Re: Custom Build for TS4 - What are the best specs for maximum performance?

@jenjane  I tried to figure out how to order a custom build from Canada Computers and came up empty.  Maybe it's the fact that I'm in the U.S., or maybe the company is only assembling systems from components you've provided; you could call a store and ask.  But I also found a number of bad reviews and complaints, mostly along the lines of orders being delayed or going unfulfilled and a lack of communication.

I put together a build on Newegg Canada as a starting point.  Some of the choices are constrained by low stock, especially the graphics card: in this case, you'd be buying a much faster card than you'd need because the cheaper options are cleared out, other than one I wouldn't recommend.  I can't save the configuration without sigining in, so I'll list the parts instead:

processor:  Ryzen 7 5800x ($540)

motherboard:  Gigabyte X570 Gaming X($219)

memory:  GSkill Ripjaws V 32 GB (2x16) 3600 MHz ($190)

graphics card:  MSI Mech Radeon 6700XT ($1,050)

case:  I didn't choose, because that's a somewhat personal decision

PSU:  Seasonic Focus GM750 ($115)

storage:  Samsung 980 Pro 256 GB ($90)

storage:  Samsung 970 Evo Plus 1 TB ($220)

CPU cooler: Fractal Design Celsius S36 ($150)

OS:  Windows 10 OEM ($135)

Go here to select them; you can sort by price to find the parts more quickly:

https://www.newegg.ca/tools/custom-pc-builder/pl/ID-48?diywishlist=0&Order=1

To be clear, this is a lot more money—$2,708 without the case—than you need to spend.  It sounds like you want a really good system and are willing to pay more for it, but there are plenty of places where you could save money.  For example, a Ryzen 5 5600X would be perfectly fine, and you could go with a single very fast drive rather than the two Samsung options.  I chose those two because the 980 Pro is extremely fast, and Samsung is still the gold standard in SSDs, but the 1 TB option is extremely expensive, and games still can't max out the slower (but still very very fast) 970 Evo Plus or anything in its category.  If you'd like to cut down the price a bit, let me know.

I did price a few other Canadian sites too, some of which were significantly more expensive and/or had more limited selection.  One other option that's about the same price is Memory Express; let me know if you'd like a suggested configuration from there.

Please feel free to ask questions either about any of these components or overall.  This kind of thing is fun for me.

@puzzlezaddict Wow! This is extremely helpful. Sorry I didn’t get back to you yesterday, I wanted to make sure I had the time to reply properly.

I should’ve been more clear and mentioned I don’t have an SI in mind. I really don’t know where I could get one made. That’s something I still have to do the research on. Do you have any tips on finding a good SI? You’re right, I won’t think Canada Computers does custom builds - I was just looking at them for parts (I should’ve been more clear). But I’ve heard really good things about New Egg!

This list of parts is exactly what I’m looking for because again, I don’t have much knowledge of what is compatible, and why something is the best choice. I really want a good system and am definitely willing to make the investment because I am hoping that will help with it lasting long term. I know parts are always advancing and news ones are frequently coming out, do you think going with the parts you recommended (rather than cutting down on the price), will help me ensure that the computer is still great for TS5 (if it does come out within the next few years) and maybe will last longer?

Can I also ask, hypothetically, if computer parts were really easy to find with all resources being available, and you could recommend anything, how would the list of parts change? Again I’m willing to wait if it’s in my best interest!

One more question, just out of interest, do you build computers as a service, or are you more so just personally interested in the topic? If you have a business I would love to leave you a great review. You have so much knowledge and are an amazing resource. Thank you for helping me to get started and to understand the process a bit better!

@jenjane  If components were readily available right now, I'd probably suggest an Nviida RTX 3060 ti as your best bet.  It's massive overkill for Sims 4—you could get away with a 1650, and even a 1660 ti would be overkill—but if you want to play at a high resolution and/or higher framerates, it's an excellent option.  Sims 4 looks great at 2560x1440 and wonderfully smooth at >100 fps, although it'll have fps drops on any system.  Point is, you can clearly afford better than you strictly need, so pairing this system with a lovely high-performance monitor sounds to me at least like it's worthwhile.

