If something new is shown at EA Play regarding The Sims Franchise, what do you think it will be?

"stilljustme2;c-16389434" wrote:

"FreezerBunnyCowplant;c-16348748" wrote:
If they reveal The Sims 5, it better has pools, toddlers, ghosts, a Color Wheel and more open worlds from the beginning or I'm going to be mad

I'd settle for open neighborhoods with loading screens going between neighborhoods/worlds. I don't want to go back to being stuck in the same world for entire generations, or moving to another world but losing all your existing family/friend relationships like in Sims 3.

Not to speak ill of the departed, but it feels like the game did take a turn for the better with the change in management, meaning when Rachel Franklin left and we got Lyndsey Pearson who is a Sim veteran. The Sims is a unique game -- unlike games where you have a definitive end, the Sims are endless. Even if your original Sim dies, you can pick up and go one with any other Sim in the game. Barring save corruption, you can play the same save for years; I'm sure there are players who have been playing the same save since September 2014 when the game released. (not me, I've got too short an attention sp...oh look, shiny!). I think that takes a certain perspective and attitude that can't be easily found in the game industry.

Actually even in Sims 3 you don’t have to with mods (and cheats, nothing easier than repairing a friendship in the game), I can repair family trees just fine now with Mastercontroller. I’m convinced they are capable of creating a world way bigger than a TS4 neighborhood and connect them. Not in the least because a moderator even managed to do it with the TS3 worlds. It’s possible so I won’t settle for much less (the worlds don’t need to be as big as Sims 3’s, but they’ll have to be as open and immersive for me).

"ebuchala;c-16392399" wrote:

"Erpe;c-16391802" wrote:

"ebuchala;c-16391208" wrote:

"MissNightOwl;c-16358866" wrote:
I'm a little confused with the whole TS5 idea. Didn't Graham said that now when the big Pets expansion pack is done, they can work on new exciting packs, or something like that? I don't now, I got impression that there's a lot to do with TS4 (and I think so myself), but everybody suddenly talks about TS5... Anyway, it'd be rather odd if they annouce now the game to come in few years, the Sims Mobile is not interesting to me at all, so I hope it's about a new expansion.

I wouldn't worry about it being TS5 yet. I think some people who really dislike this version have their wishful-thinking caps on, is all. Maxis has been pretty clear that they're following a different release schedule/pattern for dlc with TS4 and, even more recently, that they'll be offering plenty more content for this game. I really do think they plan on continuing with this version for awhile yet to come.

There is no doubt that TS4 will get another EP, a GP and at least 4 more SPs which is quite a lot. But this doesn’t prevent EA from announcing TS5 in a couple of months and then release it about 15 months later in the second half of 2019. So I think that the wishful thinking is mostly done by the dreamers who want TS4 to continue to 2022 or even later ;)

Graham said the they follow a different schedule with the packs for TS4. But we already know that because we have seen that at least half of the usual EPs now are replaced by both the new GPs and by many more SPs. Again the wishful dreamers instead overinterpretate the statement to mean a guarantee that TS4 will continue forever until TS4 even has more EPs than TS3 got ;)

But, this is the speculation section so, like everyone else, I'm just speculating. Either way, I'm interested to see what they're planning next for the Sims.

I have followed this debate closely and I am not especially interested in TS5 even though I don’t play TS4 anymore. The reason is that I don’t think that the release of TS5 will stop the changed schedule with many smaller packs instead of a lot of big EPs. Actually I fear that TS5 won’t get even a single EP but only GPs and even more SPs than TS4 got.

We'll have to agree to disagree on when they're planning on releasing TS5. I've suspected since they released TS4 that they were planning on trying to extend it for at least half again (if not double) the normal life span of the previous Sims games, though I'm sure it's all dependent on how well the expansions continue to sell which is essentially what's been said--they'll continue to make packs for TS4 until it doesn't make sense anymore, which, logically speaking, implies that they'll do it until they feel like releasing a new version is going to make them more money than continuing to extend the current version. No "overinterpretation" involved. But it makes sense to slow down the release schedule of EPs and beef things up with SPs and GPs for content with a longer life span on the base game. I guess we'll know more in a 3 months or so, though.

I just don’t understand the reasoning behind this. Where have they ever said that TS4 will get a longer life than TS2 or TS3 got??

