Sims Four Live Mode is Lacking

"JoAnne65;c-16610600" wrote:
Changing their traits won’t have any effect is my experience? I play an evil sim atm and apart from the occasional muhahaha I haven’t seen any other effect so far. Like getting whims to be mean to sims or things like that (which would be nice because she’s a vampire). Or scaring them autonomously. Don’t mind so far because the vampire gameplay in itself is awesome, but I have to fill in her being mean and evil myself.

Yeah changing the traits doesn't make them act all that much different it just opens up different interactions on the pie menu that I wouldn't experience in playing a single family. I never even pay much attention to the whims.

"simgirl1010;c-16610968" wrote:

"JoAnne65;c-16610600" wrote:
Changing their traits won’t have any effect is my experience? I play an evil sim atm and apart from the occasional muhahaha I haven’t seen any other effect so far. Like getting whims to be mean to sims or things like that (which would be nice because she’s a vampire). Or scaring them autonomously. Don’t mind so far because the vampire gameplay in itself is awesome, but I have to fill in her being mean and evil myself.

Yeah changing the traits doesn't make them act all that much different it just opens up different interactions on the pie menu that I wouldn't experience in playing a single family. I never even pay much attention to the whims.

Oh, that might well be true (I ignore the whims as well tbh).

I can imagine how boring it gets for rotational players.

I only control one household through generations of the same family and I somehow manage to make each heir distinct and unique. Every heir gets the world remodeled for them, every heir does something different for a living, lives in a different house, they have drastically different stories, motivations. That's only because playing one household makes the gameplay slower and you don't end up discovering every single gameplay aspect too quickly, having 60 different saves and 500 households. I also have autonomy off so I don't really witness the robotic go-to actions people report, like using the computer all the time. Almost 4 years in and I still have things to try out in this game but I don't kid myself that it's not strictly because of my specific playstyle. Playing like I see other people do would make me uninstall TS4 in 2015 and Id never purchase any DLC after GTW.

I want to try rotating sometimes, control the whole town like I used to do in TS2, but I just know it wouldn't work out. My excitement would fizzle out so quickly that spending hours and hours setting everything up wouldn't even be worth it.

Which is sad, because even though I do my best to keep my gameplay interesting and my sims unique, I do get bored of them sometimes. And I find myself wanting to create another save, only to ask myself "what for, though? To get more of what you just got bored of?"

Luckily TS2, with a little bit of effort, can still be played today. That's the game I get the most satisfaction out of like you @fullspiral .

I've accepted this franchise is done. I believe they really haven't started any work on TS5.

I created a new discussion with some ideas that would make The Sims 4 more interesting and less repetitive:
http://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/944663/unexpected-moments-in-the-sims-4#latest

@Sk8rblaze Looking at your screenshot just made me sad. Summer festivities in TS3 included skating, soccer, actual eating contest, water balloon fight that actually worked, face painting, tanning booths, snow cones...

And what you've got in TS4? A sad skating rink that townies don't even use and a single concession stand. That's it.

Now I'm not trying to say TS3 was a perfect game. It wasn't, and it certainly wasn't for everyone. I just think it's unacceptable that we're getting EPs so light on content these days, so light that a seasons expansion only gives you sprinklers and a kiddie pool to play with in the summer.

Speaking of collecting, looks like it's been thrown into TS4 last minute just for the sake of it. Always had the impression that devs were just like "quick, let's research people's favorite things to do in games these days...ah, collecting items....okay we'll scatter some rocks around the world for people to pick up I guess"

The Sims have out grown themselves or itself. It's way past time they started to have their own intellegence. And I don't mean being able to care for themselves. I mean intellegence. I want to see Sims talk to my Sim about what just happened. Whatever that might have been.

Come over for a visit to talk about neighborhood changes (and know what those changes are, new building, new activity etc.) talk about Joe and or Mary, and again whatever was going on with them. If my Sim knows Joe and the visitor knows Joe then they should discuss Joe and anything they agree or disagree about Joe. See? Normal Human Behavior. Sims just randomly talking about anything should be a thing of the past. They should be more aware of each other, their neighbors and the world.

I did appreciate TS4 gave us the ability to mention a Sim to another Sim and how that all works out but I would like for Sims to have real meaningful conversations if this game is all about conversations instead of interactions.

But TS4 doesn't even live up to TS2 interactions and intellegence, like when a Sim is sad not even the parents go comfort the kid who is sad in this game. They couldn't care less.

