Reading some threads and other Simmers posting what is said (text) about the Sim such as she/he just go a promotion etc. or anything like that, but not at all about the following subject, why did Maxis not make an announcement in patch notes or other areas of the forum that the pronouns are changed in TS4? No longer does the game say he/she but used the pronouns like They and Them. There was a thread once about wanting all these pronouns to be changed in the game if there were any popups etc. Interesting to see Maxis developers went ahead and made these changes without any mention of this as if this is everyday speech of the masses without ever mentioning it to the public let alone the players who already have the game. Dear Maxis, in some circles you would be commended for these changes. However, you owed it to the public and the players who buy your products you were going to change the grammar of the game to exclude He/She pronouns and change all that to They/Them.This is not everyday speech of the masses. We all know it isn't. Let's not pretend it is. I struggle with my grammar as it is since I have some cognitive problems and I lose my words and thought to even write a proper sentence sometimes. Let alone call a single Sim a plural pronoun. I don't want to have the argument if this is proper or not, only that people should have been informed.I don't want to be a negative Nancy, but Maxis if you are going to do these things they should at least be in the patch notes. Parents and Players have a right to know, don't they? Especially those parents who buy your products for their kids and want them to be known as He or She. To expand on my thought about this, are there toggles to allow the game to decide if the text of a popup uses He/She/They/Them? No? I'm very disappointed in Maxis did Not inform those who respect the he/she populations nor inform players or parents they and them would replace those pronouns.Are these changes only if someone uses the gender patch? How does this work? Any announcements gender patch was updated to do this? I'm disappointed people were not informed at all. ???

I haven't seen any threads about this. Can you provide a link to them?Searching the web I found an article about a petition requesting new pronouns.The Sims 4 fans petition for pronoun options to be added.The campaign has more than 2,000 signatures so far.https://www.digitalspy.com/tech/a35950846/sims-4-pronouns-petition/

I have noticed it in some notifications. There are still some (older) strings that haven't been changed.

This concerns the new trait system. Here if you scroll down you can see the pronouns have changed when the Sim got a notice about a new trait perk etc. The previous notice about the Sim's job used he, the new trait notice says They. Scroll down to the picture showing what happens with a new trait system etc. It wasn't about pronouns but new traits...I just happened to notice the change. I didn't want to derail that thread with my questions and opinions.https://forums.thesims.com/en_US/discussion/988174/lets-find-those-trait-improvements#latest ETA: I read the petition linked by Simgirl, however, even if a player picks male or female frames for their Sim, the player and a parent has right to know of these changes in any new packs and or the player should have the option even if a female frame for their Sim if the popup text calls that Sim a he or she or they. Maxis has failed to provide fairness across the board here. I don't know if the Sim pictured who rec'd the new notice about a new trait action/perk etc. was a female frame or not picked in CAS, but that isn't the point, the point is Maxis should inform the public of any major changes so parents can decide what to buy and what not to buy. Players should be able to see their Sim as a he or she in the body of a text, and Maxis has failed to address these requests in a sensical manner that would be acceptable to all. ETA: And Maxis there are plenty of trans that want to be called he or she, no matter what frame they pick (if due to gender patch) who want to be called he or she and not they or them. This doesn't please a lot of folks with a blanket change without notice.

"logion;c-17846419" wrote:I haven't heard anything about this, I know it is a feature that some people really want. I got a user recommended on twitter (twitter does that if you follow specific topics, in this case, the sims) that seems to post every day where they ask about pronoun changes in the sims.There was a huge thread here months ago, It is possibly closed or deleted, as some would not listen to those who wanted to keep he and she, too and a lot of arguing by the end of it.

Why Wasn't There A Mention About This? Pronoun Changes?

Cinebar
4 years ago
"lisamwitt;c-17846454" wrote:
I noticed this in game a couple weeks ago. I figured they just wanted to not make a big deal out of it. For two weeks I didn't see a peep about it, so I'm guessing most people reacted the way I did... "Hmm. Interesting." Then I went back to playing. And I'm sure that's what they were hoping for.

I assumed that trying to get the game to always correctly identify he or she or them individually would be a lot of extra coding and text, so they just wouldn't bother. Maybe it would be something they would bring into another game from the beginning.
So I'm not surprised at all that, since they decided to do it, they just went with they/them across the board. It's simpler. Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I'm surprised that Sims wasn't gender neutral from day one 21 years ago, because it is simpler. Sims don't speak any human languages, so I think players would have just accepted it as it was had it always been that way.