EA makes games only to earn money and it must therefore be EA’s top who decide how long time each Sims game can live until EA’s top want the next basegame released. So this decision can’t be about what the developing teams want. Instead it is based on marketing.

So what EA’s top always have had to consider is for how long time a basegame should have packs before it is better to release a new basegame to make the packs sell better again and EA’s top have always decided to make the next basegame ready to be released after 5 years. Also they have always made certain that the next basegame has something new that can be used in the marketing to persuade simmers to buy it immediately even though they already have the previous basegame with all packs. So I am sure that EA will do that again unless the sales numbers for TS4 have become so low that EA has decided not to make TS5 at all.

The only thing that has changed is that EA’s top decided that TS4 should only have one EP each year because the other EP should instead be replaced by GPs. But why should that prolong TS4’s life beyound 5 years?

To be honest, with this iteration, I prefer the GPs anyway. Though I think that speaks more to their EP team than EPs in general. I think the GP team has been spot on with most of their packs while the EPs have been kind of meh. I don't know that I'd have a problem with them sticking with GPs and SPs and releasing more of both for TS5. I feel like we get more options that way, anyway, to customize our game. To me, the EPs have felt almost like slightly beefier GPs and with the price being double, I'm more inclined to feel like I'm getting my money's worth with GPs than with EPs this go around.

I don’t think that it is reasonable to blame the team because I again am quite sure that the decisions were made by EA’s top. The reason why the EPs have become smaller for TS4 than for the earlier games almost certainly is that EA’s top now know that the packs don’t need to be so big to sell well. But EA’s top managers are hired by EA’s stock holders to increase profit and nothing else. Therefore they all have huge salaries which depends heavily on this. So when they noticed that both SPs and GPs sold so well they most likely decided to reduce the sizes and budgets for the EPs too. I also don’t think that they regretted this at all because it seems to me that they were right in assuming that those smaller and cheaper EPs have sold about as well as the earlier bigger EPs did. Therefore I also don’t think that EAs top again will increase the budget for each EP.

Even if Sims 5 is already in the works, I doubt we'll be getting any announcements this year.

Just something in the way they market TS4 makes me think they want as much attention and media buzz focused on TS4 as possible and official info about the next generation of sims would just unnecessarily shift that focus to something that can't even bring them money yet.

I'm actually 90% sure they won't be doing any announcements at all but I would love to be proven wrong. Very curious what this year's EP is.

@Erpe It’s really literally been said, that the life span of Sims 4 will be different (longer) than for its predecessors. I believe it was GuruDrake who said it, on these forums. It isn’t speculation, it’s based on a statement (it left me quite hopeless I must confess, because it even sounded like they were aiming for a ten year anniversary).

"Erpe;c-16392489" wrote:

"ebuchala;c-16392399" wrote:

"Erpe;c-16391802" wrote:

"ebuchala;c-16391208" wrote:

"MissNightOwl;c-16358866" wrote:
I'm a little confused with the whole TS5 idea. Didn't Graham said that now when the big Pets expansion pack is done, they can work on new exciting packs, or something like that? I don't now, I got impression that there's a lot to do with TS4 (and I think so myself), but everybody suddenly talks about TS5... Anyway, it'd be rather odd if they annouce now the game to come in few years, the Sims Mobile is not interesting to me at all, so I hope it's about a new expansion.

I wouldn't worry about it being TS5 yet. I think some people who really dislike this version have their wishful-thinking caps on, is all. Maxis has been pretty clear that they're following a different release schedule/pattern for dlc with TS4 and, even more recently, that they'll be offering plenty more content for this game. I really do think they plan on continuing with this version for awhile yet to come.

There is no doubt that TS4 will get another EP, a GP and at least 4 more SPs which is quite a lot. But this doesn’t prevent EA from announcing TS5 in a couple of months and then release it about 15 months later in the second half of 2019. So I think that the wishful thinking is mostly done by the dreamers who want TS4 to continue to 2022 or even later ;)

Graham said the they follow a different schedule with the packs for TS4. But we already know that because we have seen that at least half of the usual EPs now are replaced by both the new GPs and by many more SPs. Again the wishful dreamers instead overinterpretate the statement to mean a guarantee that TS4 will continue forever until TS4 even has more EPs than TS3 got ;)

But, this is the speculation section so, like everyone else, I'm just speculating. Either way, I'm interested to see what they're planning next for the Sims.

