Gender Neutral Options.

"somewhsome;c-17887840" wrote:

Do you have that choices though?
Game constantly populates worlds with sims. I don't think it's possible to get rid of a certain type of sims without mods — if you don't have enough elders in your game, it generates some. If you delete all the celebrities, it generates new ones, and I don't think you can delete all dogs too, because new strays will appear.

As far as I know ? I don't have GF so can't speak for generated celebs and while I dislike the toddler lifestage, I don't delete them - I just don't play families who have them.
I've only ever deleted premade dogs in my game and I don't see any around - even strays (though admittedly I don't go looking for them).
But the point is, I have that choice and it should be the same if they bring in gender neutrality.

"ktalexander;c-17887814" wrote:

"CAPTAIN_NXR7;c-17887636" wrote:

"ktalexander;c-17887515" wrote:


Just out of curiosity, if someone was posting on this forum about how they wanted a toggle to get rid of every Sim of a particular skin tone, particularly if it was a skin tone that matched people who have traditionally been oppressed in real life, can you imagine how that would sound?

Nobody is forcing you to love people outside of your comfort zone, but it is hurtful when you say that these people should be able to be turned off with a toggle. Yes, I know that you're talking about Sims, but given it mimics language that is heard in day to day life for some people, it is still hurtful.

Except nobody was doing that. Not in this thread anyway. That’s just folks turning it into something it isn’t.

But even so, why would there be a problem with asking for an option to turn off specific genetics? What if I only want blue Sims in my game, because in that specific save I prefer to play with Smurfs. Or an alien colony with pointy ears and big roundy eyes? Sorry Asians, Blacks, Whites, or Whatever you are, you’re not welcome. Just gotta turn you off there for a moment. This is Planet Green Skin Pointy Ears and Roundy Eyes.

So what? This is the Sims after all. Doesn’t mean I’m some kind of racist or bigot for asking. If someone’s hurt by that kind of request I guess that’s their problem.

"logion;c-17887575" wrote:

I think it's important to consider what can be added to this game. Simply saying "everything" is not realistic. I don't think everyone would want genders to be replaced with body type in the game for example. So I don't think asking for a toggle is unreasonable at all.

I agree. I think it’s very important for the team to develop tools that help us create anything or anybody we want. That’s the beauty of a life simulator, especially if it’s done well. The more options, the better. Whether that’s achieved by including toggles in CAS or in game shouldn’t make any difference, as long as the choice is ours.

When it comes to representing specific gender identities I just wonder how this will be added to the game that we currently have, without leaving anyone out. I just read that there are 72 genders! Probably more by the end of next year.

I do remember when the Pride flags were included in an update, one specific flag was omitted which caused a massive uproar. This is what I’m talking about. Where do you stop? If and when we get a non-binary toggle, another group wants something else. And so on and so forth.

I believe the Sims 4 core engine needs an overhaul and additional tools/ algorithms to make this whole inclusiveness thing meaningful for everybody.

I have less of an issue with wanting an entire world of fantasy people than I do with turning off actual real world types of people in typical "realistic"* game play. I will always think it is bigotted to say "these types of people who are doing no harm to me should not exist" and I don't get the impression it's the ethos that the creators of the franchise stand behind. I don't think it would make sense in this sort of game.

I feel like I'm talking to a wall with much of this discussion. I think it's important for people who are reading it and possibly not feeling safe expressing their opinions towards inclusivity to know that they are not alone, which is why I joined in the conversation initially.

One last thing I can't help but to comment on is your statement of, "If someone’s hurt by that kind of request I guess that’s their problem." If you're knowingly hurting people, that says something about you, not them.

*Realistic as a world with cow plants and alien abductions can get...

I don't think there is any thing wrong with people wanting options for there game
but you shouldn't call people names are say nasty things about others it against the rules of the forum
you might get in trouble and surly you can make a point with out calling others evil or bad

"FlpAmaral;c-17887845" wrote:
Why are you all so worried about it being optional or not when we already have some gender customization in game? Do you see any random generated townies with opposite body frames to their gender? No, you don't because that's optional. I think we have a pattern here, no?

"Justin;c-17887464" wrote:

"CAPTAIN_NXR7;c-17887109" wrote:
I have a simple question because I am but a simple man...He/Him/Dude or IT on days when I look like a clown.

If gender neutral was to be added aren’t there other gender identities that need to be added? Or how should I see this? How does this work? Should I not call it gender identity?
You have to forgive me but googling anything gender related these days confuses me.

I understand folks want to be represented ‘n all, but from a developers point of view I can imagine that trying to implement different gender identities and different pronouns and make it work for everybody (without offending anyone) would be a complete and utter nightmare!

Which genders should be included, or is it only the additional one (gender neutral) and then everybody will be happy?