MSRP for a 3060 ti ranges from $400 to $550 U.S. depending on the model, so certainly less than $1k CAD, but that's not relevant if you can't actually buy one.  It's said that inventory will probably be tight until some undetermined time in 2022, so paying extra for a faster card you can get now may be worth the price.  A 6700XT is slower than a 3060 ti but still massive overkill for Sims 4.

How much extra you want to spend really does depend on how long you want to keep this computer and what else you'll use it for.  But it also depends on whether you want the very best performance you'll notice (as in, you don't need a $2k graphics card if you won't notice the difference in-game, which you won't in Sims 4).  For example, with a single solid state drive that's extremely fast but not the absolute fastest, Windows would run a bit slower, but that's on the scale of a few seconds at startup or when doing searches.  If you don't need the best, you could remove the $90 980 Pro and keep the single 970 Evo Plus.

You also don't need 32 GB memory, and RAM is easy to install, again this is about getting the very best vs. something that's very close to it.  You could save money as well on the motherboard, but that's a more obvious tradeoff: the better the board, the more features it has, and you never know what you might want in three or four years.  So while you might never notice the difference, if you did realize you were missing a feature that the more expensive boards have, you'd need to rebuild the computer to get it.  Whether that's worth saving $80 is your call.

Finally, while you could get away with a cheaper processor now and for quite a while, the stronger one would support a relatively faster graphics card in the future.  If you're thinking you'd just build or buy another computer in five years, you don't care; if you want this to last, you care a lot.  As an example, the strongest Intel processor from two years ago can't totally keep up with the fastest graphics cards available now, and while I can't tell you what will be around in a few years, I can guess that the GPUs will be significantly faster than they are now.  So again, you can't know now whether you'd be missing out in the future; it's your call whether it matters.

There's no efficient way to pick a system integrator: you really need to read reviews, or price comparable builds, or both.  Local stores are often a better choice just because you can take the system back for adjustments if necessary, but you shouldn't need to do so.  If you want to compare online stores, these two might come out cheaper but don't give you the same flexibility to choose components:

https://gamertech.ca/collections/products

https://www.gamingpc.ca/purchase.php?pcID=7

Finally, it's sweet of you to offer to leave me a nice review, but I do this for fun and because I think it's interesting, not as a job.

@puzzlezaddict I cannot thank you enough! When I first asked this question I was feeling really lost and had no idea where to start. Your answers have given me very clear direction which makes things SO much easier. I’ve learned a lot and am now way more excited to get started with this process. Thank you for letting me pick your brain over these last few days!

I do have one more question, what monitor would you recommend? That’s something I’m not very good at understanding how to choose, but I know it’s important in order to actually see the benefits of what went into the computer! 

@jenjane  First of all, look for IPS monitors: that's the highest-quality panel.  VA monitors still look pretty good and can be cheaper, but avoid TN panels, which look pretty bad and are really for people on a budget or who want very high refresh rates.

Given your budget and the other components you're looking at, I'd suggest a monitor with a 2560x1440 resolution.  You might even go to 4k, but monitors can get quite expensive in that range, and 1440p still looks good.  1920x1080 can look grainy even on a relatively small screen.  A 120/144/165 Hz refresh rate would be nice, but you might not be able to tell the difference between that and 75, and if not, the higher refresh rate would be a waste of money.

The list of quality manufacturers of monitors is pretty long: Dell, HP, Acer, Asus, Samsung, MSI, LG... as long as you get something that doesn't have terrible reviews, you should be fine.  Beyond that, the choice is pretty subjective.  For example, I would never get a Dell because I don't like the way they look, but other people like them fine.  I'd strongly recommend visiting a store with monitors on display so you can see what they look like for yourself.  You don't need to see the exact monitors you're considering—all versions of a given model with the same specs (panel type, resolution, and refresh rate) should look pretty much the same.  But if you're going to stare at a screen for hours at a time, you really want to make sure you enjoy doing so.  And if you visit a store, you can see high refresh rate monitors in action and decide whether they'r worth the extra money.

Feel free to link the models you're considering.

@puzzlezaddict Ok, got it! Thank you for explaining, this is massively helpful. I will make sure to go for an IPS monitor that does the graphics card justice.

