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- Beardedgeek724 years agoNew SpectatorThe responses to this makes me feel really sad; so many people feeling genuinely attacked by it, somehow.
Even using words like "cringe" and other dismissive language to show disrespect.
Just like many did when the gender options appeared, or when trans and genderqueer premades appeared (the fact that so many "nice simmers" spend hours "remake" the trans premades is really sad to me and shows an immense lack of understanding and respect. - Beardedgeek724 years agoNew Spectator
"LiELF;c-18039701" wrote:
See, this is the main problem that I see people having with the entire pronoun argument. It leads into gay/straight erasure
Sorry, but that is an outright lie, and sound like the typical argument of anti-trans hate groups. - Sharooonia4 years agoNew Spectator
"Onverser;c-18039670" wrote:
Also from what they were saying this is most likely how it'd look in game
https://i.imgur.com/dqqn232.png
This looks cluttered, I very much hope I am not going to be forced to have it displayed like this, - LeccaLovesYou4 years agoNew SpectatorReally upsetting that a game that allows us to customize characters is giving us more customization options. I already decide my sims name, age, clothes, hair color, eye color, traits, preferences, posture, foot size, how far their ears stick out, etc. but I draw the line at having to click a drop down menu. And they want us to have a few more words on the screen??? They’ve gone too far. Seems like they’re going to continue making sims more complex, personable, and unique. Soon everyone will be able to make sims exactly how they want. How terrible.
- crocobaura4 years agoSeasoned Ace
"Beardedgeek;c-18039733" wrote:
The responses to this makes me feel really sad; so many people feeling genuinely attacked by it, somehow.
Even using words like "cringe" and other dismissive language to show disrespect.
Just like many did when the gender options appeared, or when trans and genderqueer premades appeared (the fact that so many "nice simmers" spend hours "remake" the trans premades is really sad to me and shows an immense lack of understanding and respect.
I can understand someone transgendered wanting to use and to make sure people use correct pronouns when addressing them, as a courtesy. What I cannot understand is this pronouns badge that everyone suddenly needs to display against their profile that should somehow disambiguate their gender. Most people don't need that, and frankly it's a bit insulting to ask someone about their pronouns when they are obviously either male or female, regardless of whatever clothes they are wearing. Also, simmers have the right to do whatever they like in their game, as it's their game, no need to judge people on remaking premades and what not. - EA_Cade4 years agoCommunity Manager
"LiELF;c-18039701" wrote:
Okay. Here's my thing. As I said in another thread, I like that they made the options flexible. People are free to make up whatever they want. But I also do not want any pronouns showing up in live mode with the Sim's name. This is where the game stops being the fictional world of my own choosing ("play your way", right??) and starts to force real world drama into my face. The whole reason I play this game is to create my own world, how I want it, and as far away from reality as I want it. My Sims don't need gender identity because they are fictional beings in a fictional world existing in fictional ways and they don't have social politics. They don't need pronouns, especially in real world languages because they speak Simlish. They don't need inclusion because it's not an issue in the first place in their world. So I would very much appreciate it if we could default to a Sim's sex, the way all of the past games have, and make this pronoun thing optional altogether.
I know it's going to be hard for some people to understand, but I play this game for escapism, amusement, laughter and to weave whatever my creativity demands in the moment. My real life has been hard and I want to leave it behind when I load up the game. I don't play for political ideals or realistic life conquests or Utopias. I play for me. And if the company truly wants to claim inclusivity, how about sticking to the long-time brand idea that every player makes the game what they want it to be? Isn't that the purpose of the Sims 4 campaign when they say things like, "you do you, wherever you want to"? The entire pronoun movement is for a specific group of people. Power to them, they should have it in their games if they want it, I'm not trying to contradict that. But why does it look like it's becoming a core focus that all players are going to have to deal with? Are rotational players who play a bazillion Sims (like me) going to have to go through a bunch of nonsense and select pronouns for every single one just so the game can recognize them? And what happens if we don't? Where does the game default? If it defaults to non-binary because of the language of pronouns, then does that mean the mechanics will never be able to incorporate sexual identities like gay or straight? Because that's a problem. You can't claim to be "inclusive" and not allow for sexual identities too, especially when past games did.
See, this is the main problem that I see people having with the entire pronoun argument. It leads into gay/straight erasure because suddenly people aren't "allowed" to have gender (or rather, sex) preferences or it's considered some kind of phobic. I have a gay friend who plays Sims and straight up wants all of his Sims to be exclusively gay. I have a lesbian friend who is self-described "butch" who is constantly being "pronoun analyzed" in real life because she wears men's clothes, plays male characters in rpgs and renaissance faires and has male alter egos, yet proudly identifies as a woman and wants an exclusively female world. But in seven years our Sims haven't even shown a semblance of sexual identity and even autonomously flirt with random other Sims. We have no way of choosing preferences and the game doesn't seem to even acknowledge our choices. If all Sims become gender neutral by default just so the scripting can accommodate pronouns, does this mean we will never have these choices? I'm sorry, but that's upsetting.
I don't really want to be the one running around and yelling "the sky is falling" because of one sneak peek. Maybe in the end it will all work out. But I do want to make sure that the devs have truly considered what they're doing and how it will affect the game (and players) down the line.
I feel that the team showed yesterday that they were approaching this topic with respect and a healthy amount of caution that it deserves, and that they also showed that this was far from fully fleshed out at the current stage as all the in game content showcased was a work in progress.
I've no idea if this will be an optional aspect that can be enabled/disabled or not, but there is a lot of speculation in your post and other posts in this thread at the moment, none of which has been formally announced by Maxis.
