Forum Discussion

4 years ago

Representation

I will do my best not to come across as being "political" for that is NOT my intent. I want to start out with that I love the Representation we have in the game. From February showcasing Black Simmers to LatinX/Hispanic History Month being celebrated and LBGTQIA sims in every pack since Cats and Dogs added to the game.

However more really needs to be done. I will do my best to keep it sweet without trying to offend anybody.

With that said I'll explain why I'm disappointed with the Cottage Living pack and focusing on farming. I feel that groups races ethnicities and cultures not in the sims at all with ZERO representation should be a higher priority to adding in farming or for that matter occult sims. I think that fixing serious problems in the game should be fixed before any added kits and packs are introduced. Those should be the sims team's first priority in my opinion. I could be completely happy with fewer problems bugs and issues in the game if it means no new kits or packs for a year or two.

We have Pacific Islanders with representation in the game. Nothing added that is actually part of the culture like Hula dancing or even Luaus as added food and parties for our sims.

We have Japanese Representation kind of. When I think of Japan I don't think snowboarding skiing or even rock climbing. I think fishing, tokusatsu, great foods like sushi, sentai, stage shows, Tea Ceremony, anime, J-Dramas, J-Pop, manga, Japanese Gardens and so much more. Which really wasn't added with Snowy Escape. I end up just deleting and rebuilding the world. I have to use CC to set up a proper Japanese Tea House with a tea ceremony laid out.

We have LatinX/Hispanic Representation to a point though it's Mexican based. There are more LatinX and Hispanic cultures than just Mexican.

We have Black Representation that really needs improving with better hair and some more skintones added in. Even added foods have a world with the beauty of Harlem and Black communities throughout the world. One of my best friends growing up still lives in Harlem. I used to hang out with him and his mom taught me how to cook. She is one of the most amazing human beings I have ever met.

We have LBGTQIA representation in the game that could be tweaked a bit.

There isn't Native American/Canada's First People Represented at all I know that every Nation/tribe being represented is kind of impossible.

There aren't a lot of cultures ethnicities and races represented yet in the game.

Asians are more than just the Japanese. There are Indians, Middle Easterners, Chinese, Koreans and so on.

What about European cultures with French, Italian, Greek, Spanish, Portuguese and so on.

What about Jamaicans and Haitians?

My list goes on.

What about the Disabled? I know it's impossible to get every disability out there but wheelchairs hearing aids walkers elevators and canes aren't that difficult. There is CC and mods out there for these items. I know some people don't want it at all. But I have mods and Custom traits to represent some disabilities and mental health.

I understand not wanting to offend and trigger people. I understand that as a company being politically correct is an absolute must. I understand that they don't want to misrepresent and poorly represent or do something that would be utterly insulting and stereotypical even to thoughts outside that race, culture or ethnicity. I understand religion and politics cannot be done without upsetting and offending and triggering somebody. For religion and politics, every political party worldwide and every religion added in including atheism and anarchy.

It shouldn't be the responsibility of CC creators and modders to get this done at all.

58 Replies

keekee53
Seasoned Ace
4 years ago
"StrawberryYogurt;c-17937254" wrote:
Ditto. This isnt a fashion game. Sims 4 cares too much about appearances or the superficial. People are too worried about what their sims are (gender, race) and not worried enough about WHO their sims are (personality, interests, hobbies, memories).

We want consequences and personality for our sims. Some do want political correctness or Diversity™ because as soon as something that is diverse is added, but not the kind of diversity you want (i.e shrines) it gets twitter cancelled. We're tired of the game being manipulated as a political or social issue tool. Keep activism and politics out the game and let us just play.

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!! You barely heard any complaints about skin in sims 2, at least I don't remember, because those sims HAD personality. You knew when they were, happy or angry. We didn't need a buff to tell us. There was a memory system so we could understand what happened to them in their life. Big events were important to them and the sims felt more connected to each other not just existing in the same world. I personally think sentiments are just not enough in Sims 4.

I have to say I am tired of the game's focus being on diversity and political correctness and LESS ON MAKING IT FUN and MEANINGFUL. I wish the devs never opened that can of worms because they will never get it right anyways. Someone will always say it is not enough.
readerbug2
4 years ago
I like the idea of having different packs being based on different cultures and in different parts of the world, like with Snowy Escape, Island Living, and Cottage Living. I have a save file where I try to make each world a different country, and there unfortunately isn't a lot of in-game content I can use to create those authentic environments. But with these packs, I get to do a lot more, and it spawns great CC for whatever Maxis can't squeeze into the pack.

Outside of that save file, part of the fantasy when playing the Sims is being able to travel anywhere and do anything. So sending my Sims to Mt. Komorebi for a day of skiing and then relaxing at the onsen is perfect. If the team can continue to weave these cultural elements into different packs, I would be pretty happy with it!

