example of smarter AI, check the finger print scanner, you see the face of the last Sim who touched a chair, the desk or whatever...smarter AI.P.S. In case no one knows, their Sim will be smarter than the average townie. If you build a lot with a moutain and crest etc. and a very lumpy, crooked path up to the top.. Your Sim can climb it but most townies can't figure it out they will be standing at the bottom waving their arms for route failure but your Sim climbed it without any problem.ETA: Smarter AI, if there is a fire, someone is going to grab the baby and run outside.

What makes the AI so great? | EA Forums

Rflong7
Rising Vanguard
7 years ago
Build your house better. Where's the bathroom counter? Is it closer? Is it better? Why do you have an empty bathroom counter close to the table?

I don't know what you mean about 'For another thing." If you want them clean, tell them to clean. They'll clean if they want.

Doing something more important to whom~ You or them?

Sims are dumb... this isn't a game where you just plot a Sim down and expect it to do everything while you watch. Especially if you think there are "more important things for them to do." -imo

I play TS2 because TS4 is boring. TS2 is not boring.
theAidster21
7 years ago
@Rflong7 The Sims are dumb, but the kind of dumb in Sims 2 is a tad more frustrating than funny. The kitchen counters are literally closer to the Sims themselves, yet they still go straight to the bathroom counters. I just cannot fathom how that is possible. I'm not incompetent at building houses, I've been playing Sims for years.

And I'd prefer it if they cleaned up on their own, since I have multiple Sims I have to keep an eye on, and I would prefer the kitchen to not be a "death by flies" hazard... maybe I could just hire a maid, now that I'm typing this out.

These Sims have skills they need to build, friends to make, and there are the needs to attend to, so days go by surprisingly fast.

(I never even brought up Sims 4, so I don't know why it was brought up here *shrug*)
JackJack_Morris
7 years ago
The AI in the Sims 2 is bad by standards of The Sims 4.

The Sims 3 in some areas beats it, some areas is weaker. 4 is better overall, however, that's only after 4 years of updates improving it behind the scenes. The base game had some serious AI issues.

The Sims 2 Sims have bad pathfinding, they don't prioritise needs, it's almost impossible to give them a huge queue because they drop most of it for no reason. And worst of all, are bipolar to the extreme. People claim Sims 4 is bad, but in Sims 2, you could break up with someone, they would burst into tears, and next minute be all smiles and even laughing to themselves. The memory system in The Sims 2 was literally built to trigger random animations, but Sims themselves didn't have long term feelings. The memory system was an easier way to give the illusion that Sims remember things. They don't, it just triggers an animation every so often based on the event, and otherwise everything is normal.

Very rarely, if ever, do we see Sims 4 sims drop features from the queue unless it's caused by a glitch. Occasionally, they will waive their arms around, but only if an interaction isn't possible. And if something happens in The Sims 4, a Sim will react and keep hold of that feeling constantly for a generous amount of time, affecting everything they do.

But as I said, it took a few years for the AI to get where it was. 4 when it first came out was trash with AI.

But The Sims 2 for it's time had okay AI, but it's console counterparts had much better AI. They had proper emotions and feelings, great pathfinding, prioritised needs and kept to a decent schedule, but still left enough for the player to enjoy.
Rflong7
Rising Vanguard
7 years ago
TS2 was released in 2004. It's AI is AWesome and path finding is Great. Really... you didn't bring up TS4 but we all know what you're talking about.

I dislike the queuing in TS4. The lame and pathetic multi-tasking is annoying. Why is it enjoyable? I don't enjoy it.

I have no problems with Sims putting plates on the counters. They don't put them on distant counters... Can't even get TS4 Sims to sit and eat together. :lol:

*I guess you never read how many times TS4 took the food to make alll the way down or up or over to a Bathroom counter. I remember. I don't read it much anymore. It got so old so fast. :)
Cinebar
7 years ago
"SimFan298;c-16536719" wrote:
@Rflong7 The Sims are dumb, but the kind of dumb in Sims 2 is a tad more frustrating than funny. The kitchen counters are literally closer to the Sims themselves, yet they still go straight to the bathroom counters. I just cannot fathom how that is possible. I'm not incompetent at building houses, I've been playing Sims for years.

And I'd prefer it if they cleaned up on their own, since I have multiple Sims I have to keep an eye on, and I would prefer the kitchen to not be a "death by flies" hazard... maybe I could just hire a maid, now that I'm typing this out.

These Sims have skills they need to build, friends to make, and there are the needs to attend to, so days go by surprisingly fast.

