Re: Feedback: Release "Wedding Stories" in Russia

Well if you actually checked the laws as you said, you would know they can release the covert art with the lesbian couple, because the game is alreary rated 18+. They couldn't do that if the game wasn't rated this way. Carnival Kit was also released, even though Russia is againts men with feminine attire, like clothes, nail, or even drag queens

@PatrickClSim3Low 

The game is rated teen. I may be wrong about this but I do not believe Russia has laws against what you mentioned here, There are laws against homosexuals regardless if you are 18 or not.

So, disclaimer: I'm not Russian, I'm not a lawyer, blah blah blah.

This is the law they're talking about: https://www.humandignitytrust.org/wp-content/uploads/resources/Briefing_on_Russias_federal_anti-propaganda_law.pdf

So yes, the game is already 18+ in Russia and therefore the pack itself would be allowed.

However, the marketing is a whole other thing. The video trailer definitely violates the example "Using emotionally charged images for discrediting the traditional family model and promoting alternative family models. For example, a couple in non-traditional sexual relations can be represented as bright and charming." Also "Social approval. For example, direct or indirect approval of people who are in non-traditional sexual relations." So they would have to redo all their marketing, or just not advertise in Russia at all.

I'm also not aware of whether just the cover image in Origin counts as "propaganda to minors." There are "child accounts," and while I find people complaining about whether they can play certain games online I'm not seeing transparent descriptions of how age limits work in Origin. Again, not Russian, not a lawyer, and therefore can't say whether that would be a legal issue or not. That said, from Wikipedia:  "In November 2014, one day after current Apple Inc. CEO Tim Cook publicly announced that he was proud of being gay, it was reported that an iPhone-shaped memorial honoring its late co-founder Steve Jobs had been removed from a Saint Petersburg university campus by its installer, the West European Financial Union (ZEFS). It was alleged that the memorial was removed due to the law because it was in an area frequented by minors." (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_gay_propaganda_law)

Again, not a lawyer, not Russian. I hope that helps anyway.

Well not. The game is rated 18+ in Russia just like any other game or book, movie or show featuring LGBTQ+ themes. The Russian law  is againts "propaganda of LGBTQ+" among minors. Russians under 18 can't legally play the game, because it is againts this law. But this law doesn't ban the cover art because the game is already 18+. If it was againts law, then Carnival kit or Menswear Kit wouldn't be released as well, because they have cover art with possible LGBTQ themes (this law even bans different gender expressions, therefore men wearing skirts would be also againts law if it was promoted to minors). With that being said, they also made a post for Pride Month on Russian website or they featured gay couple in the Dogs and Cats EP

It is also worth to mention that this situation also affects players from Ukraine and players from Commonwealth of Independent States who are considered by EA as one region, regardless that Ukraine and most of the countries of CIS have different laws that don't ban anything. And someone noted that even countries like Czechia, Poland or Slovakia could be affected because they might be considered to be in a same region as well, regardless that these countries (except Poland) are LGBTQ friendly 

Fair enough, I'll happily cede the point on whether the cover art in Origin is an issue. I also agree that if it affects players in the Ukraine and other countries that aren't Russia that's not fair.

I still think it's about the marketing, and not wanting to create new, censored marketing materials. I'm not saying that as a statement that this is a positive or negative thing, by the way, just that... they don't want to create new marketing.

I'm with @losterkun  and @PatrickClSim3Low on this.  The game has had LGBT stories for quite a while now; Island Living's Oliana and Leila, Eco Lifestyle's Yasemin and Tina, Cats & Dogs' Brent and Brant, Cottage Living's Derek and Ian.  What's different with the wedding pack?  Perhaps the Sims team could further explain how Cam and Dom's story would have to change exactly.  The reason, conveyed in the team's released statement, is extremely vague.  I really hope it's not a marketing issue.  I really hope it's not some kind of stance that EA is taking against one particular government's policies, because that's only punishing the people for their government's views.  I sincerely doubt that withholding video game content is going to encourage some change among those in power.  Instead of bowing to an oppressive policy, find a way to make it work so that the people continue to have more outlets for self expression.