I'm also a huge fan of the updated skin and hairs, so I say keep them coming! They help with representation, but it also brings some of the older base game hairs up to speed with the newer technology. I don't use some of the old hairs just because their textures are so bad compared with what we have now.
Rambley_Raccoon
Rising Traveler
4 years ago
"keekee53;c-17950315" wrote:
"StrawberryYogurt;c-17937254" wrote:
Ditto. This isnt a fashion game. Sims 4 cares too much about appearances or the superficial. People are too worried about what their sims are (gender, race) and not worried enough about WHO their sims are (personality, interests, hobbies, memories).

We want consequences and personality for our sims. Some do want political correctness or Diversity™ because as soon as something that is diverse is added, but not the kind of diversity you want (i.e shrines) it gets twitter cancelled. We're tired of the game being manipulated as a political or social issue tool. Keep activism and politics out the game and let us just play.

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!! You barely heard any complaints about skin in sims 2, at least I don't remember, because those sims HAD personality. You knew when they were, happy or angry. We didn't need a buff to tell us. There was a memory system so we could understand what happened to them in their life. Big events were important to them and the sims felt more connected to each other not just existing in the same world. I personally think sentiments are just not enough in Sims 4.

I have to say I am tired of the game's focus being on diversity and political correctness and LESS ON MAKING IT FUN and MEANINGFUL. I wish the devs never opened that can of worms because they will never get it right anyways. Someone will always say it is not enough.

I agree with you 100 percent! Nobody worried about political correctness or representation in Sims 1 or Sims 2 or Sims 3..they just liked having fun and enjoying the game. Sims 4 seems to be all about political correctness and representation. Whatever happened to just ENJOYING the game and not worrying about representation or diversity?

I'm praying sims 5 will be more like Sims 1-3,where people just enjoyed the game and didn't worry about being represented or politically correct.
Plumbob_Claire
4 years ago
I love that representation was added into the game. It added flavour and vibrancy where it lacked. We have a ton of skintones, better textured hairs, sliders for makeup, and CAS/Build/Buy items as well. It added some value to the base game where some, including me, felt it lacked.

But the CAS/Build/Buy is great and for that very reason it proves we spend way too much time in it and not enough in-game playing our sims. We don't need more contours, jewellery or accessories. I see way too many simmers speak on how they enter CAS, make a pretty sim and exit game, or that CAS is all that they play (and that's okay too; no judgement!).

Our CAS/Build/Buy has numerous options, an abundance of things to choose from. I wish game play could be on that level as well. There's nothing for us once we select done. Enriched, diverse game play is needed.

The developers time and resources NEED to be poured into a greater game play experience. The Sims 4 feels like the neglected child. :(
Cinebar
4 years ago
"keekee53;c-17950299" wrote:
"drakharis;d-991904" wrote:
I will do my best not to come across as being "political" for that is NOT my intent. I want to start out with that I love the Representation we have in the game. From February showcasing Black Simmers to LatinX/Hispanic History Month being celebrated and LBGTQIA sims in every pack since Cats and Dogs added to the game.

However more really needs to be done. I will do my best to keep it sweet without trying to offend anybody.

With that said I'll explain why I'm disappointed with the Cottage Living pack and focusing on farming. I feel that groups races ethnicities and cultures not in the sims at all with ZERO representation should be a higher priority to adding in farming or for that matter occult sims. I think that fixing serious problems in the game should be fixed before any added kits and packs are introduced. Those should be the sims team's first priority in my opinion. I could be completely happy with fewer problems bugs and issues in the game if it means no new kits or packs for a year or two.

We have Pacific Islanders with representation in the game. Nothing added that is actually part of the culture like Hula dancing or even Luaus as added food and parties for our sims.

We have Japanese Representation kind of. When I think of Japan I don't think snowboarding skiing or even rock climbing. I think fishing, tokusatsu, great foods like sushi, sentai, stage shows, Tea Ceremony, anime, J-Dramas, J-Pop, manga, Japanese Gardens and so much more. Which really wasn't added with Snowy Escape. I end up just deleting and rebuilding the world. I have to use CC to set up a proper Japanese Tea House with a tea ceremony laid out.

We have LatinX/Hispanic Representation to a point though it's Mexican based. There are more LatinX and Hispanic cultures than just Mexican.

We have Black Representation that really needs improving with better hair and some more skintones added in. Even added foods have a world with the beauty of Harlem and Black communities throughout the world. One of my best friends growing up still lives in Harlem. I used to hang out with him and his mom taught me how to cook. She is one of the most amazing human beings I have ever met.

We have LBGTQIA representation in the game that could be tweaked a bit.

There isn't Native American/Canada's First People Represented at all I know that every Nation/tribe being represented is kind of impossible.

There aren't a lot of cultures ethnicities and races represented yet in the game.

