If something new is shown at EA Play regarding The Sims Franchise, what do you think it will be?

"simgirl1010;c-16349362" wrote:

"MidnightAura;c-16349064" wrote:
Something is going on with select game changers away to San Francisco for meetings.

This might be an introduction to a free update for the Sims 4 and the game changers are getting a first look. We still have the whole month of March in this quarter and no planned pack.

Could be.

But seems strange to fly some (not all) of them all the way for a free update. Time will tell.

"MidnightAura;c-16351194" wrote:

"simgirl1010;c-16349362" wrote:

"MidnightAura;c-16349064" wrote:
Something is going on with select game changers away to San Francisco for meetings.

This might be an introduction to a free update for the Sims 4 and the game changers are getting a first look. We still have the whole month of March in this quarter and no planned pack.

Could be.

But seems strange to fly some (not all) of them all the way for a free update. Time will tell.

If said free update is game-changing, maybe. Like an overhaul of TS4 to include customizable worlds and CASt. But I doubt it'll be anything of that scale. :D

"LenaDieters11;c-16347691" wrote:
I doubt it is Sims 5. There was too much backlash about Sims 4 missing features, still is. I will not buy Sims 5, if they don't 'finish' Sims 4 first. I just wouldn't trust them to finish Sims 5 either and then I am left with two games with missing content.

That’s exactly my fear. It occurred to me the way they are advertising for TS4 is very similar to how some app games are advertized on my iPad (think they even hired the very same voice for it). Just bought JA yesterday and really hope it will prove me wrong, but it only will when it will give me the WA vibe I’m afraid. Meaning: in depth, huge and absorbing. If not, if it’s only fun in a way I can also get out of a (free) app game, I have little confidence in future plans for the franchise.

(“game changers”..... *runs off, hysterically crying*)

"Erpe;c-16347184" wrote:
If EA has followed their usual plan about releasing a new basegame every 5 years and announcing each new basegame about 15 months before their release then of course it will be TS5! ;)

Many simmers just don’t believe that because they think that TS4 still is missing all the “usual” EPs now that EA has replaced them with GPs and SPs instead. Beside that those simmers haven’t yet understood that it never was EA’s intention to just let TS4 become a new version of TS2 or TS3! Instead it always has been EA’s plan to let TS4 become a new and very different Sims game.

So EA planned to let TS4 even become a Sims game without toddlers and also without all the “traditional” EPs. It should be a new game and simmers who preferred the old style were expected to just still play TS3.

Later EA decided to release toddlers anyway though because the sales numbers for TS4 had been disappointing. So has EA also changed the plan about not releasing EPs like Seasons or University? I don’t know. But EA still mainly wants to release SPs and GPs because their low prices make them sell better and because they are much cheaper for EA to make. Also I am quite sure that EA wants the GPs to have mainly new content instead of becoming reduced versions of traditional EPs. But anyway all the traditional reasons why EA wants a new basegame to be released every 5 years are still clearly valid (mainly an old basegame not appealing to new simmers, new packs for an old basegame selling less and less and EA being unable to discount old packs without hurting the sales numbers for new packs). So unless EA really wants to stop the whole series soon I can’t see why EA shouldn’t announce TS5 in the middle of 2018 and release it about 15 months later as usual?

A lot of what you said just simply isn't true.

1: Sales aren't bad for the sims 4. They've posted almost every quarter that sims 4 is doing extremely well and grows each quarter

2: Toddlers were planned from the beginning to be patched in as free content. This has been stated by multiple gurus.

3: It has also been stated that sims 4 is different, and will not follow the past sims series cycles. The guru's have said that they will keep making packs for sims 4 until it no longer makes sense to.

"Zeldaboy180;c-16351284" wrote:

"Erpe;c-16347184" wrote:
If EA has followed their usual plan about releasing a new basegame every 5 years and announcing each new basegame about 15 months before their release then of course it will be TS5! ;)

Many simmers just don’t believe that because they think that TS4 still is missing all the “usual” EPs now that EA has replaced them with GPs and SPs instead. Beside that those simmers haven’t yet understood that it never was EA’s intention to just let TS4 become a new version of TS2 or TS3! Instead it always has been EA’s plan to let TS4 become a new and very different Sims game.

So EA planned to let TS4 even become a Sims game without toddlers and also without all the “traditional” EPs. It should be a new game and simmers who preferred the old style were expected to just still play TS3.

