Re: Anyone have suggestions for a laptop to run TS4 on?

@puzzlezaddict  I had no idea about the TPM 2.0 chip. I saw it on the system requirements but skimmed over it since I didn't know what it meant. Thank you for your detailed response!

I went to Best Buy yesterday. I asked an employee if there was an Acer Nitro on display. There wasn't and he said that Acers are not good gaming laptops. He suggested I try a different brand.

I've decided to splurge and go over my budget and consider a more powerful gaming laptop. https://www.costco.com/msi-ge76-raider-gaming-laptop---11th-gen-intel-core-i7-11800h---geforce-rtx-3060---144hz-1080p.product.100763831.html

What are your thoughts on that one? How would TS4 run on it? Ultra settings with no problems? Is it overkill for TS4? How much better than the Acer Nitro is it?

@sims929292  The Best Buy sales rep is either misinformed or making an assumption about what you want that isn't in evidence.  I wouldn't recommend a Nitro to run demanding games because its specs don't go past a certain level.  But it's perfectly capable of running Sims 4 on ultra settings, and in fact the Nitro is in many cases the only good budget option for a gaming laptop.  Better models can often be ~$200 more for essentially the same hardware while only giving a couple percentage points' increase in performance.

Anyway, it's a moot point if you're looking to spend more money.  I think you can do better than the Raider though.  Since we've been talking about Acers, this one has the same graphics card, a processor that's more than fast enough and runs cooler, and is much cheaper.  You wouldn't need the extra storage for Sims 4.

https://www.newegg.com/shale-black-acer-nitro-5-an515-45-r21a-gaming-entertainment/p/N82E16834360085?Item=N82E16834360085

This laptop isn't perfect by any definition: for example, the battery life isn't good and the screen could be better, but the point is that you don't need to spend as much to get the same performance.  But the MSI's screen isn't an improvement, and in-game performance, at least for games like Sims 4, doesn't have much room to improve.

This is an example of a higher-quality laptop that's still cheaper than the MSI.  It runs cooler and quieter than the others and has very good performance in gaming.  It does only come with 8 GB RAM, but you could upgrade that relatively cheaply and still come out ahead.

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1617923-REG/lenovo_82ju006dus_legion_5_ryz7_5800h_8_512.html

To be clear, you don't need to spend this much money on a laptop for Sims 4.  A 1660 ti or 2060 would be a bit of overkill; a 3050 would still be more than fine.  (As an example, here's a high-end laptop with a 3050 ti.)  If you're going to splurge though, you might as well get your money's worth.  And if you don't like the options available now, keep in mind that laptops with 30-series GPUs are still being released, so you might find something better in a week or two.

@puzzlezaddict  Thank you for the recommendations. Now you’ve got me leaning toward the cheaper Acer Nitro again. But the more expensive one you linked to looks pretty good also. Not to mention I’ve had numerous people recommend the Legion. I’m going to do more research. I need the laptop by August so I have less than a month to make my decision.

I’ve been reading what various people have to say on Reddit about different gaming laptops that they own. Basically everyone seems to be constantly checking and monitoring the temperatures of their laptops while they game. One guy was gaming for two weeks and didn’t check his temps the whole time and apparently that was a big mistake. My question is: Do I need to be concerned with this and be checking the temps on my future laptop everyday? Is that just something that all laptop gamers need to do? I haven’t gamed on a laptop for over a decade so I never considered this before.

Also, should I be checking the temps on a desktop computer also? I play TS4 on a Mac and have never checked the temps before.

@sims929292  If your system is stable and doesn't have any overheating issues, it's not strictly necessary to monitor temperatures every time you play, but it's still a good idea.  Just as an example, Origin sometimes uses almost all the CPU resources it can get, for annoying and not always obvious reasons.  So a laptop that runs Sims 4 at ~50% CPU use and stays quite cool might start to overheat if Origin drives the CPU to 100%, and you wouldn't necessarily notice this happening if you didn't look.

However, that doesn't mean you need to constantly check your hardware stats.  You could instead install an app that allows you to set alarms when a certain condition is met, for example the processor going over 90º C or the graphics card over 80.  Then you don't have to pay attention; just run that app alongside your games and let it monitor for you.  Hwinfo is one such tool, and it has the advantage of picking up pretty much everything, but there are other options too if hwinfo isn't your style.