I have followed this debate closely and I am not especially interested in TS5 even though I don’t play TS4 anymore. The reason is that I don’t think that the release of TS5 will stop the changed schedule with many smaller packs instead of a lot of big EPs. Actually I fear that TS5 won’t get even a single EP but only GPs and even more SPs than TS4 got.

We'll have to agree to disagree on when they're planning on releasing TS5. I've suspected since they released TS4 that they were planning on trying to extend it for at least half again (if not double) the normal life span of the previous Sims games, though I'm sure it's all dependent on how well the expansions continue to sell which is essentially what's been said--they'll continue to make packs for TS4 until it doesn't make sense anymore, which, logically speaking, implies that they'll do it until they feel like releasing a new version is going to make them more money than continuing to extend the current version. No "overinterpretation" involved. But it makes sense to slow down the release schedule of EPs and beef things up with SPs and GPs for content with a longer life span on the base game. I guess we'll know more in a 3 months or so, though.

I just don’t understand the reasoning behind this. Where have they ever said that TS4 will get a longer life than TS2 or TS3 got??

EA makes games only to earn money and it must therefore be EA’s top who decide how long time each Sims game can live until EA’s top want the next basegame released. So this decision can’t be about what the developing teams want. Instead it is based on marketing.

So what EA’s top always have had to consider is for how long time a basegame should have packs before it is better to release a new basegame to make the packs sell better again and EA’s top have always decided to make the next basegame ready to be released after 5 years. Also they have always made certain that the next basegame has something new that can be used in the marketing to persuade simmers to buy it immediately even though they already have the previous basegame with all packs. So I am sure that EA will do that again unless the sales numbers for TS4 have become so low that EA has decided not to make TS5 at all.

The only thing that has changed is that EA’s top decided that TS4 should only have one EP each year because the other EP should instead be replaced by GPs. But why should that prolong TS4’s life beyound 5 years?

To be honest, with this iteration, I prefer the GPs anyway. Though I think that speaks more to their EP team than EPs in general. I think the GP team has been spot on with most of their packs while the EPs have been kind of meh. I don't know that I'd have a problem with them sticking with GPs and SPs and releasing more of both for TS5. I feel like we get more options that way, anyway, to customize our game. To me, the EPs have felt almost like slightly beefier GPs and with the price being double, I'm more inclined to feel like I'm getting my money's worth with GPs than with EPs this go around.

I don’t think that it is reasonable to blame the team because I again am quite sure that the decisions were made by EA’s top. The reason why the EPs have become smaller for TS4 than for the earlier games almost certainly is that EA’s top now know that the packs don’t need to be so big to sell well. But EA’s top managers are hired by EA’s stock holders to increase profit and nothing else. Therefore they all have huge salaries which depends heavily on this. So when they noticed that both SPs and GPs sold so well they most likely decided to reduce the sizes and budgets for the EPs too. I also don’t think that they regretted this at all because it seems to me that they were right in assuming that those smaller and cheaper EPs have sold about as well as the earlier bigger EPs did. Therefore I also don’t think that EAs top again will increase the budget for each EP.

I never said they stated TS4 would get a longer life. That's just my speculation based on what they have said and how they've handled dlc for this iteration. Just like your speculation is that they're going to release it in the usual time frame as previous games. Mine is mainly based on their statement that they would continue to make dlc for TS4 until it doesn't make sense anymore (as I stated previously). We both agree that they mean until they think they can make more money by releasing a new version of the game but we disagree on when that might be. From my perspective, as long as they can sell packs for TS4 and make a profit, it seems likely that they'll keep doing so.

I don't really feel motivated right now to sit and list out what all might influence that sort of decision but you have to consider and compare the costs of developing a whole new base game, marketing it and what kind of sales that might provide versus creating content at $10, $20 and $40 a pop for a game that already exists and marketing it (partially to an audience that's already "hooked"). I imagine they also keep a pretty close eye on when sales for the packs start to fall off with each new pack release and compare all of that to projected sales for the new version to figure out when it's time to make that move.