Theres a reason why these pronouns don’t exist for made up genders in other languages. Because there’s only two genders & they exist in the game already. You can’t change your chromosome based on how you feel. If that was the case I’d be a hairy mermaid out at sea waiting for my hunk sailor boy. But I’d end up being locked up for being a danger to myself?

You can be whatever you want. :smile: Btw, you don't get to decide how many genders there are. Gender is different from sex, maybe do a research on that :smile:

What I think about gender is my own right. Just like you want to believe there’s more then 2 genders. I’m not going to get into it with you.

My problem is how they’re going to implement this without ruining MY game or anyone else’s play style. Rather then trying to prove a point maybe offer some suggestions to prevent my beliefs & play style from being affected.
There’s so many genders & identities that not everyone will be included. How will they accommodate that?
No one is saying not to implement it. Everyone wants the option to turn it off.

"CelSims;c-17888038" wrote:

"Kironide;c-17887037" wrote:
You might want to add pan sexual and asexual :)

And take out the one that is a job/hobby :D

Gotta love the positive sentiment :D

"MagicaCat;c-17887657" wrote:

"ktalexander;c-17887515" wrote:
Instead of a toggle, maybe treat it like real life and if you don't like someone for some reason like race or gender, don't interact with that person/Sim.

But it's not real life.

If I want to delete every SIM toddler in the game because I don't like playing with them I have that option.
If I want to delete every dog in the game because I don't like dogs, I have that option.
If I want to populate my world with aliens and have no humans at all, I have that choice.
If they force gender neutrality into my game, I want the choice to turn it off.

But you do have the choice. You can delete them, like you said with toddlers. To my knowledge, there's no toggle anywhere in the game that removes toddlers, or dogs for that matter, so why would there be a toggle to remove this?

Another thing (in edit: this isn't targeted to you btw just a general statement because of some posts I've read on the thread). They aren't going to remove gender. Just because they change the pronouns in popups to be gender neutral doesn't mean that gender is being removed. In the event they add a non-binary gender into cas, I can only imagine that it will be optional (like the custom gender settings we have right now).

Honestly, I don't see how they'd do it, but I'd love to see it happen.

Of course they could use Simlish as that's what the Sims speak, so the pronouns could be unlimited in that! :)

"greydonn;c-17888049" wrote:

"MagicaCat;c-17887657" wrote:

"ktalexander;c-17887515" wrote:
Instead of a toggle, maybe treat it like real life and if you don't like someone for some reason like race or gender, don't interact with that person/Sim.

But it's not real life.

If I want to delete every SIM toddler in the game because I don't like playing with them I have that option.
If I want to delete every dog in the game because I don't like dogs, I have that option.
If I want to populate my world with aliens and have no humans at all, I have that choice.
If they force gender neutrality into my game, I want the choice to turn it off.

But you do have the choice. You can delete them, like you said with toddlers. To my knowledge, there's no toggle anywhere in the game that removes toddlers, or dogs for that matter, so why would there be a toggle to remove this?

Another thing (in edit: this isn't targeted to you btw just a general statement because of some posts I've read on the thread). They aren't going to remove gender. Just because they change the pronouns in popups to be gender neutral doesn't mean that gender is being removed. In the event they add a non-binary gender into cas, I can only imagine that it will be optional (like the custom gender settings we have right now).

Honestly, I don't see how they'd do it, but I'd love to see it happen.

but if they change the popups to be gender neutral are sims will not be call he or she any more
I like my sim being a she and being called that isn't that what you want for your sims to be called what you like
having the popups to be gender neutral would just take away from everyone @greydonn
it would take away from trans sims to because then they can't be called he or she

"comicsforlife;c-17888089" wrote:

"greydonn;c-17888049" wrote:

"MagicaCat;c-17887657" wrote:

"ktalexander;c-17887515" wrote:
Instead of a toggle, maybe treat it like real life and if you don't like someone for some reason like race or gender, don't interact with that person/Sim.

But it's not real life.

If I want to delete every SIM toddler in the game because I don't like playing with them I have that option.
If I want to delete every dog in the game because I don't like dogs, I have that option.
If I want to populate my world with aliens and have no humans at all, I have that choice.
If they force gender neutrality into my game, I want the choice to turn it off.

But you do have the choice. You can delete them, like you said with toddlers. To my knowledge, there's no toggle anywhere in the game that removes toddlers, or dogs for that matter, so why would there be a toggle to remove this?

Another thing (in edit: this isn't targeted to you btw just a general statement because of some posts I've read on the thread). They aren't going to remove gender. Just because they change the pronouns in popups to be gender neutral doesn't mean that gender is being removed. In the event they add a non-binary gender into cas, I can only imagine that it will be optional (like the custom gender settings we have right now).

