I'm probably going to need @SimGuruModSquad for this one :smile:I have a few questions about the correspondence between SimData files and XML tuning. First of all, let's take a look at the trait_Novelist trait from the novelist package that was in the docs. I've figured out that the enumeration for Ages is defined in the Python that was provided, but I'm not sure where the values for tags (column 11) come from, particularly because the field refers to a dynamic tag in the tdesc file (and python code).Second, it seems that you have multiple objects packed into one table: table has both tags and ages stored in it, and table has two different strings. Am I understanding the file format correctly?Third, could you clarify how the game turns SimData files into objects (in the CS sense) that appear in the game? Based on the first version of the novelist example (with just two simdata resources and two XML files), the trait is found by scanning the package files. However, the only thing I can find that indicates that there is a trait resource is the fact that the SimData file has a schema named "Trait". Would it be valid for a SimData file to have two traits stored in it, and if so, what would the game do with such a resource?Third, in order to make sense of the simdata file, it looks like I'll need data files derived from the python archives from the game. Would it be allowed to distribute works derived from the python files and TDesc files? (I need the tuning descriptions from the tdescs and the enumerations from Python).Thanks!

The tags can be found in the following two resources: S4_545AC67A_006CA304_DDE418AFF7A9D9ADS4_545AC67A_006CA304_D89CB9186B79ACB7Table includes all object of type 0x00000008, but like all tables that don't have a structure position set, it's only a container. In this case, the ages field of the main struct is a list with seven elements starting at the position of the first element in the table. So the first 7 elements in table belong to that first list (ages), while the other two belong to the tags array.Same goes for table. It's a container for all strings used elsewhere (in this case only the null for cas_idle_asm_state and the None for cas_trait_asm_param).(I haven't actually looked too deeply into the simdata info in the bt file so far, so this is from my own observations while I was writing my tool.)

Oh lol got my ams and pms mixed up. Sorry

I think the combined tuning is 0x62E94D38-0x00000000-0xF1352E740C4710BA. At least it does have many tunings including the tag one mentioned. (And I didn't see 0333406c:00000000:6e036824229d66d8 in SimulationFullBuild0.package either, checking with S4PE.)The S4_{type}_{group}_{instance}.{extension} naming convention is simply what S4PE uses to export files, and if you stick with this convention, you can easily import files as a resource and it will have the correct type/group/instance. {group}!{type}.{instance} makes sense for the way it works now, but as far as I know Sims 3 didn't allow this or we simply didn't know about it. I'm not sure if we knew about this convention before SGModSquad posted the info about the workaround, so it could be tool makers simply haven't adjusted yet. (And there are disadvantages to it, like not being able to use your normal file extensions.)

The S4_* format was based on the s3_* format which was actually strongly recommended by Wes, who was along with Numenor one of the TS2 community leaders. I guess by now it's just a case of sticking to a protocol cos it's always less confusing and more cohesive for all concerned than keep rethinking it.

Thanks for the info @gibbed. I'm not sure I'll mod for Sims 3 again (or Sims Medieval for that matter), but it might come in handy if I do.@Shimrod101, I looked at the files you mentioned. They're not XML files (did you use a specific wrapper?) They seem to include other data along with the text bits. It's certainly worth looking at, so thanks for pointing this out. Btw, there are bc_pickle_cache files as well with type 0x1C99B344. Right now there's still so much information to explore...@thequux2, I probably shouldn't have said "simply what S4PE uses", giving the impression of randomness. I wasn't even aware of the history of the filename format specifically (thanks, @IngeJones). But I know that S3PE was widely used and well-maintained through all the years and the s3pi libraries allowed other modders (including myself) easy access to package/resource handling. We'll see which tools TS4 modders create, but I'm confident that filename formats will not be an issue since end users will most likely deal with packages (and zips) and modders will either use tools that fit their workflow or simply rename files as needed. I think it's great to see so many people working on different tools for the game. I haven't looked more closely at the python code so far. I haven't done much with python before, so this might be my chance to get into it.

Questions about simdata format | EA Forums

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velocitygrass
11 years ago
The tags can be found in the following two resources: S4_545AC67A_006CA304_DDE418AFF7A9D9AD
S4_545AC67A_006CA304_D89CB9186B79ACB7

Table includes all object of type 0x00000008, but like all tables that don't have a structure position set, it's only a container. In this case, the ages field of the main struct is a list with seven elements starting at the position of the first element in the table. So the first 7 elements in table belong to that first list (ages), while the other two belong to the tags array.

Same goes for table. It's a container for all strings used elsewhere (in this case only the null for cas_idle_asm_state and the None for cas_trait_asm_param).