Later EA decided to release toddlers anyway though because the sales numbers for TS4 had been disappointing. So has EA also changed the plan about not releasing EPs like Seasons or University? I don’t know. But EA still mainly wants to release SPs and GPs because their low prices make them sell better and because they are much cheaper for EA to make. Also I am quite sure that EA wants the GPs to have mainly new content instead of becoming reduced versions of traditional EPs. But anyway all the traditional reasons why EA wants a new basegame to be released every 5 years are still clearly valid (mainly an old basegame not appealing to new simmers, new packs for an old basegame selling less and less and EA being unable to discount old packs without hurting the sales numbers for new packs). So unless EA really wants to stop the whole series soon I can’t see why EA shouldn’t announce TS5 in the middle of 2018 and release it about 15 months later as usual?

A lot of what you said just simply isn't true.

1: Sales aren't bad for the sims 4. They've posted almost every quarter that sims 4 is doing extremely well and grows each quarter

I never said that sales were bad. The reports aren’t too convincing though because they are without actual facts about the sales numbers. Saying that the total number of sales for TS4 grows every quarter is just saying something trivial. To judge anything we need to be able to compare the quarters instead. But I agree that sales numbers aren’t too bad because EA wouldn’t release more and more packs every year if they were.

2: Toddlers were planned from the beginning to be patched in as free content. This has been stated by multiple gurus.

I haven’t seen such statements? Anyway it doesn’t make any sense because then the toddlers would have been in the basegame and not released more than 2 years later. But yes, I believe that toddlers were planned originally. I just believe that they were omitted anyway because the developers got into time trouble and didn’t think that toddlers were so important. If they had planned to make them later and release them in a free patch then they would have done that within a few months. But instead they waited for years and only began to make them when all the reviews kept mentioning the missing toddlers even so long time after the release of the basegame.

3: It has also been stated that sims 4 is different, and will not follow the past sims series cycles. The guru's have said that they will keep making packs for sims 4 until it no longer makes sense to.

You seem to be twisting their statements again. Yes, Sims 4 is different and it doesn’t get 2-3 EPs each year like Sims 3 did because EA decided to replace half of the EPs with SPs and the new GPs. Also the structure of the developing teams and their sizes are different because the many small packs and the free stuff means that more small teams have to work at the same time. The focus on SPs also means that more artists and fewer programmers are generally needed. So they also move developers more around between the teams than they did earlier. All this just doesn’t mean that the reasons why EA always has released a new basegame after at most 5 years have changed because those reasons have always just been about marketing:
1. An old basegame with many packs released isn’t attractive to new simmers.
2. Some of the simmers stop playing after a couple of years.
3. Sales numbers for packs usually become lower and lower after some time.
4. Many simmers will begin to buy old discounted packs instead of buying the new packs.
5. A new basegame will get better sales numbers for both the basegame and packs again.
6. A new basegame means that bugs in the old one don’t matter anymore.
7. A new basegame can be designed better for the newer and stronger computers.

"Erpe;c-16351354" wrote:

"Zeldaboy180;c-16351284" wrote:

"Erpe;c-16347184" wrote:
If EA has followed their usual plan about releasing a new basegame every 5 years and announcing each new basegame about 15 months before their release then of course it will be TS5! ;)

Many simmers just don’t believe that because they think that TS4 still is missing all the “usual” EPs now that EA has replaced them with GPs and SPs instead. Beside that those simmers haven’t yet understood that it never was EA’s intention to just let TS4 become a new version of TS2 or TS3! Instead it always has been EA’s plan to let TS4 become a new and very different Sims game.

So EA planned to let TS4 even become a Sims game without toddlers and also without all the “traditional” EPs. It should be a new game and simmers who preferred the old style were expected to just still play TS3.

Later EA decided to release toddlers anyway though because the sales numbers for TS4 had been disappointing. So has EA also changed the plan about not releasing EPs like Seasons or University? I don’t know. But EA still mainly wants to release SPs and GPs because their low prices make them sell better and because they are much cheaper for EA to make. Also I am quite sure that EA wants the GPs to have mainly new content instead of becoming reduced versions of traditional EPs. But anyway all the traditional reasons why EA wants a new basegame to be released every 5 years are still clearly valid (mainly an old basegame not appealing to new simmers, new packs for an old basegame selling less and less and EA being unable to discount old packs without hurting the sales numbers for new packs). So unless EA really wants to stop the whole series soon I can’t see why EA shouldn’t announce TS5 in the middle of 2018 and release it about 15 months later as usual?