Sims who witness a death should not only being upset, traumatized (have you seen someone die? I have_ ) or sad, but should discuss it, but instead they stand around grinning. Especially if they are law enforcement, someone should have ran over to check on the dead Sim, call an ambulance, or something. But what did the cops do in this game? They stood around with big grins, (maybe Joey had it coming) ate food, watched TV while supposedly investigating a crime scene. Well, wow, someone just died at that crime scene, and though not written into the game that should have thrown everything into topsy turvy. Say this slowly 'murder'. Lol The Sims should have been freaked out to see someone die at a crime scene even if it was an elderly guy.

There is no room in TS4 for improvising. The game continued and no one cared. That is what is boring.

Some day the game will be smarter and improvise any situation right into my imagination. But until that day, I will continue with TS2 where they at least all run over to see somone dead, and cry. Trauma shouldn't only happen just because you met the Sim but because you witnessed death, and Sims should have more soul. ETA: Life is hard and these Sims in particular in TS4, are handed everything on a silver platter.


ETA: I do appreciate you added death notices, now, don't go watering down the buffs.

"JoAnne65;c-16609163" wrote:

"Sk8rblaze;c-16608897" wrote:
It’s because it lacks design as an actual game.

The Sims was always a game (especially the first one) where you had to be very particular in how you strategized playing. Planning, budgeting, and the possibility of something randomly going wrong were constantly on your mind. It was truly designed as a strategic life simulation.

Now, it’s too focused on aesthetic. The developers literally call new objects that ONLY have new animations tied to them as new gameplay. How is gameplay watching my Sim do something that has little effect on the game itself?

Additionally, the systems in the game, such as collecting and gardening, feel useless because the designers seemingly don’t know how to make them interesting, fun, and relevant.

In another life simulation game, called Animal Crossing, collecting is one of the core parts of its gameplay. You donate whatever you collect to the museum or you can sell it for money, however, a completed section of the museum grants a very special golden version of the tool you used for collection (e.g golden net for bugs). In Stardew Valley, crafting is a core element of the game. And unlike The Sims 4, crafting in Stardew Valley actually has a purpose; crafting better gardening tools for instance makes gardening faster.

In The Sims 4, the design of things like collecting and such are so incredibly weak. Tell me why would I want to collect My Sims figurines or snow globes over and over in The Sims??? Why would I want to bother spending time collecting bugs when time flow in this game is so limiting, and my Sim would make more of a profit doing other things? Mind you — it goes further than this. I haven’t even delved into how poorly designed emotions, traits, whims, aspirations, etc. are.

This is what happens when you hire a base game producer that primarily designed Facebook games and not PC simulation or RPG games.

Ex. Act. Ly. I've been strictly a simmer for years, but currently I'm playing Animal Crossing and exactly what you say has crossed my mind. How come (and I'm in fact also looking at Sims 3 in that respect) I find things like collecting and fishing so addictive in AC and a bore in Sims. It's because in AC they found the perfect balance between making it rewarding (it's fun to walk through your museum and watch everything you collected over time and it's great to catch bugs/fish you know will make a lot of money), being not too hard and not too easy (I'm not ashamed of the trademark casual player, I am and proud/quite satisfied to be) and on top of that they added gameplay to the collecting/fishing itself. The action. Catching bugs or fish isn't based on luck, it's totally up to the player. Same with growing flowers and digging weeds. The way they've done it would perfectly fit and be fun in a Sims game.

I agree. ACNL is very addicting lol I finally got my town to the perfect town status and it took forever! (Given the fact I went from constantly playing to occasional to constantly playing again lol) But I'm still not done. My museum still needs work. I haven't collected all fish and bugs, I haven't even gotten all the badges. One would think the sims 4 would keep someone more entertained than AC and its the opposite for me. I would love collecting to be like Animal crossing. Especially now that seasons was add. You can only catch certain things at certain times and seasons. It would fit the game great and I'd actually want to collect in the sims 4. I avoid it right now.

"Jordan061102;c-16614281" wrote:

"Sk8rblaze;c-16612584" wrote:

"JoAnne65;c-16609163" wrote:

"Sk8rblaze;c-16608897" wrote:
It’s because it lacks design as an actual game.

The Sims was always a game (especially the first one) where you had to be very particular in how you strategized playing. Planning, budgeting, and the possibility of something randomly going wrong were constantly on your mind. It was truly designed as a strategic life simulation.