All I'm asking is that you reserve judgement until we have more to offer you in terms of information on this project. - Beardedgeek724 years agoNew Spectator
"dearie_blossom;c-18039750" wrote:
"Icewolf;c-18039726" wrote:
"LiELF;c-18039701" wrote:
Okay. Here's my thing. As I said in another thread, I like that they made the options flexible. People are free to make up whatever they want. But I also do not want any pronouns showing up in live mode with the Sim's name. This is where the game stops being the fictional world of my own choosing ("play your way", right??) and starts to force real world drama into my face. The whole reason I play this game is to create my own world, how I want it, and as far away from reality as I want it. My Sims don't need gender identity because they are fictional beings in a fictional world existing in fictional ways and they don't have social politics. They don't need pronouns, especially in real world languages because they speak Simlish. They don't need inclusion because it's not an issue in the first place in their world. So I would very much appreciate it if we could default to a Sim's sex, the way all of the past games have, and make this pronoun thing optional altogether.
I know it's going to be hard for some people to understand, but I play this game for escapism, amusement, laughter and to weave whatever my creativity demands in the moment. My real life has been hard and I want to leave it behind when I load up the game. I don't play for political ideals or realistic life conquests or Utopias. I play for me. And if the company truly wants to claim inclusivity, how about sticking to the long-time brand idea that every player makes the game what they want it to be? Isn't that the purpose of the Sims 4 campaign when they say things like, "you do you, wherever you want to"? The entire pronoun movement is for a specific group of people. Power to them, they should have it in their games if they want it, I'm not trying to contradict that. But why does it look like it's becoming a core focus that all players are going to have to deal with? Are rotational players who play a bazillion Sims (like me) going to have to go through a bunch of nonsense and select pronouns for every single one just so the game can recognize them? And what happens if we don't? Where does the game default? If it defaults to non-binary because of the language of pronouns, then does that mean the mechanics will never be able to incorporate sexual identities like gay or straight? Because that's a problem. You can't claim to be "inclusive" and not allow for sexual identities too, especially when past games did.
See, this is the main problem that I see people having with the entire pronoun argument. It leads into gay/straight erasure because suddenly people aren't "allowed" to have gender (or rather, sex) preferences or it's considered some kind of phobic. I have a gay friend who plays Sims and straight up wants all of his Sims to be exclusively gay. I have a lesbian friend who is self-described "butch" who is constantly being "pronoun analyzed" in real life because she wears men's clothes, plays male characters in rpgs and renaissance faires and has male alter egos, yet proudly identifies as a woman and wants an exclusively female world. But in seven years our Sims haven't even shown a semblance of sexual identity and even autonomously flirt with random other Sims. We have no way of choosing preferences and the game doesn't seem to even acknowledge our choices. If all Sims become gender neutral by default just so the scripting can accommodate pronouns, does this mean we will never have these choices? I'm sorry, but that's upsetting.
I don't really want to be the one running around and yelling "the sky is falling" because of one sneak peek. Maybe in the end it will all work out. But I do want to make sure that the devs have truly considered what they're doing and how it will affect the game (and players) down the line.
This is exactly how I feel about this whole situation. I honestly hate all this pronoun hype and I wish we could just keep real life things out of the game. And I think that this pronoun trend will pass in a few years too. So all of this feels so unnecessary. But, as long as they make it optional, then great. But I'm still worried that they will try make everything gender neutral to please the minority.
I agree. The Sims 4 is going to age so poorly.
Yeah, just like the "gay people" will disappear too, right? - LiELF4 years agoSeasoned Ace
"Beardedgeek;c-18039735" wrote:
"LiELF;c-18039701" wrote:
See, this is the main problem that I see people having with the entire pronoun argument. It leads into gay/straight erasure
Sorry, but that is an outright lie, and sound like the typical argument of anti-trans hate groups.
Interesting that out of my entire explanation you singled out a piece of one sentence out of context to be defined as "hate" while simultaneously dropping the rest of the quote. The entire sentence read, "It leads into gay/straight erasure because suddenly people aren't "allowed" to have gender (or rather, sex) preferences or it's considered some kind of phobic.
Congratulations, you are an exact example of what I was pointing out and it's part of the problem.
People don't choose who they are attracted to or why. Generations of people spent years of blood and tears and trauma trying to explain this to societies so that non-straight people could be free to love who they love. It's not anti-trans. It's a human right. No one owes anybody their attraction just because they "identify" a certain way. It's called a hard truth and has a lot to do with biology. Trying to defy that is no different than religious groups trying to force gay people to be straight. - LiELF4 years agoSeasoned Ace
"Lecca;c-18039740" wrote:
Really upsetting that a game that allows us to customize characters is giving us more customization options. I already decide my sims name, age, clothes, hair color, eye color, traits, preferences, posture, foot size, how far their ears stick out, etc. but I draw the line at having to click a drop down menu. And they want us to have a few more words on the screen??? They’ve gone too far. Seems like they’re going to continue making sims more complex, personable, and unique. Soon everyone will be able to make sims exactly how they want. How terrible.
Everyone? I truly hope so. - NightwalkerArk4 years agoSeasoned NewcomerI've probably missed it if it was mentioned, but is this a feature that only the player will control fully in CaS, or will the game hand out specific pronouns to townies and generated townies? Here's to hoping I won't have to choose pronouns every time I create a male or female Sim.
Not too keen on having it on display under my Sims names all the time, but I guess one'd get used to it after a while.
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