(I haven't actually looked too deeply into the simdata info in the bt file so far, so this is from my own observations while I was writing my tool.)
thequux
11 years ago
Awesome! That pretty much squares with what I had imagined, though it's good to know about the tag resources.

Also, are there any docs on the filename format that the modding community tends to use? Is it just S4_{type}_{group}_{instance}, in all caps in hex, or is there more to it than is immediately apparent? So far I've just been using the "{group}!{type}.{instance}" format that the game engine seems to use internally (so you can use an unpacked package just the same as a packed one)
SimGuruModSquad
11 years ago
Hi guys,

In order to get the values of dynamic enums (as well as to override existing tuning XML files) you need to decode the combined tuning resource (0333406c:00000000:6e036824229d66d8 in SimulationFullBuild0.package). Dynamic enums have two components; a fixed set of values defined in Python (and reflected in the tdesc file), and a dynamic list which are stored as tunable lists of strings. As an example, tags are defined by Tuning/tags.tdesc. The tags.Tag enum type has one fixed value (INVALID = 0) and a dynamic list stored under tag.Tag._elements.

The combined tuning file makes heavy use of references, and you will need to expand these references in order to fully reconstruct the original tuning. However, the tag list is fairly simple to decode. You can find the root of the "tag" module tuning by searching for this element:
Inside that is the Tag class tuning, which starts with:
Inside this is a list of elements:
The tag enum values follow inside ... pairs.

To answer your next question, each simdata resource corresponds to a single tunable object, but the format supports multiple tables with multiple rows each. The reason for this is that XML is hierarchical but simdata is tabular. The simdata format represents nested data using references to rows in sub-tables. While it would be technically possible to put data for two traits into one simdata resource, the game would not be able to do anything with this since the simdata resource for a particular trait is looked up by resource key.

Hope that helps, thanks!
thequux
11 years ago
Thanks! I'm having some difficulty finding the combined tuning resource (my tools can't find anything with a type of 0x0333406c), but if I have a mostly-functional simdata parser, I can use the binary version that @velocitygrass mentioned. Does that have all the same data as the combined tuning resource?

Finally, what are the rules on redistributing the TuningDescriptions.zip file and derivative works (such as the XML in a faster-to-load Protobuf format)?
IngeJones
11 years ago
In case the thread didn't bump when SGModSquad edited his post, he edited it after you posted yours, thequux2
thequux
11 years ago
Actually, he edited it about 12 hours (less 17 minutes) earlier, and didn't cover the question about redistribution.
IngeJones
11 years ago
Oh lol got my ams and pms mixed up. Sorry
velocitygrass
11 years ago
I think the combined tuning is 0x62E94D38-0x00000000-0xF1352E740C4710BA. At least it does have many tunings including the tag one mentioned. (And I didn't see 0333406c:00000000:6e036824229d66d8 in SimulationFullBuild0.package either, checking with S4PE.)

The S4_{type}_{group}_{instance}.{extension} naming convention is simply what S4PE uses to export files, and if you stick with this convention, you can easily import files as a resource and it will have the correct type/group/instance. {group}!{type}.{instance} makes sense for the way it works now, but as far as I know Sims 3 didn't allow this or we simply didn't know about it. I'm not sure if we knew about this convention before SGModSquad posted the info about the workaround, so it could be tool makers simply haven't adjusted yet. (And there are disadvantages to it, like not being able to use your normal file extensions.)
Eingyi
11 years ago
> @velocitygrass said:
> I think the combined tuning is 0x62E94D38-0x00000000-0xF1352E740C4710BA. At least it does have many tunings including the tag one mentioned. (And I didn't see 0333406c:00000000:6e036824229d66d8 in SimulationFullBuild0.package either, checking with S4PE.)
>
> The S4_{type}_{group}_{instance}.{extension} naming convention is simply what S4PE uses to export files, and if you stick with this convention, you can easily import files as a resource and it will have the correct type/group/instance. {group}!{type}.{instance} makes sense for the way it works now, but as far as I know Sims 3 didn't allow this or we simply didn't know about it. I'm not sure if we knew about this convention before SGModSquad posted the info about the workaround, so it could be tool makers simply haven't adjusted yet. (And there are disadvantages to it, like not being able to use your normal file extensions.)

I'm pretty sure Sims 3 did support it, but I didn't see it until Sims Medieval.
Shimrod101
11 years ago
In the SimulationFullbuild0 file there are also two resources of type 0xE2249422 with the names ac_pickle_cache and ac_pickle_cache_py_unopt, which appear to be XML and ITUN (it this were Sims3) tuning stuff. I think these should be looked at although I don't know how to do anything with them myself, they are Greek to me.