Now, it’s too focused on aesthetic. The developers literally call new objects that ONLY have new animations tied to them as new gameplay. How is gameplay watching my Sim do something that has little effect on the game itself?

Additionally, the systems in the game, such as collecting and gardening, feel useless because the designers seemingly don’t know how to make them interesting, fun, and relevant.

In another life simulation game, called Animal Crossing, collecting is one of the core parts of its gameplay. You donate whatever you collect to the museum or you can sell it for money, however, a completed section of the museum grants a very special golden version of the tool you used for collection (e.g golden net for bugs). In Stardew Valley, crafting is a core element of the game. And unlike The Sims 4, crafting in Stardew Valley actually has a purpose; crafting better gardening tools for instance makes gardening faster.

In The Sims 4, the design of things like collecting and such are so incredibly weak. Tell me why would I want to collect My Sims figurines or snow globes over and over in The Sims??? Why would I want to bother spending time collecting bugs when time flow in this game is so limiting, and my Sim would make more of a profit doing other things? Mind you — it goes further than this. I haven’t even delved into how poorly designed emotions, traits, whims, aspirations, etc. are.

This is what happens when you hire a base game producer that primarily designed Facebook games and not PC simulation or RPG games.

Ex. Act. Ly. I've been strictly a simmer for years, but currently I'm playing Animal Crossing and exactly what you say has crossed my mind. How come (and I'm in fact also looking at Sims 3 in that respect) I find things like collecting and fishing so addictive in AC and a bore in Sims. It's because in AC they found the perfect balance between making it rewarding (it's fun to walk through your museum and watch everything you collected over time and it's great to catch bugs/fish you know will make a lot of money), being not too hard and not too easy (I'm not ashamed of the trademark casual player, I am and proud/quite satisfied to be) and on top of that they added gameplay to the collecting/fishing itself. The action. Catching bugs or fish isn't based on luck, it's totally up to the player. Same with growing flowers and digging weeds. The way they've done it would perfectly fit and be fun in a Sims game.

Yup, I agree entirely. In that game, you have a really good balance of customization, while also having these elements which make it an actual game. For what some people describe as such a laid back experience, I honestly feel like Animal Crossing provides more challenge than The Sims 4. Making money isn't insanely easy, and actually requires me to perfect the various ways of collecting things in the world (fish, bugs, diving, etc.). To put it short, every kind of feature the game possesses just flows nicely with one another, and the core of the game itself.

In The Sims 4, it feels like everything is all over the place, if that makes sense. Features in the game do not work well with one another, or well at all. The various skills in the game should rely more on one another (such as gardening and cooking), and features like traits and emotions feel as if they should matter more. Generational gameplay was an afterthought -- we had no family trees at launch, and we still have no way to pass down our Sims' wealth. Sim personality isn't at all dictated by our Sims' parents, either. Skills feel repetitive after maxing them on one Sim once. Aspirations are grindy and repetitive. Careers have improved, but the GTW careers were absolutely horrid for a 40 dollar pack -- the idea of having the game control how I play was horrible. I'm all over the place, but I feel like at every corner, there is a problem with a feature in this game in some form.

I personally feel The Sims 2 is hailed as the pinnacle of the franchise thus far because the developers understood replayability is crucial with this game. They designed it with the mindset people are going to be playing generations of Sims (many, many hours), and they made sure to include features that make playing the game and doing the same things repeatedly fun and exciting. We didn't have the ridiculous festivals of The Sims 4 which are insanely useless after the first time looking around in them. TS2 rewards playing big families, and more Sims, while also hitting us with a good amount of challenge in taking care of all of them. In fact, the addition of the random risks and challenging content make the game way more fun to play repeatedly.

Then you have The Sims 3, which, as you know, is just filled to the brim with a massive amount of features, and huge open worlds to offer unique gameplay and lots of customization, as we can control/customize every little part of these worlds ourselves. It really feels The Sims 4 contributed the least to the progression of the franchise.

Also, semi-unrelated, whenever I boot up TS4, there is always some kind of strange glitch I cannot avoid. It's insane, because I've never played a Sims game where bugs were so blatantly in my face at every turn. For instance, I loaded the game up and I had trees in winter mode, when it was a heat wave in summer. I had to reboot it to fix it. (Can we also talk about how poorly designed that public area is, with a skate rink plopped right on the sidewalk? Really?)

https://i.imgur.com/aV6VpNY.jpg

I love reading comments like that, and I really hope they are reading here to go in the right way. And I hope all the amazing feedbacks that we gave to them since the launch of TS4 will help them to make TS5 better. But the question is, are they enough smart to finally realize that the gameplay is more important than the look of the game or will they continue to give us poor games? In any case, I know that if they make this Franchise go in the right way, they could recover a lot of fans. But I don't think they are enough ambitious...