I have deeply, deeply mixed feelings about this issue.

I'm a queer/LGBTQIA/QUILTBAG Simmer myself, and I really don't want EA to censor their marketing materials to comply with homophobic laws. I also don't want Russian LGBTQIA Simmers to miss out on the pack because of this law. Unfortunately, I don't have any great suggestions!

When I say that it's the Marketing, I'm not trying to imply that it's some kind of stunt. I sincerely believe that the Sims team care deeply about their game, and about this story. It would be incredibly disheartening to come up with the wonderful trailer they created and then have to completely gut the story in order to play it in some markets. ☹️  I also don't want them to market the pack as "Our pack is SO SHOCKING!!!!! that we can't show footage in Russia!!!!! BUY IT BUY IT BUY IT IT'S SHOCKING!!!!!!!" ☹️  It's not shocking! It's a cute love story!

All that said: I think the difference is that... the Cats and Dogs trailer in the US showed Brent and Brant getting married and their pets wearing bow ties. I don't know if they cut that footage for markets that wouldn't allow it, but they can't cut Cam and Dom out of the trailer and still have a trailer.

All THAT said, I think that the LGBTQIA market in Russia is a vulnerable population, and, you know, we should probably listen to the vulnerable population that's being hurt. (Not that I know how to do that and still market the pack. A solid black or solid white cover in Russia? AAAAAAA!)

@mahpella 

Yes, Russia have a propaganda law against LGBT+ people. If you wish to discuss the law I suggest you try Quora or similar. This is not the place for it.

@mahpella  If I'm reading Russia's anti-propanda laws correctly, positive depictions of same-sex couples are considered "propaganda." This is a quote from a site that collects legal information related to same-sex relationships.

The Service for Supervision of Communications, Information and Mass Media (Roskomnadzor), is the federal executive body tasked with monitoring the media, and ensuring compliance with federal laws and obligations.

In November 2013 Roskomnadzor issued further guidelines by way of a concept note on the enforcement of the Anti-Propaganda Law.2Section 11 of the concept note provides a list of the full spectrum of possible neutral or positive mentions of homosexuality, bisexuality and transgender issues that might violate the Anti-Propaganda Law:

• ‘Discrediting the traditional family model’ and ‘promoting alternative models of family relations’ with the following explanation: ‘For example, many sites that promote non-traditional relations, quote statistical data on the adoption of children by homosexual and heterosexual couples. Taken out of broader context, this information can form in children and adolescents the idea that a gay couple can cope with parental responsibilities not worse than a heterosexual one.’
• ‘Using emotionally charged images for discrediting the traditional family model and promoting alternative family models. For example, a couple in non-traditional sexual relations can be represented as bright and charming. For example, a couple in a heterosexual marriage can be represented as rude or repulsive.’
• ‘Personalised examples. For example, stories and narratives of people who deny family values, who are in non-traditional sexual relations, who show disrespect for parents and (or) other family members.’
• ‘Lack of critical approach. For example, messages containing appeals, orders, comments, suggestions, etc. (containing information about non-traditional sexual relations [...] conscious and critical perception and understanding of which by a child is difficult ...).’
• ‘Alternative models of behaviour. For example, a clear demonstration (through images, photos or videos) of non-traditional sexual relations.’
• ‘Alternative standards for identification. For example, a clear demonstration (through images, photos or videos) of non-traditional sexual relations.’
• ‘Social approval. For example, direct or indirect approval of people who are in non-traditional sexual relations.’
  

https://www.humandignitytrust.org/wp-content/uploads/resources/Briefing_on_Russias_federal_anti-propaganda_law.pdf

In short, it basically looks like any reference to same-sex couples without immediately following up that reference with a statement like "Which, as we all know, is a VILE SIN that will lead to BURNING IN HELL FOR ALL ETERNITY CRACKLE CRACKLE CRACKLE!!!! Also all your friends will hate you!" is illegal unless the listener is over 18. But, you know, THINK OF THE CHILDREN and make sure they can make up their own minds about who they are! *eyeroll*

But I digress.