A lot of what you said just simply isn't true.

1: Sales aren't bad for the sims 4. They've posted almost every quarter that sims 4 is doing extremely well and grows each quarter

I never said that sales were bad. The reports aren’t too convincing though because they are without actual facts about the sales numbers. Saying that the total number of sales for TS4 grows every quarter is just saying something trivial. To judge anything we need to be able to compare the quarters instead. But I agree that sales numbers aren’t too bad because EA wouldn’t release more and more packs every year if they were.

2: Toddlers were planned from the beginning to be patched in as free content. This has been stated by multiple gurus.

I haven’t seen such statements? Anyway it doesn’t make any sense because then the toddlers would have been in the basegame and not released more than 2 years later. But yes, I believe that toddlers were planned originally. I just believe that they were omitted anyway because the developers got into time trouble and didn’t think that toddlers were so important. If they had planned to make them later and release them in a free patch then they would have done that within a few months. But instead they waited for years and only began to make them when all the reviews kept mentioning the missing toddlers even so long time after the release of the basegame.

3: It has also been stated that sims 4 is different, and will not follow the past sims series cycles. The guru's have said that they will keep making packs for sims 4 until it no longer makes sense to.

You seem to be twisting their statements again. Yes, Sims 4 is different and it doesn’t get 2-3 EPs each year like Sims 3 did because EA decided to replace half of the EPs with SPs and the new GPs. Also the structure of the developing teams and their sizes are different because the many small packs and the free stuff means that more small teams have to work at the same time. The focus on SPs also means that more artists and fewer programmers are generally needed. So they also move developers more around between the teams than they did earlier. All this just doesn’t mean that the reasons why EA always has released a new basegame after at most 5 years have changed because those reasons have always just been about marketing:
1. An old basegame with many packs released isn’t attractive to new simmers.
2. Some of the simmers stop playing after a couple of years.
3. Sales numbers for packs usually become lower and lower after some time.
4. Many simmers will begin to buy old discounted packs instead of buying the new packs.
5. A new basegame will get better sales numbers for both the basegame and packs again.
6. A new basegame means that bugs in the old one don’t matter anymore.
7. A new basegame can be designed better for the newer and stronger computers.

They have said they were working on (Ideas, Formal Discussion, approval, Development etc.) Toddlers for at least a year-1.5 years and had some ideas and informal discussion months before.

"DcD2510;c-16351376" wrote:

"Erpe;c-16351354" wrote:

"Zeldaboy180;c-16351284" wrote:

"Erpe;c-16347184" wrote:
If EA has followed their usual plan about releasing a new basegame every 5 years and announcing each new basegame about 15 months before their release then of course it will be TS5! ;)

Many simmers just don’t believe that because they think that TS4 still is missing all the “usual” EPs now that EA has replaced them with GPs and SPs instead. Beside that those simmers haven’t yet understood that it never was EA’s intention to just let TS4 become a new version of TS2 or TS3! Instead it always has been EA’s plan to let TS4 become a new and very different Sims game.

So EA planned to let TS4 even become a Sims game without toddlers and also without all the “traditional” EPs. It should be a new game and simmers who preferred the old style were expected to just still play TS3.

Later EA decided to release toddlers anyway though because the sales numbers for TS4 had been disappointing. So has EA also changed the plan about not releasing EPs like Seasons or University? I don’t know. But EA still mainly wants to release SPs and GPs because their low prices make them sell better and because they are much cheaper for EA to make. Also I am quite sure that EA wants the GPs to have mainly new content instead of becoming reduced versions of traditional EPs. But anyway all the traditional reasons why EA wants a new basegame to be released every 5 years are still clearly valid (mainly an old basegame not appealing to new simmers, new packs for an old basegame selling less and less and EA being unable to discount old packs without hurting the sales numbers for new packs). So unless EA really wants to stop the whole series soon I can’t see why EA shouldn’t announce TS5 in the middle of 2018 and release it about 15 months later as usual?

A lot of what you said just simply isn't true.

1: Sales aren't bad for the sims 4. They've posted almost every quarter that sims 4 is doing extremely well and grows each quarter

I never said that sales were bad. The reports aren’t too convincing though because they are without actual facts about the sales numbers. Saying that the total number of sales for TS4 grows every quarter is just saying something trivial. To judge anything we need to be able to compare the quarters instead. But I agree that sales numbers aren’t too bad because EA wouldn’t release more and more packs every year if they were.