Asians are more than just the Japanese. There are Indians, Middle Easterners, Chinese, Koreans and so on.

What about European cultures with French, Italian, Greek, Spanish, Portuguese and so on.

What about Jamaicans and Haitians?

My list goes on.

What about the Disabled? I know it's impossible to get every disability out there but wheelchairs hearing aids walkers elevators and canes aren't that difficult. There is CC and mods out there for these items. I know some people don't want it at all. But I have mods and Custom traits to represent some disabilities and mental health.

I understand not wanting to offend and trigger people. I understand that as a company being politically correct is an absolute must. I understand that they don't want to misrepresent and poorly represent or do something that would be utterly insulting and stereotypical even to thoughts outside that race, culture or ethnicity. I understand religion and politics cannot be done without upsetting and offending and triggering somebody. For religion and politics, every political party worldwide and every religion added in including atheism and anarchy.

It shouldn't be the responsibility of CC creators and modders to get this done at all.

No to disabilities, mental health etc...I will refer you to the remove the lactose intolerant trait thread. As I said over there, don't even ask if this community cannot even get through having a lactose intolerant trait, there is NO WAY they will get through disabilities or mental health issues. I can just see the thread now. I suffer from xyz and I think it should be removed because it is offensive to me.

Exactly. This community likes to preach diversity but actually they only mean fluff. Diversity for me but not for thee type mindset.
Bmm209
4 years ago
"Cinebar;c-17951642" wrote:
"keekee53;c-17950299" wrote:
"drakharis;d-991904" wrote:
I will do my best not to come across as being "political" for that is NOT my intent. I want to start out with that I love the Representation we have in the game. From February showcasing Black Simmers to LatinX/Hispanic History Month being celebrated and LBGTQIA sims in every pack since Cats and Dogs added to the game.

However more really needs to be done. I will do my best to keep it sweet without trying to offend anybody.

With that said I'll explain why I'm disappointed with the Cottage Living pack and focusing on farming. I feel that groups races ethnicities and cultures not in the sims at all with ZERO representation should be a higher priority to adding in farming or for that matter occult sims. I think that fixing serious problems in the game should be fixed before any added kits and packs are introduced. Those should be the sims team's first priority in my opinion. I could be completely happy with fewer problems bugs and issues in the game if it means no new kits or packs for a year or two.

We have Pacific Islanders with representation in the game. Nothing added that is actually part of the culture like Hula dancing or even Luaus as added food and parties for our sims.

We have Japanese Representation kind of. When I think of Japan I don't think snowboarding skiing or even rock climbing. I think fishing, tokusatsu, great foods like sushi, sentai, stage shows, Tea Ceremony, anime, J-Dramas, J-Pop, manga, Japanese Gardens and so much more. Which really wasn't added with Snowy Escape. I end up just deleting and rebuilding the world. I have to use CC to set up a proper Japanese Tea House with a tea ceremony laid out.

We have LatinX/Hispanic Representation to a point though it's Mexican based. There are more LatinX and Hispanic cultures than just Mexican.

We have Black Representation that really needs improving with better hair and some more skintones added in. Even added foods have a world with the beauty of Harlem and Black communities throughout the world. One of my best friends growing up still lives in Harlem. I used to hang out with him and his mom taught me how to cook. She is one of the most amazing human beings I have ever met.

We have LBGTQIA representation in the game that could be tweaked a bit.

There isn't Native American/Canada's First People Represented at all I know that every Nation/tribe being represented is kind of impossible.

There aren't a lot of cultures ethnicities and races represented yet in the game.

Asians are more than just the Japanese. There are Indians, Middle Easterners, Chinese, Koreans and so on.

What about European cultures with French, Italian, Greek, Spanish, Portuguese and so on.

What about Jamaicans and Haitians?

My list goes on.

What about the Disabled? I know it's impossible to get every disability out there but wheelchairs hearing aids walkers elevators and canes aren't that difficult. There is CC and mods out there for these items. I know some people don't want it at all. But I have mods and Custom traits to represent some disabilities and mental health.

I understand not wanting to offend and trigger people. I understand that as a company being politically correct is an absolute must. I understand that they don't want to misrepresent and poorly represent or do something that would be utterly insulting and stereotypical even to thoughts outside that race, culture or ethnicity. I understand religion and politics cannot be done without upsetting and offending and triggering somebody. For religion and politics, every political party worldwide and every religion added in including atheism and anarchy.

It shouldn't be the responsibility of CC creators and modders to get this done at all.

No to disabilities, mental health etc...I will refer you to the remove the lactose intolerant trait thread. As I said over there, don't even ask if this community cannot even get through having a lactose intolerant trait, there is NO WAY they will get through disabilities or mental health issues. I can just see the thread now. I suffer from xyz and I think it should be removed because it is offensive to me.