(I never even brought up Sims 4, so I don't know why it was brought up here *shrug*)

You do realize TS2 Sims don't clean if they don't have five neat points don't you? These Sims have to be trained of what to do from the beginning. If they have only four neat points they are more likely to leave dirty dishes. If they have five points even the kids get on my nerves getting up from table to go straight to wash their dish.

And this system has an attraction to object system. If the counter in the bathroom is better than the one in the kitchen or the sink they use the most expensive when possible. If the path is a short cut they use the shortest path. You can use a cheat to see which path they are going to take so you can build a better routing system. Check your object scores to see if they prefer the sink you put in the kitchen or the bathroom. But yes, it's probably due to the bathroom is a better path for them to use a sink. If you had a dishwasher they wouldn't use the bathroom sink by the way.

TS2 is the last game of the series that uses the motive system (original system) as the driving force of what they should be doing. TS3 and TS4 don't depend on the motive system as much and Sims in TS3 can't die from hunger for over 48 hours. And TS4 has a fail safe where they will just pull food out of nowhere. TS2 Sims need to eat (depending on personality points such as active) more often than someone who isn't as active. TS2 still uses The Sims original system of motives, and object value, such as how many points of food do they get with a better stove, fridge, and counter, table etc. If those points are better they don't need to eat as often etc. It's the only game left that still adheres to the orginal game. The AI is smarter because once I tell my Sim to make their bed, even if somewhat sloppy (four points of neatness or less) they will probably do that more often than not. But then that would interfere with me using another Sim as the nanny or built in housekeeper.

If you have played 'The Sims' for years you would know all this. :) TS2's AI is smarter because of their interaction system, there is no pause or hesitation to interact as in TS3 or the repetitive interactions though social and fun is full like in TS4.

ETA: Lol, TS4 Sims dropped things out of queue all the time in my game, it's been reporting hundreds of times. TS2 Sims is the last game where you can queue up eight activities to do. TS3 and TS4 no longer have these feature. It came in an early EP and was annouced so yes, you can queue up to eight things to do. They may move around drinking coffee first since they are smarter than the player in some cases.

ETA: If your Sim is attracted to another they may go into the room where they are more often, sometimes this is an unwanted feature depending on the Sims. I didn't want Vickie to be attracted to Roger, but everytime Roger is around she finds an excuse to go into his study. It's a fact these Sims are smarter. And unlike the statements above they do remember it's not a false memory system. My Sim was still mad about a break-in about six weeks later it would pop up sometimes and she would think about the event. It's not a false system as jackjack stated, because if you delete a Sim you cause corruption to the entire memory system in the game. Check gossip speech bubbles they are gossping about real events not made up animations.

Example of smarter AI, check the finger print scanner, you see the face of the last Sim who touched a chair, the desk or whatever...smarter AI.

P.S. In case no one knows, their Sim will be smarter than the average townie. If you build a lot with a moutain and crest etc. and a very lumpy, crooked path up to the top.. Your Sim can climb it but most townies can't figure it out they will be standing at the bottom waving their arms for route failure but your Sim climbed it without any problem.

ETA: Smarter AI, if there is a fire, someone is going to grab the baby and run outside.
Cinebar
7 years ago
You asked about the attraction system: this is based on the astroloy sign, and their likes and dislikes. It's easy to make Sims attracted to each other in TS2. If my Sim likes black hair, but doesn't prefer someone fat she may or may not have one point of attraction (lightning bolt) to a Sim, other factors have to come into play. This would depend on things like Pisces likes Gemini more, and may like (the same) zombies more and so does the Gemini etc. It is based on three things as I said, their sign, their likes and dislikes. But if the Sim is grumpy (no nice points) though they are attracted it may be harder to build the relationship depending on the grumpy Sim's mood.

ETA: Pisces also likes Cancer sign, too. Snooty Sims used to have a list of which signs preferred which sign. But Pisces prefers Gemini more. Scorpio is attracted to Cancer sign, too. Both will like Sags, too.
Magnezones
7 years ago
"Rflong7;c-16535762" wrote:
Build your house better. Where's the bathroom counter? Is it closer? Is it better? Why do you have an empty bathroom counter close to the table?

Whilst I agree with this fundamentally, I don't think Maxis considered their own AI when building houses, because a lot of the Maxis-built houses suffer from this problem. I've noticed when playing on pre-furnished Maxis-built lots with some oddly placed counters and tables, that Sims tend to go for them instead of kitchen counters and dining room tables.