2: Toddlers were planned from the beginning to be patched in as free content. This has been stated by multiple gurus.

I haven’t seen such statements? Anyway it doesn’t make any sense because then the toddlers would have been in the basegame and not released more than 2 years later. But yes, I believe that toddlers were planned originally. I just believe that they were omitted anyway because the developers got into time trouble and didn’t think that toddlers were so important. If they had planned to make them later and release them in a free patch then they would have done that within a few months. But instead they waited for years and only began to make them when all the reviews kept mentioning the missing toddlers even so long time after the release of the basegame.

3: It has also been stated that sims 4 is different, and will not follow the past sims series cycles. The guru's have said that they will keep making packs for sims 4 until it no longer makes sense to.

You seem to be twisting their statements again. Yes, Sims 4 is different and it doesn’t get 2-3 EPs each year like Sims 3 did because EA decided to replace half of the EPs with SPs and the new GPs. Also the structure of the developing teams and their sizes are different because the many small packs and the free stuff means that more small teams have to work at the same time. The focus on SPs also means that more artists and fewer programmers are generally needed. So they also move developers more around between the teams than they did earlier. All this just doesn’t mean that the reasons why EA always has released a new basegame after at most 5 years have changed because those reasons have always just been about marketing:
1. An old basegame with many packs released isn’t attractive to new simmers.
2. Some of the simmers stop playing after a couple of years.
3. Sales numbers for packs usually become lower and lower after some time.
4. Many simmers will begin to buy old discounted packs instead of buying the new packs.
5. A new basegame will get better sales numbers for both the basegame and packs again.
6. A new basegame means that bugs in the old one don’t matter anymore.
7. A new basegame can be designed better for the newer and stronger computers.

They have said they were working on (Ideas, Formal Discussion, approval, Development etc.) Toddlers for at least a year-1.5 years and had some ideas and informal discussion months before.

Then why didn’t they work on them?

Toddlers as detailed as those could easily be made in 3-6 months just like a GP is. Also postponing them 2 years and 4 months just to release them for free doesn’t make any sense - unless that it was a changed decision that made EA tell them to make the toddlers anyway.

Remember that EA isn’t a company that ever makes anything just to be kind. Everything that EA does is always about earning even more money. So EA doesn’t do anything unless EA thinks that it likely will be worth it. Free content is therefore only released to keep people interested in the game and to motivate them to check Origin more often. But toddlers weren’t nearly as cheap for EA to make as the usual free content in the updates is. Therefore the reason why EA ordered/allowed the developers to make the expensive toddlers anyway after so long time can only have been something different and for me to see also something quite desperate. So I am quite sure that the reason was that EA could see from the market analyses that the fact that the missing toddlers still was mentioned in all reviews hurt the sales numbers quite badly. So although the toddlers cost EA about the same huge amount to develop as a usual GP does and couldn’t even be sold for money then EA felt that they had no other choice except finally change an earlier decision and make the dropped toddlers anyway.

So EA can say whatever they want. I won’t believe them unless they admit that it was a changed decision to make the toddlers and release the expensive toddlers for free. I am not surprised though that EA doesn’t like to admit it ;)

"DcD2510;d-935713" wrote:
If something new is shown at EA Play regarding The Sims Franchise, what will it be?

Seasons or The Sims 5? I would like either, though The Sims 5 with a release date of 2020 or 2021 would be good.

Most likely Seasons if not probebly the next gamepack or a big car update.

"Erpe;c-16351354" wrote:

"Zeldaboy180;c-16351284" wrote:

"Erpe;c-16347184" wrote:
If EA has followed their usual plan about releasing a new basegame every 5 years and announcing each new basegame about 15 months before their release then of course it will be TS5! ;)

Many simmers just don’t believe that because they think that TS4 still is missing all the “usual” EPs now that EA has replaced them with GPs and SPs instead. Beside that those simmers haven’t yet understood that it never was EA’s intention to just let TS4 become a new version of TS2 or TS3! Instead it always has been EA’s plan to let TS4 become a new and very different Sims game.

So EA planned to let TS4 even become a Sims game without toddlers and also without all the “traditional” EPs. It should be a new game and simmers who preferred the old style were expected to just still play TS3.