MacOS is very good at throttling performance to protect the hardware, in fact often too aggressive for my taste.  But the point is, you don't need to worry about temps when playing on your Mac: as long as the vents aren't blocked, it should be fine.

@puzzlezaddict Hello again, I decided to go with the MSI Raider that I linked to earlier. I picked that one because I decided I wanted a 17.3” inch screen. Also because when Steam was having its summer sale, I bought some new games. They are more demanding than TS4 and the Acer would barely be able to run them according to their system requirements.

I have a question. I always get a bit nervous when I’m gaming and I hear the laptop’s fans come on. It makes me think the laptop is overheating and is going to end up fried and ruined. I installed Hwinfo as you suggested and learned how to use it. I’ve been checking the temps and so far they have been normal.

I know it’s normal for the fans to be running while gaming. I don’t mind listening to them and I don’t want them to stop, but I want to make sure the laptop isn’t being damaged when they’re on.

If the fans come on, and the temps are normal, then I have nothing to worry about, right? The fans are what’s preventing the laptop from overheating? So I can ignore the fans as long as the temps are normal… the laptop is not overheating and being damaged? Please correct me if I’m wrong about any of that.

Is it typical for someone to have a 5 hour gaming session with the fans running the entire time? It’s safe for the laptop and the fans?

Laptop specs: MSI GE76 Raider, 11th Gen Intel Core i7 11800H, GeForce RTX 3060,16GB memory, 1TB SSD. I bought it about 2 weeks ago.

Thank you again for any help!

@sims929292  It is perfectly normal for the fans to run at high speeds the entire time you're gaming, and in fact I would expect them to do so.  They're designed to handle the load too: this laptop was clearly built with long gaming sessions in mind, and the fans need to be absolutely reliable.  If your CPU and GPU temperatures are normal, the fans are doing their job, your hardware is safe, and you don't need to worry.

If you want to be extra careful, set alarms in hwinfo and let it take care of things.  But really, this laptop is supposed to do all you're asking of it and more, without your needing to intervene.

@puzzlezaddict  Thank you for your quick response. I'm going to be much more relaxed while gaming now. I set alarms in Hwinfo. It will warn me if the temps rise to 80C or above.

While we are on the topic of fans, I have another question. We determined that the fan situation is normal when gaming, but what about when I'm not?

Sometimes the fans come on for seemingly no reason when I'm doing something simple in Firefox like browsing Reddit, or typing in a Word document, or copying and pasting text into an email. They come on everytime that I enter or exit Firefox or Word.

They usually run for about 5 - 10 seconds at a time. The volume of the fans range from gentle hum to moderately loud. They’re usually quiet when doing those things but should I be concerned when they do come on every so often?

One example of a frequent pattern is the fans kick on and run for about 5-10 seconds. Then they shut off for about a minute, then they come back on for 5-10 seconds, then shut off for a minute, and that process repeats itself.

@sims929292  On some days, my laptop fans do the same thing whenever I get a ping in Discord.  I've watched the resources Discord uses, and it's kind of ridiculous, but as far as the fans go, they're responding to a temporary spike in CPU use, which is what they should be doing.  It's normal for the fans to rev up for a few seconds, and it's also unfortunately normal for programs to use more resources, or use them less efficiently, than we might want.

If you're curious, you can watch the values in hwinfo, or even in the Task Manager—I'm guessing you'll see a similar temporary spike at the same time as the fans start making noise.  The issue is the app you're using at the time, not your computer, and the fans are just doing their job.

@puzzlezaddict  Hello, I have a bit of a concern and I'd appreciate your expertise once again. I installed a game from Steam on the laptop yesterday. (I hope I'm allowed to ask about this here because the game was not TS4, it was Planet Coaster). Started the game up and within less than a minute, Hwinfo was letting me know the CPU temps were reaching 80C or above and staying there. This is the first time that that's happened. The highest temp I saw was 94C!