The reason I think the slower release of dlc, especially EPs has an impact on the production expectancy of TS4 is because you're going to have plenty of people waiting for that dlc--you know, the one that hasn't been released yet--and will probably continue to buy until it comes out. The longer they extend that, the longer they can string people along in supporting TS4.

To be clear, I don't mean the "string people along" in a negative way. I'm relatively happy with how TS4 has been going and enjoy it well enough when I play it--when my daughter and I stop enjoying it, I'll stop buying dlc for it. So, if they want to drag out the TS4 production life longer than previous ones I'm fine with that and if they end up deciding to shut it down tomorrow and release TS5 next year (or even just shut the whole thing down), I'm fine with that. Might be a little disappointed if they do stop making the Sims completely but, it is what it is. If I can't get them to make another Prototype, Mass Effect with Shepard, Deus Ex, etc., then I doubt I'll be able to force them to make another Sims game (them as in "THEM" or the powers that be, not specifically EA since not all the games I mentioned are EA games).

"JoAnne65;c-16393034" wrote:
@Erpe It’s really literally been said, that the life span of Sims 4 will be different (longer) than for its predecessors. I believe it was GuruDrake who said it, on these forums. It isn’t speculation, it’s based on a statement (it left me quite hopeless I must confess, because it even sounded like they were aiming for a ten year anniversary).

The only thing I have seen is a statement where they said (and I believe that it was Graham who said it) that we shouldn’t expect the same schedule for the packs as we have been used to. I understood that statement as we shouldn’t expect 2 EPs a year anymore but instead a GP and some SPs. They later then began to make two GPs each year instead of only one and I thought that the reason was that EA’s top had been very satisfied with the sales numbers for the first GPs and therefore had told the developers to increase the number of GPs. I also saw signs that EA’s top weren’t very satisfied with the sales numbers for EPs and therefore feared that they would tell the developers not to make any more EPs at all. But instead it seems that EA’s top decided to still make about one EP each year but only reduced the budget for that EP such that EPs now have less content than the EPs for TS2 and TS3 used to have. This make me still fear that EA’s top will decide not to make EPs at all for TS5 though.

I have been surprised that so many in the forum instead understood their statement about the changed schedule for packs as they would release packs for TS4 in several more years and it for me looked like many in the forum understood it that way just because they thought that EPs now must have become more difficult to make such that it would take more years to make all the usual EPs for TS4 too. But I just never have believed at all that EA’s top reduced the number of EPs for such a reason and I am sure that EPs for TS4 instead have been even easier and cheaper for EA to make because of their reduced content. So I am sure that the problem instead has been that EA can make 2 GPs for the same money as EA earlier used to make an EP. But 2 GPs likely give EA bigger income from their sales than just one EP does. Therefore I also don’t at all believe that EA again will increase the number of yearly EPs.

@ebuchala I don’t think that EA just stops making EPs when they aren’t profitable anymore because EA has never done that. Instead EA has always stopped already after 5 years even though EA easily could have sold many more EPs. Also EA could have made more EPs for the previous basegame even after EA had released the next basegame. But EA hasn’t done that either. So if we want to understand how EA plans things then we have to ask why not?

So I have conseidered this and I think that EA looks at things much more broadly instead of just considering possible profit for each pack. The problem for EA here must be that EA knows that if they release too many packs within too short time then many simmers will just stop buying everything and the packs will just steal customers from eachother. Therefore EA has decided not to release packs for more than a certain amount of money each year. But EA likely just add the prices for all packs and doesn’t count just EPs like so many in the forum seem to do.

So again I think that EA’s decision about when to release the next basegame is based just on the same considerations as earlier and the problem here mainly is that after 5 years it has become difficult for EA to attract new customers to the current game. Therefore EA has always planned to release a new basegame after almost exactly 5 years and I just don’t see why EA should have made different considerations now. Of course it is possible (at least theoretically) that EA considered to not release TS5 at all or not in the next many years or that EA has postponed the release of TS5 because the development of TS5 has given EA unexpected problems. I just don’t find that very likely.

Who's gonna buy any more Sims 4 packs if there's a whole new game coming out in 18 months? I know I wouldn't.

They haven't even released Seasons yet.

I think there are three things to be discussed - Sims Mobile release, and whatever game pack is out this quarter, while also fielding questions about this year's EP.