Later EA decided to release toddlers anyway though because the sales numbers for TS4 had been disappointing. So has EA also changed the plan about not releasing EPs like Seasons or University? I don’t know. But EA still mainly wants to release SPs and GPs because their low prices make them sell better and because they are much cheaper for EA to make. Also I am quite sure that EA wants the GPs to have mainly new content instead of becoming reduced versions of traditional EPs. But anyway all the traditional reasons why EA wants a new basegame to be released every 5 years are still clearly valid (mainly an old basegame not appealing to new simmers, new packs for an old basegame selling less and less and EA being unable to discount old packs without hurting the sales numbers for new packs). So unless EA really wants to stop the whole series soon I can’t see why EA shouldn’t announce TS5 in the middle of 2018 and release it about 15 months later as usual?

A lot of what you said just simply isn't true.

1: Sales aren't bad for the sims 4. They've posted almost every quarter that sims 4 is doing extremely well and grows each quarter

I never said that sales were bad. The reports aren’t too convincing though because they are without actual facts about the sales numbers. Saying that the total number of sales for TS4 grows every quarter is just saying something trivial. To judge anything we need to be able to compare the quarters instead. But I agree that sales numbers aren’t too bad because EA wouldn’t release more and more packs every year if they were.

2: Toddlers were planned from the beginning to be patched in as free content. This has been stated by multiple gurus.

I haven’t seen such statements? Anyway it doesn’t make any sense because then the toddlers would have been in the basegame and not released more than 2 years later. But yes, I believe that toddlers were planned originally. I just believe that they were omitted anyway because the developers got into time trouble and didn’t think that toddlers were so important. If they had planned to make them later and release them in a free patch then they would have done that within a few months. But instead they waited for years and only began to make them when all the reviews kept mentioning the missing toddlers even so long time after the release of the basegame.

3: It has also been stated that sims 4 is different, and will not follow the past sims series cycles. The guru's have said that they will keep making packs for sims 4 until it no longer makes sense to.

You seem to be twisting their statements again. Yes, Sims 4 is different and it doesn’t get 2-3 EPs each year like Sims 3 did because EA decided to replace half of the EPs with SPs and the new GPs. Also the structure of the developing teams and their sizes are different because the many small packs and the free stuff means that more small teams have to work at the same time. The focus on SPs also means that more artists and fewer programmers are generally needed. So they also move developers more around between the teams than they did earlier. All this just doesn’t mean that the reasons why EA always has released a new basegame after at most 5 years have changed because those reasons have always just been about marketing:
1. An old basegame with many packs released isn’t attractive to new simmers.
2. Some of the simmers stop playing after a couple of years.
3. Sales numbers for packs usually become lower and lower after some time.
4. Many simmers will begin to buy old discounted packs instead of buying the new packs.
5. A new basegame will get better sales numbers for both the basegame and packs again.
6. A new basegame means that bugs in the old one don’t matter anymore.
7. A new basegame can be designed better for the newer and stronger computers.

Yes, it was stated by SimguruDrake and many other guru's that toddlers were planned to be patched in at a late from the start. The issue is they needed time to make them the best they could be. You claimed you could make them in 3-6 months? That is absolutely false, where do you get that assumption?

The Cas update alone took them over a year. Toddlers are a new life stage, and they had to COMPLETELY re write the engine to add them, on top of still working on other packs.


And I'm not twisting any words. It was stated by a sim guru that the Sims 4 Would not stop the development of packs until it no longer made sense to keep adding them. The sims 4 is different than sims 2 and 3, both of those had a number cap on the limit of expansions it could handle, the sims 4 has no limit on packs, it was built from the ground up to be expanded on. None of this is speculation, these are all guru quotes.

"Zeldaboy180;c-16352156" wrote:

"Erpe;c-16351354" wrote:

"Zeldaboy180;c-16351284" wrote:

"Erpe;c-16347184" wrote:
If EA has followed their usual plan about releasing a new basegame every 5 years and announcing each new basegame about 15 months before their release then of course it will be TS5! ;)

Many simmers just don’t believe that because they think that TS4 still is missing all the “usual” EPs now that EA has replaced them with GPs and SPs instead. Beside that those simmers haven’t yet understood that it never was EA’s intention to just let TS4 become a new version of TS2 or TS3! Instead it always has been EA’s plan to let TS4 become a new and very different Sims game.

So EA planned to let TS4 even become a Sims game without toddlers and also without all the “traditional” EPs. It should be a new game and simmers who preferred the old style were expected to just still play TS3.