"Rflong7;c-16535762" wrote:
Sims are dumb... this isn't a game where you just plot a Sim down and expect it to do everything while you watch. Especially if you think there are "more important things for them to do." -imo

I play TS2 because TS4 is boring. TS2 is not boring.

I feel you here. TS4 has this issue when you can plop a sim down with autonomy on, and they'll basically never die. Partially because the needs fall way too slowly, and partially because it's way too hard to die in TS4 without actually purposefully killing them, for whatever reason. I have like 60hrs in TS4 and only one random death, and that was via laughing. I like more spontaneous deaths like that because it makes the game more realistic. If all sims died via old age, it wouldn't really portray real life well. In real life, some people just die young. That's life.

"SimFan298;c-16536719" wrote:
And I'd prefer it if they cleaned up on their own, since I have multiple Sims I have to keep an eye on, and I would prefer the kitchen to not be a "death by flies" hazard... maybe I could just hire a maid, now that I'm typing this out.

You basically answered your own issue. Hire a maid. :tongue:

In all honesty though, Death by Flies should basically never happen in regular game play. You need at least 9 dirty plates piled up in the same room, and even then it's only a chance to happen, but much more likely with low needs. The Death by Flies death is essentially just a punishment for people who don't look after their sims or their environment, and I don't see anything wrong with that personally.

Besides, as other people have said, in this game sims choose to do actions autonomously based on their personality points. I think this is why people are saying they think the game has good AI. If your sim has high neatness, they will autonomously clean up.

"jackjack_k;c-16536795" wrote:
The Sims 2 Sims have bad pathfinding, they don't prioritise needs, it's almost impossible to give them a huge queue because they drop most of it for no reason.

I do however agree with this. Except for the "drop things in a queue for no reason". There usually is a reason. Stairs are a particularly bad problem from my experience. If a sim can't get up the stairs because someone is walking down them already, or a dumb townie is stood at the top of them blocking the way, he or she will drop all actions in his or her queue instead of waiting for the other sim to get out of the way. TS4 is definitely smarter in that regard.

And whilst sims don't prioritise needs as much as in the later games, I'd also argue that it's your job to be looking after your sims and not the game's. But really, that point has little to do with the quality of the AI.

Really, when it comes to what you think of the AI, it depends what you're looking for. TS4's AI is kind of programmed to essentially play the game for you, and I don't like that at all personally, I find it boring.
theAidster21
7 years ago
I personally still don't see why everyone makes the statement of The Sims 2's Sim AI being the best in the series, because it's arguably one of the worst. Sims 3's isn't TOO much better (tapping feet while next to a doorway will prove that much) but in my opinion, it's an improvement on The Sims 2's.

Also, I may be in the minority here, but I kinda dislike the original point based system. I grew up on it, but I much prefer the traits of The Sims 3, since I feel it makes Sims more unique in that one, despite acting sorta robotic. Sims 2 definitely has the "less robotic" thing over Sims 3, although they COULD stop staring at me and creeping me out :|

@Cinebar I never asked about an attraction system, did I?
theAidster21
7 years ago
"Magnezone;c-16537860" wrote:
"SimFan298;c-16537815" wrote:
Also, I may be in the minority here, but I kinda dislike the original point based system. I grew up on it, but I much prefer the traits of The Sims 3, since I feel it makes Sims more unique in that one, despite acting sorta robotic. Sims 2 definitely has the "less robotic" thing over Sims 3, although they COULD stop staring at me and creeping me out :|

I like the point system, but I also like traits too. If there was a way to combine both, like personality points determine basic personality (shy v outgoing, mean vs nice etc), traits add quirks and interests (i.e. geeky, creative, etc), I'd prefer that. I find both systems as they are too limiting. TS3 handles personalities best, every sim feels different, and I honestly think TS4 handles it the worst. Every sim feels very similar, at least to me, regardless of traits.

As for the breaking-the-fourth-wall thing, there's a mod on MTS that stops sims staring directly at the camera. It doesn't bother me, personally, however.

I honestly still feel like traits in Sims 4 still does change a Sim's personality, at least to me. A lot of personality is how you play those Sims, in my eyes. But yeah, a combination of the two would be pretty cool. Best of both worlds and all.
Rflong7
Rising Vanguard
7 years ago
I, personally, disagree with you on all your points. TS2 has better AI than all the others. You asked us why and we can give it but you disagree... fine, Yeah! for you. It's better imo... and that's why I love it. I don't have your problems so, I see your view as... wrong. I like them to be a game more than a movie.