You see, while some people clamour for Sims 5, EA knows that it can appeal to many more new customers than Sims 5 would get for their money, by employing porting teams. You see, the younger audience IS on the phone apps.

There's a good reason the Devs would want Sims 4 to last. You see, Triple-A Devs are in a pretty lousy position when it comes to job stability. As soon as a game is complete, their jobs are pretty much over. Bye-bye, don't let the door hit your plum on the way out. A sequel with an identical engine is their only chance, and not much of a chance at that. When Sims 4 was made, a whole new team was brought in for a whole new engine, and then the Sims 3 staff got laid off.

No way is it just EA who treats devs that way. So Devs are not going to turn to their employers and say "We're out of ideas, I guess you've got to pay us to make Sims 5 now" cuz for sure they won't be on the team making it. And I'm not knocking at the Devs for it either. That's what happens when you don't have a union.

"Loanet;c-16393798" wrote:
Who's gonna buy any more Sims 4 packs if there's a whole new game coming out in 18 months? I know I wouldn't.

Why not?

If TS5 is released in about 18 months then it at that time will have only the basegame. Would you really stop playing TS4 for a coulple of years and just wait to only play with the basegame for TS5?

They haven't even released Seasons yet.

Correct. But if they release Seasons later this year and then TS5 a year after that then you will have a whole year to play with Seasons. Won’t that be enough?

I think there are three things to be discussed - Sims Mobile release, and whatever game pack is out this quarter, while also fielding questions about this year's EP.

You see, while some people clamour for Sims 5, EA knows that it can appeal to many more new customers than Sims 5 would get for their money, by employing porting teams. You see, the younger audience IS on the phone apps.

Yes. Therefore EA has released the Sims Mobile. But something points in the direction that EA doesn’t even know for how long that game will be interesting to play because EA has strongly pointed out that EA has reserved the right to close the game’s server down with only one month notice before it is actually done.

There's a good reason the Devs would want Sims 4 to last. You see, Triple-A Devs are in a pretty lousy position when it comes to job stability. As soon as a game is complete, their jobs are pretty much over. Bye-bye, don't let the door hit your plum on the way out. A sequel with an identical engine is their only chance, and not much of a chance at that. When Sims 4 was made, a whole new team was brought in for a whole new engine, and then the Sims 3 staff got laid off.

Not really. Only the studio in Salt Lake was told to make other games until EA was sure that the studio wouldn’t be needed for TS4 too. But when it became clear that this wasn’t the case because the cheap-to-make SPs and GPs sold very well EA then decided to finally close Salt Lake down less than a year ago.

No way is it just EA who treats devs that way. So Devs are not going to turn to their employers and say "We're out of ideas, I guess you've got to pay us to make Sims 5 now" cuz for sure they won't be on the team making it. And I'm not knocking at the Devs for it either. That's what happens when you don't have a union.

You should just study a little how EA’s top usually treat EA’s employees ;)

EA has bought a lot of other companies just to get the rights to use their most profitable game series. But EA has also closed most of their studios down after a few years when EA didn’t need those studios anymore and without caring about their employees at all. EA’s employees get nice surroundings to work in and discounts when they buy EA’s games. But then they also have to accept a lot of overtime and they have no job security at all. You can read much more about this if you search for “EA employees” in Google because both current and earlier EA employees have told about it many times.

So no. EA’s top won’t at all consider the devs when they decide the future for the Sims games - but only how they can maximize the profit from those games.

"Erpe;c-16393736" wrote:

"JoAnne65;c-16393034" wrote:
@Erpe It’s really literally been said, that the life span of Sims 4 will be different (longer) than for its predecessors. I believe it was GuruDrake who said it, on these forums. It isn’t speculation, it’s based on a statement (it left me quite hopeless I must confess, because it even sounded like they were aiming for a ten year anniversary).

The only thing I have seen is a statement where they said (and I believe that it was Graham who said it) that we shouldn’t expect the same schedule for the packs as we have been used to. I understood that statement as we shouldn’t expect 2 EPs a year anymore but instead a GP and some SPs. They later then began to make two GPs each year instead of only one and I thought that the reason was that EA’s top had been very satisfied with the sales numbers for the first GPs and therefore had told the developers to increase the number of GPs. I also saw signs that EA’s top weren’t very satisfied with the sales numbers for EPs and therefore feared that they would tell the developers not to make any more EPs at all. But instead it seems that EA’s top decided to still make about one EP each year but only reduced the budget for that EP such that EPs now have less content than the EPs for TS2 and TS3 used to have. This make me still fear that EA’s top will decide not to make EPs at all for TS5 though.