Have you noticed it's across the board? Does these changes appear in the base game texts etc.? Or any EP pack texts etc.? I mean are they phasing out he and she from the game and actually changing base game text\ popups? Just a thought, but how does inclusive mean exclusive?
Deafsimmer
4 years ago
The last thread about this topic didn't end well. I have a feeling this might meet the same fate. Anyways, I don't think I've noticed any pronoun changes in my game. Perhaps because I barely look at the notifications while I take screenshots for my Simlit.
Hermitgirl
New Spectator
4 years ago
I'm playing right now and so far not seeing it... although I possibly haven't run across it yet despite seeing numerous drop downs in regards to school and work for just a half a sim day of play. I'm still seeing him, her, he and she ect... (I'm playing a male and female teen sim going to school and a male adult sim that just took an astronaut position). It might be that I haven't run into areas that have been changed or other for other reasons I'm not seeing it. Like does the game know if you have changed your sim in a way to indicate your sim is more gender fluid? Again I don't know.. I'm not currently playing any sims like that and don't want to put in the effort to check out all the possibilities.

I will say about the subject in general though that I can imagine if that's how you see yourself in the game it might be hard to see yourself labeled as a "he" or "she" if you don't identify with that. So if they are or were implementing these types of changes it wouldn't bother me.

Adding... after looking at the numerous moodlets with all three sims while my game was paused I did see one they.. it was about being happy to be on their home turf when "they're in their neighborhood" the rest either were more blanket statements or said he or she type of words.
From the recent gameplay kit I have a moodlet that says inspired by his sparkling clean surroundings ect.. So this makes me doubt that it's some secretive assimilation "trick" being played on us. Hehe... "sim", get it?
Cinebar
4 years ago
"Hermitgirl;c-17846494" wrote:
I'm playing right now and so far not seeing it... although I possibly haven't run across it yet despite seeing numerous drop downs in regards to school and work for just a half a sim day of play. I'm still seeing him, her, he and she ect... (I'm playing a male and female teen sim going to school and a male adult sim that just took an astronaut position). It might be that I haven't run into areas that have been changed or other for other reasons I'm not seeing it. Like does the game know if you have changed your sim in a way to indicate your sim is more gender fluid? Again I don't know.. I'm not currently playing any sims like that and don't want to put in the effort to check out all the possibilities.

I will say about the subject in general though that I can imagine if that's how you see yourself in the game it might be hard to see yourself labeled as a "he" or "she" if you don't identify with that. So if they are or were implementing these types of changes it wouldn't bother me.

Adding... after looking at the numerous moodlets with all three sims while my game was paused I did see one they.. it was about being happy to be on their home turf when "they're in their neighborhood" the rest either were more blanket statements or said he or she type of words.
From the recent gameplay kit I have a moodlet that says inspired by his sparkling clean surroundings ect.. So this makes me doubt that it's some secretive assimilation "trick" being played on us. Hehe... "sim", get it? I kill myself.

Isn't that message about being on their own home turf a base game text? I seem to recall that several years ago, or maybe it was one of the EPs. I can't remember but I think it was he and or she before. I'm not saying they are trying to secretive assimilation trick but want to know why players and parents aren't informed of any pronoun changes. It would be a horrible shame if he and she are completely removed, in order to be 'inclusive' for others who don't identify as either.
Cinebar
4 years ago
"DeafSimmer;c-17846465" wrote:
The last thread about this topic didn't end well. I have a feeling this might meet the same fate. Anyways, I don't think I've noticed any pronoun changes in my game. Perhaps because I barely look at the notifications while I take screenshots for my Simlit.

I hope the thread is not closed or removed. I know the EULA for these Sim games say they can do whatever they want, sold as is, whatever, and can change whatever they want about a game and people have to accept that, however, this is not a minor issue or cause, or something as simple as patching out a trait or an interaction or action. There are a great deal of organizations who lobby for changes but what can be done to keep he and she for those of us who want to leave in he and she? And want notices of any thing changed in the games before we spend anymore money. I just think some changes should be known to parents and the public of this magnitude. It's no small deal.
Hermitgirl
New Spectator
4 years ago
@Cinebar Well I started this sim off with a location aspiration from Snowy Escape, but I don't know if that moodlet is newish or not. City Living added locations I think? Either way there are lots and lots of he and she words currently that I'm still seeing.
Cinebar
4 years ago
"Hermitgirl;c-17846510" wrote:
@Cinebar Well I started this sim off with a location aspiration from Snowy Escape, but I don't know if that moodlet is newish or not. City Living added locations I think? Either way there are lots and lots of he and she words currently that I'm still seeing.