TBH If they make a Sims 5 I'm not buying it. After all the feedback they got from TS3 and TS4 turned out the way it did... Yea I'm good... I can easily say I'm done with this company after what they've done and continue to do with this iteration.

I will continue to try and make the best of what expenses I've spent thus far on this iteration, but I can surely say I will NOT support future iterations made by this company.

"Evil_One;c-16608104" wrote:
It's boring because there's no drama, no challenge, no difficulty... Each sim plays the same, is almost never in any real danger, is always successful, never fails at something even if unskilled.

It's like Minecraft creative mode, fun to build in, but it's certainly not challenging.

This is it pretty much.

4 years in they haven't added any new gameplay features that affect sim's personalities and since what we got in the BG is too light, it just becomes frustrating.

Watching sims in TS4 closely, I notice they all do the same scripted things for the most part.

> @Sk8rblaze said:
> It’s because it lacks design as an actual game.
>

> Additionally, the systems in the game, such as collecting and gardening, feel useless because the designers seemingly don’t know how to make them interesting, fun, and relevant.
>
> In another life simulation game, called Animal Crossing, collecting is one of the core parts of its gameplay. You donate whatever you collect to the museum or you can sell it for money, however, a completed section of the museum grants a very special golden version of the tool you used for collection (e.g golden net for bugs). In Stardew Valley, crafting is a core element of the game. And unlike The Sims 4, crafting in Stardew Valley actually has a purpose; crafting better gardening tools for instance makes gardening faster.
>
> This is what happens when you hire a base game producer that primarily designed Facebook games and not PC simulation or RPG games.

I've not played those other games but as another example of what you are talking about -- take woodworking. I pretty much exclusively do Legacy challenges when I play Sims, so I have 10 generations on a starting huge, empty lot. I had not done woodworking before (I got Sims 4 back when it launched, hated it because of all the things it lacked, and put it down until last month). I thought hey, this would be perfect for a Founder Sim -- she could use woodworking to build all the furniture in the initial house. Naturally I assumed after getting end tables, bar stools, dining chairs, dining tables... I would progress to things like coffee tables, sofas, desks, dressers, maybe even beds. Nope. Instead they had me crafting -- wooden toilets?? Wooden bath tubs? I mean -- what??

I can't tell you how disappointed I was in this. Had I known how limited this was, I would never have chosen it for the founder. It made her a lot of good money (tubs often sell for a couple thou each), but what a shame. I mean, there are hundreds of pieces of wooden furniture in the game. Why not let me craft more of them? There is no good programming reason for this, since you just do the builder animation and then pop the item into the inventory. And in terms of it being "cheating" they could easily make it cost as much to make as to buy, and then it's just a matter of preference. I don't even care about selling products and making money - that was not my goal. I just wanted to make stuff to put into the house for 10 generations and the great-great-great grandkids could be living in a house furnished by the first gen founder. It'd be like me living in a house with furniture made by George Washington. But... nope.

And this is just one feature but I think it is symptomatic of a great deal of Sims 4 gameplay -- much of it feels thrown together and half-baked. Babies are just furniture with needs. Toddlers didn't even exist originally. We have fishing but we can't have fish tanks (?) and keep our fish as pets. Heck there even *is* a fish tank (My First Pet Stuff Pack) but you can't stock it with your caught fish. Gardening was dumbed down (IMO) compared to Sims 3, in which it took real work to get that perfect Legacy garden.

That said, I have not been bored -- I think doing Legacy challenges skews my perspective, since that thing requires a massive spreadsheet, adherence to some very strict rules, and starting from nothing, so I can't just "do whatever I want" with my Sims. Heck when I play Legacies once the Founder is married and has a kid, my Sims almost never leave the lot because of all the goals I am working like crazy to accomplish with each generation. (I thought I was alone with this but watching Mystic's playthrough of her current Legacy on YouTube, she's worse than I am, LOL.) The Legacy playstyle, I think, papers over some of the more repetitive aspects of the game, buffering me from them. If I played in rotation I'd probably be much more unhappy.