@sims929292  Planet Coaster is definitely more demanding on the processor than Sims 4.  I'd be interested to know the CPU load, as shown in hwinfo on a per-core basis: a laptop processor will run hot when it's maxed out or close to it, although exactly how hot depends on the laptop.  It also depends on the ambient temperature, so yes, a very warm room can have some effect as well.  I've been known to open a bunch of windows at night to get the temps down so I can play CPU-intensive games without thinking about temperatures, but then I live in a place where it's usually no more than about 65º F at night.

Lowering the in-game graphics settings can actually increase the load on the CPU if you don't also cap framerates.  The more frames per second the graphics card is rendering, the more draw calls the processor needs to handle.  So the better question is what happens if you lower the settings and cap fps at the same time, either in the Nvidia Control Panel or within the game if it has the option.  Vertical sync works in fullscreen mode; an explicit framerate cap should work anywhere.

Having said all that, 80º C is not dangerous for a processor or even close.  If you see a temporary spike to >90º but it comes down again, especially if that spike is only on one core at a time, it's also not a problem.  The processor will thermal throttle if necessary to protect itself, and at that point the immediate concern is with the in-game performance you're losing due to the throttling.  It's certainly not good for the long-term health of a CPU to run it at 95º for extended periods, but it doesn't sound like that's your issue.  And it's entirely possible that your particular laptop is tuned to let the CPU run into the 90s: doing otherwise would either require a more expensive cooling apparatus (or fans that were annoyingly loud) or leave some performance on the table.

Your GPU temps are totally fine.

@puzzlezaddict  It’s fixed!
I went back into the settings of the game and did this:
The game lets you choose a refresh rate, you can choose 60 Hz or 144 Hz. I chose 60 (I think it was set on 60 all along).
I also switched from windowed mode to full screen. I turned V-Sync on (it had been off).
Now I can play on medium settings without seeing any temps in the 80s.

I tried high and ultra settings, and Hwinfo says it throttles with those because the temps still reach the 80s. I think I’ll play it safe for now and just keep going with medium settings. When it cools off outside, I will try the higher settings again. Right now I’m just glad that I can play at all. I was worried that it was never going to work, not even on the lowest settings.

Thanks yet again for your help.

I have one more quick question: If you’re playing a game in full screen mode, do the alarm pop up notifications from Hwinfo still pop up over the game? Or does full screen stop it somehow? I’ve only seen them pop up in windowed games before.

@sims929292  Fewer frames per second means fewer draw calls for the processor as well as a lighter load for the graphics card, so it's not surprising you'd see cooler temperatures.  Is the processor throttling in the 80s, or the graphics card?  A GPU will throttle hard above 80º C, but most laptops' settings will allow the CPU to go over 90.  On the other hand, maybe yours is more aggressive with the cooling.

Fullscreen mode is also lower-impact than windowed, at least most of the time, although it's better to use windowed or borderless if you want to look at other apps while you play.  You can also switch modes on the fly though.

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I have one more quick question: If you’re playing a game in full screen mode, do the alarm pop up notifications from Hwinfo still pop up over the game? Or does full screen stop it somehow? I’ve only seen them pop up in windowed games before.

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I don't actually know, although I'd expect the notification to show up even in fullscreen.  There's an easy test though: set an alarm for a ridiculously low tempertaure, say 65º C for the CPU, and play in fullscreen, then wait to see what happens.  If you don't see the pop-up, play in borderless (or windowed fullscreen in Sims 4 parlance) instead.

@puzzlezaddict  It's the CPU that was throttling. I haven't seen the GPU overheat yet. The CPU throttles on 80C or above. I haven't changed any settings related to that so the laptop seems to be automatically set that way.

@sims929292  It does sound like your laptop's internal settings are throttling the CPU somewhat prematurely, but that's not exactly a problem, more an uncommon feature that could occasionally be a bit inconvenient.  If everything's working now though, there's no reason to worry about it.

You're welcome to message me if you want, but I don't always check PMs right away.  (I do get to them eventually.)  If the question is about Sims 4 though, it's better to create a thread here: more people would see it and be able to make suggestions.  Even if I was the only one answering, I might get stumped or want a second opinion, in which case it's easier to link a thread than to ask permission to share PMs and then copy/paste each one.

But however you want to approach things, I'm sure we can make it work.