I really cannot say thank you enough. I am trying my best to do research, but it feels like there's so many things to take into consideration and I don't want to miss anything - having someone to ask these questions to is great.

I had a day off work and spent the majority of it researching the parts you recommended, and I am putting together a build on NewEgg. This led me to come up with several other questions. I really hope it's ok that I am asking so many questions, if this is getting too time consuming or you are unable to reply please do not feel obligated. You have already helped immensely. 

I should've mentioned this before, but I am really in love with the look of RGB. If I want to incorporate RGB, would it be best to do so by switching the fans? Instead of this one https://www.newegg.ca/fractal-design-liquid-cooling-system/p/N82E16835352030?Description=Fractal%20Design%20Celsius%20S36&cm_re=Fractal_Design%20Celsius%20S36-_-35-352-030-_-Product, could I use this one: https://www.newegg.ca/fractal-design-liquid-cooling-system-celsius/p/N82E16835352070? Or is there a better RGB fan option?

I've also spent the better part of the evening looking through cases (which is really overwhelming - there are so many options). I see some of the cases have three RGB fans included. This may be a silly question, but if I get a case with RGB fans in it already, do I need to buy the other fans? Or would you recommend avoiding a case with RGB fans included?

I am struggling to determine which case would be best. I really like the look of the white, I also would like 2 USB ports. Is there a brand or a specific case you would recommend? I looked through a lot of them and see people mentioning some factors that I will need to keep in mind - wire management, fan cooling capabilities, ease of build. Here are a couple that I liked:

my favourite so far - https://www.newegg.ca/white-corsair-icue-5000x-rgb-atx-mid-tower/p/N82E16811139165

https://www.newegg.ca/p/N82E16811353194?Item=N82E16811353194

One more question that may be silly, but if I can find a Nviida RTX 3060 ti, would that be compatible with the other parts you recommended? I couldn't find it on NewEgg in order to double check.

Again, please do not feel pressured to continue to reply if you're unable. I've taken up a lot of your time already!

@jenjane  More questions are fine, although RGB is not a subject I've spend a lot of time learning about.  It does tie in with the case though, so it's best to consider both at the same time.

First of all, I don't think the airflow is very good in the second case you linked.  The first one is great: the difference is that it can draw air through the front panel and expel it through one of the side panels or vice versa; the first one has a much smaller opening in the front and only the small back panel fan for exhaust.  Check the photos on Newegg and you'll see.  The point is, in the first case, you could mount a 3-fan radiator on either the front or side panel, put three fans spinning in the opposite direction in the other, and get excellent airflow.  There are other cases that have similar layouts, but it's hard to search for them: you really need to check the photos and sometimes even look up the dimensions.

Once you have a case in mind, you can plan where to put your RGB.  Taking the example of the first case you linked, if you're mounting the radiator on the side panel (facing towards you as you look at the components), then you probably do want it to have RGB.  If you mount it on the front panel, you may not notice RGB facing into the case, depending on the angle at which you'd place the computer.  Many cases also come with RGB fan covers, basically grills that light up that you'd put on the front panel over the fans or radiator, and if you had those, you wouldn't need RGB fans facing out on the front panel.

Additionally, the fans that come with a radiator are more efficient than standard case fans.  So while you could swap out the radiator fans, it's better not to, or at least to get (more expensive) replacement fans designed to go over a radiator.  At that point, you might as well go with an RGB-ready radiator.  If you want other options, Corsair makes excellent AIO (all-in-one) coolers too.  I didn't pick any of them because the Fractal Design model is just as good and a lot cheaper without RGB.

Point is, you should choose your case, then where you want the radiator to go, and then you'll know whether you need its fans to have RGB.  With the RGB models, you'll likely also get some lighting on the pump that sits over the CPU.

If you want a tricked-out system, you can also get RGB memory.  In that case, decide whether you want two or four sticks: people typically get two, but four should be perfectly stable, and 4x8 GB is not much more expensive than 2x16.  If you let me know what you want, I'll double-check the compatibility with your motherboard: most quality RAM should be supported, but it's always better to check first.  And RGB RAM is not that expensive either compared to non-RGB options.

Most graphics cards have RGB, and most quality motherboards do too, but I can double back and check those as well.

