The I'm Bored Thread

"Cinebar;c-17260013" wrote:

"SimsLovinLycan;c-17259743" wrote:

"Simburian;c-17259129" wrote:
Considering that the 13 year old girl target was the aim from the start as famously reported here. I'm surprised that older Simmers didn't leave them to it but they still appear to be here! :) If it doesn't bore the 13 year olds yet, who are we to criticise. It wasn't meant for us was it?

(Pokemon can be downright dangerous for children from what I read in the newspapers, leading them to some very strange places. :o ) At least Sims 4 doesn't lead to an actual nude beach or brothel.

That's all from Pokemon GO, the mobile spin-off. They have had a lot of problems with that one because of decisions the developer, Niantic, made about how pokemon spawn. The main handheld and console games are about as safe as a Ming vase wrapped 45 feet thick in high-grade bubble wrap. The biggest risk they've taken in years is not having the National Dex in Gen8...

"Felicity;c-17259187" wrote:
In the 1990s, game devs realized with Mario that there is a huge market that they were ignoring -- teenage girls. The problem is that they didn't talk to teenage girls so many games were made by men who thought they knew what teenage girls would like, leading to a bunch of garbage games that no one wanted. Which had devs then saying, yet again, that teenage girls didn't like video games.

One thing I think all devs miss is that girls and women play video games. We have always played video games. You don't need to have games aimed at us (as that aim often just misses) but instead just make good video games that include us. A sims that appeals to everyone will just be a better game than one that attempts to go after a very narrow market.

Sims did not start out as a game aimed at girls. I think devs realized that girls did like the game so decided to focus content for teenage girls, which isn't a bad thing until they decided that's the only audience they're focusing on. I know a lot of men and teenage boys who play the Sims, though fewer play Sims 4. A lot of older women play, and I'm in that category. Sims has a massive audience, and making the best game possible as far as life simulation goes -- all aspects of life, not just a small part -- makes for a richer gaming experience. And everyone -- including teenage girls -- likes rich gaming experiences.

Edit: Can you imagine if Nintendo realized that girls like Mario, and made fundamental changes to the structure of the game based on, "well, girls should like this!" rather than just sticking with the formula that made everyone like it? It would have ended up fading away.

This is post nails EXACTLY why games deliberately aimed at young girls are always so bland. Most people running game companies and making games are grown men who had mostly male social circles during their elementary through high school years (because our society doesn't encourage kids to play in mixed-gender groups nearly as much as we should), have been taught since before they could talk that girls = soft and fragile and squeamish, and who never have had an honest conversation with a woman about her tastes and opinions where they actually listened to a single word out of her mouth because society tells men that women are this homogeneous group of oversensitive, braindead carebears who don't like anything cool and if you've heard one woman talk, you've heard 'em all. So, when making games for girls, what do they do? They rely on the old stereotypes that have been drilled into their heads since they were infants instead of actually talking and listening to their target audience, and they end up making shovelware trash as a result. And let's not even get into how even female game developers can easily fall into the same hole because they themselves have internalized the very same stereotypes, even though they know them to be biased generalizations based on their own personal experiences, because they've been hammered with them so much themselves that they just rely on them without even thinking, just like the guys.

Something about that quote from Drake also really unsettled me. Drake said, "...but we can’t always talk to teenage girls, so we talk to the people who talk to them." So, they're not actually forming focus groups of teenaged girls from diverse backgrounds and with varying personalities and tastes to talk to about what they want and don't want, like and don't like, in video games...they're mainly getting second-hand accounts from adults who "talk to" teen girls--so, therapist, school counselors, parents, etc.--whose accounts no doubt are colored by their own biases, preconceptions, and misconceptions about both teens in general, girls in general, and teen girls in particular, therefore making those accounts much less reliable than ACTUALLY HAVING A CONVERSATION WITH THE GIRLS AND LISTENING TO WHAT THEY HAVE TO SAY!! Oh, no, with girls, second-hand sources who CLAIM to know what's going on in our dizzy little fluff heads are more than good enough!!

Would they say that about the dudes who play GTA? "Well, we can't always talk to teen boys and young men, so we talk to the people who talk to them." No. They get their info direct from their target demographic, period. No second-hand accounts from teachers or therapists or parents or wives/mothers/sisters/girlfriends/homegirls. No. But somehow they think they can get away with that with girls. Like girls and women aren't important enough to actually be asked for our first-hand input!! That's how we ended up with those plum Barbie games where Barbie was useless and helpless and died in, like, one hit, and controlled like absolute garbage. It's almost like they think female players don't want a game, just a slightly interactive screensaver. It's freaking insulting.