Thank you, I hope he and she, or mom and dad, uncle and aunt etc. are not phased out, too, as the game proceeds.
LadyGray01
Seasoned Hotshot
4 years ago
"Cinebar;c-17846508" wrote:
"DeafSimmer;c-17846465" wrote:
The last thread about this topic didn't end well. I have a feeling this might meet the same fate. Anyways, I don't think I've noticed any pronoun changes in my game. Perhaps because I barely look at the notifications while I take screenshots for my Simlit.

I hope the thread is not closed or removed. I know the EULA for these Sim games say they can do whatever they want, sold as is, whatever, and can change whatever they want about a game and people have to accept that, however, this is not a minor issue or cause, or something as simple as patching out a trait or an interaction or action. There are a great deal of organizations who lobby for changes and what can be done to keep he and she for those of us who want to leave in he and she? And want notices of any thing changed in the games before we spend anymore money. I just think some changes should be known to parents and the public of this magnitude. It's no small deal.

I'm sorry but... does the way the popups are worded affect how you are referred to in real life?

I know some people who identify as they/them in real life and it has in no way affected my still being she/her. Because that's how I identify. I've never been able to get my head around this argument. It's like if someone else named Lisa decided they didn't want to go by that name anymore and I claimed that meant they were keeping me from using the name.

All that said, I stick by my first analysis of why they did it. People were asking for the option, and this was simpler then recoding the entire game to include a mechanic that didn't exist.

And finally, they/them is gender neutral and therefore all inclusive by its very nature. It doesn't exclude anyone. That's why you can say things like "Are they going to call me? Maybe I should call them." and be referring to anyone.

I'm not going to say anything else.
Cinebar
4 years ago
"lisamwitt;c-17846518" wrote:
"Cinebar;c-17846508" wrote:
"DeafSimmer;c-17846465" wrote:
The last thread about this topic didn't end well. I have a feeling this might meet the same fate. Anyways, I don't think I've noticed any pronoun changes in my game. Perhaps because I barely look at the notifications while I take screenshots for my Simlit.

I hope the thread is not closed or removed. I know the EULA for these Sim games say they can do whatever they want, sold as is, whatever, and can change whatever they want about a game and people have to accept that, however, this is not a minor issue or cause, or something as simple as patching out a trait or an interaction or action. There are a great deal of organizations who lobby for changes and what can be done to keep he and she for those of us who want to leave in he and she? And want notices of any thing changed in the games before we spend anymore money. I just think some changes should be known to parents and the public of this magnitude. It's no small deal.

I'm sorry but... does the way the popups are worded affect how you are referred to in real life?

I know some people who identify as they/them in real life and it has in no way affected my still being she/her. Because that's how I identify. I've never been able to get my head around this argument. It's like if someone else named Lisa decided they didn't want to go by that name anymore and I claimed that meant they were keeping me from using the name.

All that said, I stick by my first analysis of why they did it. People were asking for the option, and this was simpler then recoding the entire game to include a mechanic that didn't exist.

And finally, they/them is gender neutral and therefore all inclusive by its very nature. It doesn't exclude anyone. That's why you can say things like "Are they going to call me? Maybe I should call them." and be referring to anyone.

I'm not going to say anything else.

It certainly affects others who made the requests to remove he and she and replace with they or them etc. The changes are an influence to the greater populations to no longer call anyone he and she but to replace with they or them. I'm sorry I can't conform to that and won't. Actually, I can't actually apologize for seeing inclusion becoming nothing more than excluded. Individual matters to me a great deal. Whether that be wanting to be called he or she or they, but not a blanket they or them. There is an old saying 'you lose your language, you lose yourself.'
TheGreatGorlon
4 years ago
I kinda think you all are blowing this way out of proportion, and I don't even think that this was done to be "woke" or anything like that. When the text pop-ups have to reference a Sim's specific pronouns, it has to be coded to read their sex/gender so it can use the proper pronouns. When it uses something like "they/them," it doesn't have to be coded to reference anything at all, since those are universal pronouns. So from a technological standpoint, it's much faster and way easier to implement moodlets and pop-ups without that extra step of coding. Using pronouns they/them is a way of cutting corners when it comes to this sort of thing, which is totally something I could see the team doing to save some effort. I would imagine this is the reason why most stuff is using "they/them" and less of some sort of "woke" effort to scrub gender pronouns of the game.