OT Gun Control in the US

Remember that time I came to an iOS game forum to talk about gun control? Me neither. There are plenty of other sites designed for topics such as this, not here.

jasonicus321 wrote:
Remember that time I came to an iOS game forum to talk about gun control? Me neither. There are plenty of other sites designed for topics such as this, not here.

He wants to know our opinions not a gun control forums members, he cleared stated it was off topic anyway so don't click if seeing non-Simpsons things rot your brain.

my problem with all the proposed legislature is:
a) what would it do to reduce ILLEGAL gun ownership? (would be) Criminals do not walk into a hunting store to buy a gun.
b) would the proposed legislature have prevented Columbine, Newtown, Aurora, etc? I'd venture to say, "no"

now for the second, does that mean we shouldn't try to address the problem? of course not. but if there is a rise in drunk driving deaths, is the answer to restrict new V8 and V12 car sales or wine/hard alcohol sales? is it to reduce car gas tanks to 5 gallons or wine bottles to 350 ML? no, and no.

also, the assault weapons ban itself is stupid. it is a ban on COSMETIC features of a gun. Real assault weapons (full automatic, heavy damage ordinance like grenades) have always been banned. magazine limits are stupid too.

In reality, in close quarters (e.g. home defense scenarios), a hip-fired shotgun will cause way more damage (both human and property) than any single handgun or rifle (whether it looks like an M16 or a regular hunting rifle). while it is easier to handle/aim a rifle, think about it - in a high pressure situation like a home invasion, is the average joe/jane going to have time to set and aim? not really...

also, remember that criminals are probably getting their hands on illegal guns (like full automatics). so putting the best possible gun in the hands of a law-abiding citizen kind of makes sense. they're going to get out-gunned anyway, but at least give them a chance (instead of bringing a sword to a gun fight).

back to the laws - you'd be surprised. on a federal level, the laws seem lax, but on a state level, most states have very stringent gun control laws (including Connecticut).

i don't know what would be a new "effective" law, but i'd start with something like cracking down even harder on illegal gun possession (i'm talking ridiculously hard - like 20 year minimum). the problem with that though, is that while that may work for run-of-the-mill criminals, that will not be effective for whack-jobs who intend to take their own life (e.g. newtown). i don't know how you can dissuade someone who has already decided to take his/her own life...

also, for the anecdotes that it's too easy to get a gun - usually it's the stores/shows that are cutting corners to make a sale. while there are stiff penalties for cutting corners, a) they're rarely enforced and b) they're only chased down in the case of a crime - after the fact. the process for gun ownership needs to be locked down and periodically audited.

to rebutt a couple common arguments:
anti-gun: why do people need military style weapons? rebuttal: they don't. but why do you need a 621 hp/738 lb-ft twin turbo v12? It's their right and a choice. Again, we're banning real military weapons. If a weekend warrior (excuse the pun) wants to live out a dream...that's his/her right and choice.

pro-gun: 2nd amendment says that gun rights "shall not be infringed" rebuttal - of course, but registration, *real* background checks, licensing, requiring to take a class, etc. do not prevent or infringe upon gun ownership, just like the DMV doesn't infringe upon your right to drive a car (although it does seem like it at times!). onerous process != infringement. 2nd amendment doesn't say "shall not infringe your rights to walk out of a store in 5 minutes with a gun." after all, ground shipping or credit card verification does not infringe upon your right to purchase something online...

full disclosure: i don't own a gun and never plan to. but i want SMART and EFFECTIVE laws that protect society and the rights of individuals.

HWick_Bluenose wrote:
From a Brits point of view there are too many "spree killings" by people who have legally acquired assault rifles and so on. I don't know how many children will need to be killed before the Republicsn Party wake up and smell the coffee.

I can understand why people feel they need guns to defend themselves in a violent society but no one needs a rapid fire rifle or sniper rifle for that.

wait - full automatics are legal in the UK? didn't the UK ban handguns after that school shooting in the 80s? handguns are banned, but full automatics are legal? that's messed up...

This is interesting.

I know very little about the laws but I can imagine how things can come about. I live in the UK and knife crime is just as bad as gun crime in the US. You are not going to be able to stop that though. People will always find ways to hurt each other. Maybe if there was laws about the amount of ammo you can keep or something.

The only problem I have is with an article I read a few days that I'm hoping some of you Americans can explain - a 5 year old shot his 2 year old sister dead with a gun designed specially for children in the US. How can that be legal? You wouldn't give a 5 year old alcohol would you?

I think the new gun control proposals are a joke and are just to appease people who are clamoring for something as I don't think they will have any impact. I could say why but it has already been done nicely already in this thread. But basically these laws won't stop criminals from getting the weapons they need and most weapons used in the mentioned attacks weren't obtained legally anyways. All these do is infringe on regular citizens, and limiting ammo clips is just making it harder to defend against illegally obtained guns.