Later EA decided to release toddlers anyway though because the sales numbers for TS4 had been disappointing. So has EA also changed the plan about not releasing EPs like Seasons or University? I don’t know. But EA still mainly wants to release SPs and GPs because their low prices make them sell better and because they are much cheaper for EA to make. Also I am quite sure that EA wants the GPs to have mainly new content instead of becoming reduced versions of traditional EPs. But anyway all the traditional reasons why EA wants a new basegame to be released every 5 years are still clearly valid (mainly an old basegame not appealing to new simmers, new packs for an old basegame selling less and less and EA being unable to discount old packs without hurting the sales numbers for new packs). So unless EA really wants to stop the whole series soon I can’t see why EA shouldn’t announce TS5 in the middle of 2018 and release it about 15 months later as usual?

A lot of what you said just simply isn't true.

1: Sales aren't bad for the sims 4. They've posted almost every quarter that sims 4 is doing extremely well and grows each quarter

I never said that sales were bad. The reports aren’t too convincing though because they are without actual facts about the sales numbers. Saying that the total number of sales for TS4 grows every quarter is just saying something trivial. To judge anything we need to be able to compare the quarters instead. But I agree that sales numbers aren’t too bad because EA wouldn’t release more and more packs every year if they were.

2: Toddlers were planned from the beginning to be patched in as free content. This has been stated by multiple gurus.

I haven’t seen such statements? Anyway it doesn’t make any sense because then the toddlers would have been in the basegame and not released more than 2 years later. But yes, I believe that toddlers were planned originally. I just believe that they were omitted anyway because the developers got into time trouble and didn’t think that toddlers were so important. If they had planned to make them later and release them in a free patch then they would have done that within a few months. But instead they waited for years and only began to make them when all the reviews kept mentioning the missing toddlers even so long time after the release of the basegame.

3: It has also been stated that sims 4 is different, and will not follow the past sims series cycles. The guru's have said that they will keep making packs for sims 4 until it no longer makes sense to.

You seem to be twisting their statements again. Yes, Sims 4 is different and it doesn’t get 2-3 EPs each year like Sims 3 did because EA decided to replace half of the EPs with SPs and the new GPs. Also the structure of the developing teams and their sizes are different because the many small packs and the free stuff means that more small teams have to work at the same time. The focus on SPs also means that more artists and fewer programmers are generally needed. So they also move developers more around between the teams than they did earlier. All this just doesn’t mean that the reasons why EA always has released a new basegame after at most 5 years have changed because those reasons have always just been about marketing:
1. An old basegame with many packs released isn’t attractive to new simmers.
2. Some of the simmers stop playing after a couple of years.
3. Sales numbers for packs usually become lower and lower after some time.
4. Many simmers will begin to buy old discounted packs instead of buying the new packs.
5. A new basegame will get better sales numbers for both the basegame and packs again.
6. A new basegame means that bugs in the old one don’t matter anymore.
7. A new basegame can be designed better for the newer and stronger computers.

Yes, it was stated by SimguruDrake and many other guru's that toddlers were planned to be patched in at a late from the start. The issue is they needed time to make them the best they could be. You claimed you could make them in 3-6 months? That is absolutely false, where do you get that assumption?

The Cas update alone took them over a year. Toddlers are a new life stage, and they had to COMPLETELY re write the engine to add them, on top of still working on other packs.


And I'm not twisting any words. It was stated by a sim guru that the Sims 4 Would not stop the development of packs until it no longer made sense to keep adding them. The sims 4 is different than sims 2 and 3, both of those had a number cap on the limit of expansions it could handle, the sims 4 has no limit on packs, it was built from the ground up to be expanded on. None of this is speculation, these are all guru quotes.

They did not rewrite the entire engine when adding in toddlers. We’re they a ton of work? Absolutely, especially since they did not have any work accomplished on them when the base game released, and had lots of DLC already released for the game that could potentially break. A complete rewrite of the engine would be for a brand new game.

I’m also going to somewhat disagree with the verbiage where you say they were planned as patch content “from the start” - could you possibly find where SGDrake said that? I find it weird that they would say that, because the omission of toddlers was originally blamed on a lack of time/staff - not as an intentional move. Do you think pools were also purposefully omitted and reserved as patch content? Ghosts? I think you might be misrepresenting what these gurus are actually saying.