If you've seen the US trailer on YouTube, it violates several of these examples, including the bride's family approving of the fact that she leaves a boy at the altar for a girl, and presenting the same-couple as bright and charming. Even the boy who's left at the altar approves of this behavior! they stay friends and he gives her away at her wedding to another woman. All while playing a Simlish version of a popular romantic song from the US. This trailer would not fly in Russia, and I 100% support them not changing it.

CM EDIT: Edited language. Please don't curse, even if you're using *'s.

@xochiquetzl_xkvn  As a gay man, I am absolutely mortified by the existence of such a policy.  I also fully support the Sims team not changing the trailer.  However, I don't think this is just about the trailer.  As others have mentioned, the game is rated 18+ in Russia.  I'm guessing that means marketing for such content is also regulated by some sort of age requirement to view it.  Even if this does revolve around marketing and the trailer itself, who says they need to even market it.  People know it's coming, especially now with all this publicity.  Maybe that's part of a strategy?  Whatever the case, there seems to be something else going on here that isn't being addressed openly.

@JonaO703 

They will likely be able to buy a code online in another country to circumvent this.

@JonaO703  Yeah, unless they're more specific we really can't say whether it's the marketing, the trailer, or whatever. I'm just going on my gut that there is a business/marketing issue that they don't want to compromise on.

My guess is that, well. "Who says they even need to market it?" Probably EA. I don't know what the costs of distribution are, if any, beyond localization of course. But I imagine that there is a money person somewhere saying, "No, you cannot sell to Russia at a loss; we're a for-profit company. Market it." Note: I do not work for EA/Maxis but do work for a non-video-game software company.  Is it free to just offer it in the Origin store, since Origin is theirs? probably? But localization, etc., is not free. They have translation teams that need to be paid and receive all their other company benefits--for non-US folks, federal income tax comes out of salaries, our health care is paid for by our employers and is either super expensive or crappy (and these folks would get the good stuff), etc. etc. There might be other costs that I'm not thinking of because I'm a computer person and not a money person, lol. So take what I have to say with a nerdy grain of salt.

@xochiquetzl_xkvn  Тогда почему они в письмах для всего мира ссылались на федеральные законы? А для нас, русскоговорящего комьюнити, о федеральном законе ничего не написали. И почему они упомянули только Россию, но забыли сказать, что другие страны СНГ тоже лишаются набора? 

Почему они буквально недавно продавали каталог "Карнавал", а тут вдруг что-то изменилось? 

Тем более, почему в других странах. где тоже есть запреты на однополые браки, запреты пропаганды ЛГБТ+ этот игровой набор выходит, а именно нас решили обделить? 

Почему мы четвертый день просим от EA дать нам обратную связь, а нас игнорируют. Отключают чаты на трансляциях. 

Неужели вся эта пресловутая толерантность и терпимость заканчивается там, где начинаются границы стран СНГ? Неужели в мусульманских странах к ЛГБТ+ относятся лояльнее, чем у нас?

При том, что у нас выходят и книги, и сериалы, которые показывают и рассказывают о любви однополых пар. 

Неужели вы правда думаете, что перевод на русский язык все эти года, как выходит Sims был финансово невыгоден? Ведь его использовали не только в России, но и в других странах СНГ, и русскоязычные игроки на территории всего мира. 

In Muslim countries, LGBT is prohibited for religious reasons, in China and Morocco, the punishment for homosexual relations is up to the death penalty. Why will the set be released in these countries, but not in Russia? Stop mixing game and politics!