I have been surprised that so many in the forum instead understood their statement about the changed schedule for packs as they would release packs for TS4 in several more years and it for me looked like many in the forum understood it that way just because they thought that EPs now must have become more difficult to make such that it would take more years to make all the usual EPs for TS4 too. But I just never have believed at all that EA’s top reduced the number of EPs for such a reason and I am sure that EPs for TS4 instead have been even easier and cheaper for EA to make because of their reduced content. So I am sure that the problem instead has been that EA can make 2 GPs for the same money as EA earlier used to make an EP. But 2 GPs likely give EA bigger income from their sales than just one EP does. Therefore I also don’t at all believe that EA again will increase the number of yearly EPs.

@ebuchala I don’t think that EA just stops making EPs when they aren’t profitable anymore because EA has never done that. Instead EA has always stopped already after 5 years even though EA easily could have sold many more EPs. Also EA could have made more EPs for the previous basegame even after EA had released the next basegame. But EA hasn’t done that either. So if we want to understand how EA plans things then we have to ask why not?

So I have conseidered this and I think that EA looks at things much more broadly instead of just considering possible profit for each pack. The problem for EA here must be that EA knows that if they release too many packs within too short time then many simmers will just stop buying everything and the packs will just steal customers from eachother. Therefore EA has decided not to release packs for more than a certain amount of money each year. But EA likely just add the prices for all packs and doesn’t count just EPs like so many in the forum seem to do.

So again I think that EA’s decision about when to release the next basegame is based just on the same considerations as earlier and the problem here mainly is that after 5 years it has become difficult for EA to attract new customers to the current game. Therefore EA has always planned to release a new basegame after almost exactly 5 years and I just don’t see why EA should have made different considerations now. Of course it is possible (at least theoretically) that EA considered to not release TS5 at all or not in the next many years or that EA has postponed the release of TS5 because the development of TS5 has given EA unexpected problems. I just don’t find that very likely.

Ah, @JoAnne65 I seem to recall the same thing from Drake but didn't remember well enough so didn't mention it. I really have had the impression from the start they're trying to extend this version as long as possible.

I believe profitability is a major, if not the major defining factor in deciding when to stop producing something for any company. But I would also assume that functionality fits into that--meaning by the time we had all EPs and SPs for TS3 released, Maxis was stating in the launch box that we shouldn't have all of them installed or we could expect a degradation in performance. I'm fairly sure the engine design for this base game as well as the way the packs are being produced and released is a very large tell regarding their life expectancy for TS4. Between both profitability and performance with the addition of each new pack, I'm sure you would find the equation for when that decision is made. And, really, based on what's been stated, this entire version run is supposed to be different than previous ones so I'm not sure why you're clinging to the idea that they're going to handle it the same as past versions. Plus, it all boils down to the fact that we simply don't know what all they use to determine when it's time to make that move so it's all just grand speculation anyway.

Your statement about EA not wanting to release too many packs in too short of a time seems to speak more to my point, as well. It shows that they're trying to extend the lifetime of the game, in my opinion. I actually did a quick tally in another thread about prices for TS4 to show how profitable this game is in it's current iteration versus starting a whole new version. They currently have a functioning (for the most part) engine in place with a base game that's past it's initial premium cost and is now sold at a heavily discounted price but, still sold. At this point, you estimate (US currency) $40 per EP each year (anywhere from 1/2 to 2/3 of a full AAA title), 2-$20 GPs each year, and at least 3-4 $10 SPs each year. For a single game with a lot less work than it costs to produce a whole new AAA title, they're making between $40 and $110, easily per Simmer almost guaranteed (not to even mention new customers or old customers who come back and buy later like what happened when Toddlers were released). Compared to an unguaranteed $80 per person for a new game that might flop. At some point the new game makes sense but don't fool yourself into thinking it doesn't all boil down to money/profit in the end.

@ebuchala I googled but can’t find it unfortunately, but I’m 100% sure ;)