I was introduced to guns at a young age through Boy Scouts where there was a strong emphasis on gun safety and protocol. I think something like this should be mandatory for everyone (not just gun owners but everyone). I think these classes would eliminate a lot of the confusion and controversy around these laws, even they don't I think we would all be safer. Then again I think you should have to take parenting classes and pass some sort of test before you can be a parent....

mmmmdonuts0 wrote:
This is interesting.

I know very little about the laws but I can imagine how things can come about. I live in the UK and knife crime is just as bad as gun crime in the US. You are not going to be able to stop that though. People will always find ways to hurt each other. Maybe if there was laws about the amount of ammo you can keep or something.

The only problem I have is with an article I read a few days that I'm hoping some of you Americans can explain - a 5 year old shot his 2 year old sister dead with a gun designed specially for children in the US. How can that be legal? You wouldn't give a 5 year old alcohol would you?

sadly, yes, this is true. i had no idea there was a "guns for kids" company...but apparently, there is. i guess that's more part of the gun culture question from the OP.

I'm really not interested in debating this but do feel the need to add my opinion. I am part of the gun culture, I grew up around guns. I shot my first firearm at the age of 7. My husband is the same and we are both military. I am no longer in the military but he plans on retiring from the military someday.

I am also Republican but I do not believe that gun control is partisan. There is a great radio program called "Back Story" that is available as a podcast on iTunes. Listen to their show on guns in America and it will open your eyes. The issue did not start out where it ended up.

Research the Black Panthers and their march on a congressional meeting with loaded weapons and why they did it, then see how it went from being an urban stance to a right wing stance. It's fascinating finding out the history of guns and gun control.

And now that I've gone way off-topic, I'm going back on it lol.

Violence is not caused by guns, there is violence all over the world and not just by those who have access to guns. I have friends in London who tell me stories about people being attacked with meat cleavers and screw drivers. Violent people will do violent things regardless of the weapon used.

I consider myself a Liberal Conservative and I really don't want to get into what that means. I will say that I do not have a problem with gun control, I don't have a problem with extensive background checks, and I don't have a problem with banning military assault weapons from the general public.

But I do have a problem with the belief that violence is an American problem, it's worldwide. I also have a problem with the thought that controlling guns will somehow control the violence. That's naive. Violence will occur and for those that think that making guns illegal will solve any issues then research what happened to Australia and their outlawing of guns.

Find out if the end result was what they expected.

And that's all I've got to say, pretty long but again it's not really something I'm willing to debate so if you guys feel the need to quote me and argue with what I'm saying? Go for it but just know that I have no intention of continuing this argument or responding to any comments.

Just wanted to share my thoughts/opinions.

dominic115 wrote:
He wants to know our opinions not a gun control forums members, he cleared stated it was off topic anyway so don't click if seeing non-Simpsons things rot your brain.

Thanks for clearing that up.


What generally bothers me about this topic is the extreme side of the pro-gun people. I'm not against guns, but people do not need an AR or AK to defend their own. Most people who own these guns have a problem with admitting that it is a hobby for them and the guns are more like expensive toys. They do not need them in the practical sense - never have and likely never will. But they have them, they buy accessories, hoard ammo and occasionally go and shoot them. Even gun people will tell you that they are not practical weapons for home protection, so why do people need them?

From a general perspective, the people I know who really 'need' guns for protection do not own them. I live in the inner city, in a pretty rough area and have most of my life. My house has been robbed a couple of times, I've been personally robbed and held at gun point once. I do not own a personal carry firearm, because I don't feel the need and I do not feel it would have really helped me in any of those situations. Meanwhile, I have friends who have spent their whole life in upper middle-class suburban areas that experience very little crime and you'd think they are preparing for war. All of this gun culture and fear mongering breeds armed and trigger-happy people who seem eager for their first opportunity to use their gun. It's like these people want to be robbed just so they can shoot someone.

I too have been held up at gun point. Grew up in a nice neighborhood, but have also worked the graveyard shift at 7-11 in the bad part of town (got robbed there a couple times lol) . My mom was robbed in her own house and held up with her dads guns when she was a kid.

I do not have my conceal carry or own a hand gun, it is on my to do list as there are several times I have felt I would have been better off with it. I do own a 12 gauge shotgun that I carry for work sometimes as I am a part time scientist and have to occasionally do field work that takes me close to the mexico/us border. I wasn't going to take a gun with me the first time however I was told too, since then I have been stopped by several LEO's driving to the field site to make sure I WAS carrying a gun (that scared me lol). Even if it wasn't for that aspect of my work I would still want my conceal carry.

I am anti- stupid gun control which is what I feel most of the new legislation is as I don't think it actually address or fixes any of the issues with crazy/bad people getting guns (I don't think the general population needs automatics and should stay on the books) I am very for stronger gun education and registration.