"GreenTurtle;c-17890455" wrote:
"Cinebar;c-17889451" wrote:
"GreenTurtle;c-17889276" wrote:
"Cinebar;c-17888706" wrote:
"GreenTurtle;c-17888596" wrote:
@Cinebar I agree with you there's a lot of focus on the simself, but there's something I don't understand about your argument.
The gender patch added a load of content for non LGBTQ+ players, as well. Plenty of hairstyles and clothes work great on either frame. There's no reason those items needed to be separate in the first place. They were unisex from the start, we just couldn't use them. You believe this update was unnecessary and/or even excessive.
But then, you do agree it's a good thing that they've updated and fixed the dark skin tones, as well as the insultingly bad base game hairs. How is that any different from the gender patch? All they've done is a added some simple to code options that you can completely ignore (you need to toggle a menu before you can even see them) and updated a huge set of assets.
Can you explain why one of these updates was unnecessary? Both add representation to minorities and both add content in the form of a bunch of assets.
I don't see the gender patch an update for players who wouldn't use it. Because let's look at some hair. Let's say a long hair style for male or female or whomever. Males sometimes have the sides shaved to shape the sideburn underneath that long lock on the side. Because they don't want to look too feminine as their own taste. So, just removing a boundary where Sims can switch hairstyles doesn't really reflect how that hairstyle is worn often. You do know if you toggle on the gender patch filters townies will dress and generate within those filters don't you? Even if you turn it back off just long enough to get a shirt or a hairstyle. So, it's good for the LGBTQ community in many respects but not so good if a person just wants to grab a hairstyle or a piece of clothing then turn it back off. The game goes ahead and starts generating those things on townies etc. But that might just be the lack of ability in TS4 to play the game as if we rule it, when really we don't.
Actually, that isn't true. When you remove the masculine/feminine tag to select an item, you don't change the sim's preference. It also doesn't affect the townies in any way. You can only change the clothing preference in CAS, in the advanced menu under the sim's gender option. Again, this only affects the current sim. The game won't ever generate townies with clothing for the opposite gender by itself, only the player can dress them that way.
As for the hairstyles, I know plenty of men who don't shave the sides who keep their hair long, as well as women who wear their hair short. I personally get much use out of this update. But I guess you haven't used it very much if you if you thought it was that invasive. I too would be scared to use it if I thought it would affect all my newly generated townies.
"Cinebar;c-17888706" wrote:
I knew this thread would become all about different groups if I answered anyone and just didn't let my original post stand as it is. It's really not even about LGBTQ only that Maxis 'seems' to be only focused on the community rather than any other groups...and why has Simself become the motto of the game rather than the so called 'play with life' line. It is others who demanded I name some other groups and I knew once anyone or if I did this would dissolve into a thread about a wish list for groups or types of Sims (diverse) rather than the heart of the thread which still remains about Simself type gameplay vs any other type of gameplay. I resign myself to see we can't get past the forest for the trees.
But staying within your disscussion but no other group has received so much attention and yes, I guess that can also be an argument for other groups but why are we even all scrambling to get our Simselves in a game where it didn't matter before? It's the theme of The Sims now, and frankly as I stated in the original post, seems to be all the game is about anymore.
I never asked you which group needed to be represented next, I only wanted to know why you were fine with the recent POC updates, but not the gender update. It seems you had misconceptions about the gender update. If so, then going forward, would you have any problems with them adding and fixing a few more CAS items? Or possibly an option for non-binary pronouns somewhere in the future?
Or do you still want them to stop entirely with all the representation updates?
I can honestly state the gender patch if turned on then off again later, still operates as if it is still on. That was true for the years I did play TS4 and replayed TS4. Just like TS3's SP toggle even if off was not completely off. Just like TS4's No Free Will toggle is not off even if off.