Honestly, I don't see how they'd do it, but I'd love to see it happen.

but if they change the popups to be gender neutral are sims will not be call he or she any more
I like my sim being a she and being called that isn't that what you want for your sims to be called what you like
having the popups to be gender neutral would just take away from everyone @greydonn
it would take away from trans sims to because then they can't be called he or she

My sim's daughter is still their daughter even if the popup saying she got an A refers to her as "they". My sims son is still their son, and their nonbinary child is still their nonbinary child.

If I refer to a stranger as "they", and they're a women, it doesn't make them not a women.

"ktalexander;c-17887814" wrote:
I have less of an issue with wanting an entire world of fantasy people than I do with turning off actual real world types of people in typical "realistic"* game play. I will always think it is bigotted to say "these types of people who are doing no harm to me should not exist" and I don't get the impression it's the ethos that the creators of the franchise stand behind. I don't think it would make sense in this sort of game.

Having a couple of extra options would make sense in my game. I don’t care about your game or anybody else’s game. The more options we all get, the better. Realistic gameplay or totally fantasy? Doesn’t matter. Everybody happy (ish).

I’ll quote again:

I will always think it is bigotted to say "these types of people who are doing no harm to me should not exist"...

What if they didn’t suit a particular story? Hear me out:

• If I want to “turn off” all the natural blondes and pale skins in Selvadorada because I think that world feels more authentic with only a couple of locals, so what? Bye bye Nancy & Co. I’ve done it before and I’ll do it all over again.
  
• If I want Mt. Komorebi to only have hetero sexual Japanese female inhabitants who eat from hot pots and nothing else, again, so what? If that means manually deleting all Sims except females with Japanese genetics so be it.
  
• If I need an all white gay neighborhood because my story needs an all white gay neighborhood I’ll delete everything in there that’s not white and not gay. My game, my story, my choice.
  

Sorry for hurting anybody’s feelings for even mentioning it. If folks want to call me a bigot because I choose to delete a certain group of Sims in my game when it makes sense in my game, in my story, sure, that’s their choice. I just want options is all. Of course we’re not getting toggles for turning off or deleting Sims with specific genetics. Thank goodness for testing cheats enabled on. And mods.

I feel like I'm talking to a wall with much of this discussion. I think it's important for people who are reading it and possibly not feeling safe expressing their opinions towards inclusivity to know that they are not alone, which is why I joined in the conversation initially.

In that case I’m a huge wall who has no problem with inclusivity but simply needs options in game. Nobody has to feel unsafe around a wall. Walls just kinda stand there being a wall. If somebody doesn’t like the wall, they should climb and get over it.

One last thing I can't help but to comment on is your statement of, "If someone’s hurt by that kind of request I guess that’s their problem." If you're knowingly hurting people, that says something about you, not them.

Knowingly hurt people? Of course. That’s because I’m Mister Evil Mind Reader.
I suppose I’m potentially hurting people by simply participating in discussions on this forum. Somebody’s gonna get hurt by someone else’s opinion. If they let it hurt them, of course.

Here, I apologize for all the times I insulted folks with my opinions. And I apologize in advance, too. It probably won’t be the last time this will happen. I’m psychic that way.

Now, Maxis, how about more options, less nerfing and more gameplay? Thank you. ?

"greydonn;c-17888091" wrote:

"comicsforlife;c-17888089" wrote:

"greydonn;c-17888049" wrote:

"MagicaCat;c-17887657" wrote:

"ktalexander;c-17887515" wrote:
Instead of a toggle, maybe treat it like real life and if you don't like someone for some reason like race or gender, don't interact with that person/Sim.

But it's not real life.

If I want to delete every SIM toddler in the game because I don't like playing with them I have that option.
If I want to delete every dog in the game because I don't like dogs, I have that option.
If I want to populate my world with aliens and have no humans at all, I have that choice.
If they force gender neutrality into my game, I want the choice to turn it off.

But you do have the choice. You can delete them, like you said with toddlers. To my knowledge, there's no toggle anywhere in the game that removes toddlers, or dogs for that matter, so why would there be a toggle to remove this?

Another thing (in edit: this isn't targeted to you btw just a general statement because of some posts I've read on the thread). They aren't going to remove gender. Just because they change the pronouns in popups to be gender neutral doesn't mean that gender is being removed. In the event they add a non-binary gender into cas, I can only imagine that it will be optional (like the custom gender settings we have right now).

Honestly, I don't see how they'd do it, but I'd love to see it happen.

but if they change the popups to be gender neutral are sims will not bge call he or she any more
I like my sim being a she and being called that isn't that what you want for your sims to be called what you like
having the popups to be gender neutral would just take away from everyone @greydonn
it would take away from trans sims to because then they can't be called he or she

My sim's daughter is still their daughter even if the popup saying she got an A refers to her as "they". My sims son is still their son, and their nonbinary child is still their nonbinary child.

If I refer to a stranger as "they", and they're a women, it doesn't make them not a women.

so it shouldn't matter to you if there are gender neutral pop ups because your gender neutral sims is still gender neutral no matter
what there called @greydonn