But TS4 is not considered bland by teenage girls. (Most) maybe a few here and there on other sites. This game is not run by 'men' it's been in the hands of women for many decades. Lucy Bradshaw, Rachel Franklin, Lyndsay (sorry I misplaced her name). Lucy Bradshaw was over The Sims since TS2. She becoming GM after Ron Humble in TS3. Rachel Franklin was over Maxis in 2014, and now Lyndsay since she left. The game hasn't been 'run by men' per se since Will Wright left and Lucy took over, in 2004 after TS2 base was done, and now those positions (top of Maxis and The Sims) women have held those spots since mid TS3 era and Lucy even longer, when Ron no longer over saw Maxis.

Women have been the CMs (marketing) too of TS4 since it's launch after that Charlie guy, so it isn't all men who are making all the decisions or marketing or green lighting projects it's been the women who held the higher positions for many decades. And it's not been 'men' who have said the target was teens on instagram but a woman. ( I assume Drake and Kate identify as women, my apology if they don't)> Lead Producers don't go rogue as Lyndsay joked about Grant, they have to present their ideas to her, and or someone such as the Creative Director but it is still Lyndsay or before her Rachel and before her Lucy, who green light anything.

ETA: And edited to add, if I'm bored and unhappy with the franchise I can't actually blame a developer (the person who is actually working on animations, programming and or interactions or objects) it's the GM, and the Creative Director that decides what is in and what is out and what is not in the 'spirit of the game.' So, looking at TS4 as an example. Lucy B was GM, Rachel was over TS4 specifically, and Lyndsay was the creative director. Now, Lucy gone, and Rachel gone and Lyndsay sits as GM and I'm no longer sure the name of the Creative Director for TS4 since there have been quite a few since the launch of TS4. So, any bugs, any problems, any boredom or any 'direction or focus' falls on Lyndsay, and it isn't men making the decissions as some of these posts here would like to imply and or try to blame, a lead producer can only do what the GM will allow. Or what the Creative Director (2nd in command) will agree about and talk to Lyndsay about as a project or all agree in a meeting. It's never one person, but the buck has always stopped with the GM. So, if I'm unhappy with the new focus of the franchise it's not because a so called group of men called all the shots, but the GMs. (no matter if male or female but been females for many years and not males as you have implied).

I think you forgot the part where I talked about women who fall into the same hole as the men when it comes to how they think about people of their own gender because of the stereotypes society drills into them about girls, women, and femininity. Also, you have to remember that the people who really get the last call aren't GMs or Creative Directors, but the executives and marketing teams on high. If they say, "Eh, teenaged girls just want a game that's all style and no substance, cut this, and this, and this, and this," then, yeah, the developers have to do what their bosses say. Most of the folks in those boardrooms? Men.

Again, just because there is technically a woman at the head of the project does not mean that sexist views and assumptions about what girls like and want out of a game do not make an impact on the final product. Societal stereotypes about who and what girls are, internalized sexism (yeah, that's a thing), the tendency to dismiss the opinions and feelings of women and girls in general in favor of masculine interpretations of them, and the tendency to view females as a homogeneous whole based on a small sampling of socially prominent women and girls who best display society's already established ideas about femininity all play a role in basically ruining games that are aimed at girls and turning them into sickly-sweet, pink, sparkly disasters.

They don't recognize the diversity of personalities and interests of REAL girls. Case in point, my teenaged self. I hated the teen dramas on T.V., because they were shallow, mindless, and full of people acting like idiots all the time. I liked Gilmore Girls because I related to the geeky, off-beat Rory, with her focus on academics and her close relationship with her mother, and absolutely could not watch the show anymore when they jumped the shark by having her get with her now-married ex-boyfriend, because they broke the character that episode, they ruined her, they ruined the entire show because from then on Rory was just like all the other girls in all the other shows, she wasn't relatable anymore. I loved fantasy and sci-fi novels (not just the YA ones, but stuff by authors like Andre Norton and Larry Niven), and dove head-first into the core mythology and folklore behind werewolves. I loved action movies, martial arts flicks, and shonen anime (I had the biggest crush on Gene Starwind from Outlaw Star), The Matrix was my favorite live action flick, and Lina Inverse from The Slayers was basically my spirit animal. I played a ton of JRPG's and fighting games, and you could not tell me that Streets of Rage for the Sega Genesis/Megadrive was NOT the greatest co-op game ever made. Would I have gotten bored with TS4 as a teen like I do now? Yeah, I would have. I would have gotten annoyed with the bad AI, the watery-thin content, the shallow gameplay...with the game's only saving graces being CAS, Build Mode, and the progression system for Vampires. Teen me would be just as appalled and have the exact same things to say about the state of this game and female-aimed games in general because teen me was just as concerned with the way that society just plain ignores teen girls like my teenaged self, preferring to point to the pumps, celebrity gossip, and lipstick crowd and say, "That's what teen girls are, that's what teen girls want, and that's the end."

That's why I'm so upset about Drake's comment in that interview. If you're not talking to teen girls, all KINDS of teen girls from all kinds of backgrounds and with all kinds of personalities and interests, then you're only getting the surface bubbles from the chili pot.