Exactly. This community likes to preach diversity but actually they only mean fluff. Diversity for me but not for thee type mindset.

This is so true.
ChampandGirlie
Seasoned Ace
4 years ago
I would like it if this weren't a dichotomy of diversity or gameplay. My opinion is somewhere in the middle because I think this is a better game with the level of diversity that they have added and I like that the game can clearly be more inclusive. I don't think that the idea of sacrificing diversity for gameplay is a good one at all.

At the same time, I do agree that the game needs more gameplay, more to do, more ways to actually play. There are a lot of different forms of gameplay. Cottage Living's style is one form of that. Personally I really enjoyed Snowy Escape, it has a lot of gameplay whether you are playing with Japanese characters, playing with the very snowy area or just traveling. I had a minor petpeeve that they did not update the cocktail list to have any Asian-inspired cocktails at the bar. This meant that sending my sims to those bars felt exactly like sending them anywhere else. I get that they would probably still have a lot of the drinks from the other worlds but I think it was an oversight.

One of the challenges that I see is that I agree with the comments that a lot of the game has basically been geared to 8 year olds. I think most of the players are teens to adults and the game should reflect that more by making sure to continue to update gameplay for adults. I'm not just talking about WooHoo which they continue to add. (I think they should but I think they need to make the game more grown up in other ways too).

I think it is good that they are adding a lot of cultural stuff and I honestly really enjoy a lot of the cultural packs. I like sending my sims traveling anytime but especially now that we are in a time period in which we are dealing with a public health crisis. I'll admit that it is great to still be able to travel with my sims. That is a form of gameplay and should be kept, but yes, there are a lot of forms of gameplay out there.

The recent discussion from the team this week seemed to indicate that they will add at least 3 new occult forms to TS4. It sounded like they are actually working on fairies, werewolves and zombies. It also sounded like they just aren't ready yet. They were a bit cryptic about adding gameplay as a second priority behind representative game updates. I mean, some of what they are updating is not anything that I personally need like the pre-mades lore update. There are a lot of players who play with the lore more than I do so I am guessing that is for them.

I do think it is a good idea for the community to pressure for more gameplay of different types. That should not be on a backburner.

I will just add that it sounds like there will be a new separate game coming out. If I had to guess, I think it will be a fantasy game of some type. I am actually of the opinion that in the future they might want to split the supernatural and realistic play because then they could release more of both kinds of content. As for TS5, I'm really not sure that I will move on and if I do, I will wait a while - even several years. I do think they are improving TS4 gradually. It does not make sense to abandon it IMO. I have interest in the new engine but I don't think the model of just abruptly starting over is a good one. Likewise, I actually enjoy my game so I will obviously keep playing it.

If they are doing something like a new version of Sims Medieval, I might be interested as long as it isn't all subscription-based or an MMO.
MsPigglyPooh
Seasoned Ace
4 years ago
"Lady_Ballora;c-17951227" wrote:
"keekee53;c-17950315" wrote:
"StrawberryYogurt;c-17937254" wrote:
Ditto. This isnt a fashion game. Sims 4 cares too much about appearances or the superficial. People are too worried about what their sims are (gender, race) and not worried enough about WHO their sims are (personality, interests, hobbies, memories).

We want consequences and personality for our sims. Some do want political correctness or Diversity™ because as soon as something that is diverse is added, but not the kind of diversity you want (i.e shrines) it gets twitter cancelled. We're tired of the game being manipulated as a political or social issue tool. Keep activism and politics out the game and let us just play.

YOU HIT THE NAIL ON THE HEAD!! You barely heard any complaints about skin in sims 2, at least I don't remember, because those sims HAD personality. You knew when they were, happy or angry. We didn't need a buff to tell us. There was a memory system so we could understand what happened to them in their life. Big events were important to them and the sims felt more connected to each other not just existing in the same world. I personally think sentiments are just not enough in Sims 4.

I have to say I am tired of the game's focus being on diversity and political correctness and LESS ON MAKING IT FUN and MEANINGFUL. I wish the devs never opened that can of worms because they will never get it right anyways. Someone will always say it is not enough.

I agree with you 100 percent! Nobody worried about political correctness or representation in Sims 1 or Sims 2 or Sims 3..they just liked having fun and enjoying the game. Sims 4 seems to be all about political correctness and representation. Whatever happened to just ENJOYING the game and not worrying about representation or diversity?

I'm praying sims 5 will be more like Sims 1-3,where people just enjoyed the game and didn't worry about being represented or politically correct.

Ah yes, when a game was a true game. Sadly things have changed... I don't have faith in the sims 5. Especially if this is the community pushing forward. We older simmers who've been there since the start are not who EA wants to please anymore. And since it seems everything is about political correctness and feel represented I just don't have hope anymore. I'm glad I can go back and play 2 and 3 and live in the nostalgia of better days, IMO, but our time is up.