Just saying oh, just use the gender patch toggle to grab some clothes for males from the females. No, I'm sorry, that isn't good enough since most of the clothes come with breasts shadows. There are hundreds of complaints about all that since they day of the release of the patch years ago. Not all men want breasts imprints showing in their shirts or tops. So, no the male Sim is not represented very well in TS4 if that is the answer to help make males 'feel' included.
You should probably file a bug report, because that isn't normal behavior. I use the opposite frame items quite a lot and I've never experienced that in my game, ever.
"Cinebar;c-17890148" wrote:
No,I'm sorry, but what other articles are in the game that represent the disabled? Of any gender or sexual orientation? Nothing. We all have to eat, sleep, work (some) get money, or barter, use the bathroom, etc. etc. That is normal for all of us no matter who we are so no, the lack of representation for the groups I mentioned is overwhelming if you step out of that bubble.
I know you didn't initially want to bring up any groups, but you have been bringing up the disabled, sexual orientation and other underrepresented cultures quite a bit. Do you actually want these groups to be represented? Or are you bringing them up as an example of things that haven't been represented as an argument as to why they should stop with the whole representation thing? And that these groups shouldn't represented, either?
You asked some important questions of me. That's good. If all the hoopla is about Simself then we can see it is failing other groups. Is Simself just for the trans players and people within the community of gender identity? Hear me out, please. Because we can see gay isn't gay but Bi, straight isn't straight but bi. lesbian isn't lesbian but bi if the game can change the Sim on a dime if they meet a flirty Sim and our 'simself' suddenly changes from any of those into a bisexual Sim. Or always was as someone said. Isn't that a bit dishonest to claim 'play your Simself'?
Are there other types of people we can play as Simself if they are not in the LGBTQ community? We can say we play heterosexual Sims but we don't since they are all Bi. We can say we play our disabled selves but we can't. We could pretend to play our religious selves, but we can't. Only a few types of religious Sims are in the game with a headdress etc. No others.
So, the question would be does Maxis even know they are failing at representation if only one community is ever promoted and on a yearly basis and with trying to meet many more requests within that category of peoples as more and more initials get added while nothing is done about other groups. Or finally just some skin tone fixes. Did I say something wrong when I pointed out how hard Maxis had worked to make the community happy? Haven't they worked hard? Because look at the past several years. They have added marriage, they have added a gender patch for trans, they are working on gender neutral pronouns for non binary players, they have added (per requerts) Sims in trailers, in premades, in homes in the game etc. etc. They have a big announcement each year, they do a lot of interviews expressing the need to do all this, etc. etc. And they collaborate with those in the community to bring content creation to the game. That's a lot, isn't it? if we look at what they haven't done for others. So, the question is this, is Simself just for people within the gender patch or every person on earth? Because they still can't play their Simselves.
I would say Maxis would not be able to do all that is requested for every type of person on earth to play 'Simself' so on one hand maybe just maybe play Simself should be dropped other than what they have already done, or it starts to look like hypocrisy and a joke or worse an insult.
On the other hand shouldn't they be represented, too and with as much diligence? It's up to Maxis, I'm just pointing out while Simself overtook the focus of The Sims, it fails to meet most people's standards if they are as inclusive and diverse as they claim. It's food for thought for Maxis, or is it really just about one group afterall.
Here is the truth, I really can't play my Simself...why should I or anyone else be left out of a game claiming to be about Simself. But I never thought about it before until Maxis started pushing play your Simself...I was quite happy to play a Sim, not me, for twenty some years until I see no, there are many of us out here who can't play Simself so what is better for the players, to play a game about some characters that live in an imaginary world and imaginary things happen to them, and no they don't have to be us or look like us...they are imaginary...or a game that says play your Simself but then fails so badly at making that possible. And I might add, screams how inclusive and diverse they are being when no, Simself is not really possible, not even for gay, straight and or lesbian and or disabled or religious (of all types), because aren't gay, straight, and or lesbian also disabled and or sometimes religious and or anything else and they aren't bi are they? It fails.
Maybe that tag line should be dropped.