Finally, yes, a 3060 ti would fit perfectly inside this build.  If you did manage to get your hands on one, you could probably sell the 6700XT "open box" for MSRP to someone local.  But please don't pay scalper prices—it's not worth the cost, and scalpers suck.

@puzzlezaddict Hi again, I'm sorry that I'm a week late in getting back to you. Personal life and work got in the way this week, and I've just gotten the time to finally sit down and resume this research! First of all, thank you for explaining why one of the cases is better than the other, the point about airflow makes a lot of sense and I will keep this in mind when looking at other cases and making a final decision. Thank you also for explaining that I could mount multiple fans, I didn't really consider that. It makes sense that the ones sold separately would be more efficient than the stock ones that come with cases. As for RGB, I will explore this topic further. I know it's not a necessity, and it's probably the least important part of the build anyways, just something I figured I may as well include if I am really making this my dream computer. With that in mind, the grill covers sound like a great idea! Thanks for explaining about the other RGB parts. I will try not to go overboard and stick with the RGB case and fans. I really can't wait to dive back into this project this weekend! My sister's boyfriend has offered to help me with putting together the computer - apparently he has experience with this. So I am seriously considering this route. Is there anything that you would seriously caution against if I did go this route? There is absolutely no rush to reply. Once again, sorry for my delay!

@jenjane  I guess it depends on how much experience your sister's boyfriend has.  If he's built a computer from scratch, not just upgraded one but started with separate components, then the two of you building it together would be great, probably better than ordering a custom build from Newegg or anywhere else.  Even though the build itself wouldn't be under warranty, the parts would be, and it's actually pretty hard to break things during the build process if you know what you're doing.  And you yourself would learn a lot from the experience, probably enough to be comfortable upgrading a component or two when the time comes.  I don't know your sister's boyfriend, but you do, so use your best judgment.

Of course, if you're ordering the components separately, you'd need to find a graphics card somewhere.  The market has actually improved a lot since you first posted due to China banning crypto mining, so you might be able to get exactly the card you want for near MSRP, especially if you're patient.  I'd check inventory for you, but your best bet is probably visiting a physical store when it happens to have inventory... or maybe finding a seller on Craigslist who was trying to scalp cards and is worried about being left holding the bag, so to speak.  As long as the card is factory-sealed, you should be fine.

Just to clarify, the most efficient orientation of all is to have the fans that come with the AIO cooler mounted against the radiator.  Having them pulling air into the case is better than pushing out, but with a 3-fan radiator, you should be fine either way.  Case fans are more than good enough for the other locations, especially if your radiator fans are pulling air into the case and the case fans are pushing it out.  The key is to get maximum airflow through the radiator and enough fresh air into the case overall.

@puzzlezaddict Thank you for your reassurance! I've confirmed that he has built before and is able to help me with that part, so I am definitely going to go that route. I actually didn't consider the warranty aspect, but I really do like the idea of being able to upgrade or replace a part myself when needed.

I'm really happy to hear that the prices have cooled, hopefully they're still reasonable since I know I am again delayed in replying, which I apologize for. I will be sure not to purchase from a scalper, thanks for the tip!

I'm still trying to figure out the case. I appreciate the note on how to best mount the fans. Once I actually get into the building of this I will update you on how it goes 🙂 I really appreciate all of the ongoing help and advice you've offered. I wouldn't have been able to do this without all of your help!

@jenjane  Alright, let me know if you have any more questions.  I've definitely seen reports of Canadians walking into a Best Buy/Canada Computers/some other store and finding a good graphics card, so you might not have to work all that hard to find one.  There's still some luck involved though.

I spoke with an associate from Best Buy and they gave me advice on how to get the graphics card, so I'm going to be patient and see if I have any luck. In the meantime, I'm hoping to pick your brain again if that's alright.

I've decided on the Corsair 5000D Airflow Tempered Glass case (thanks for backing this choice in a previous post, that was really helpful!). It looks like it comes with two fans (one on the back, one on the front). I looked through all of the review photos to try and understand how many fans I would need. I think I would leave the standard fan on the back, put the CPU cooler at the top if possible, and would add three RGB fans in the front (instead of just the one black fan). I’ve included picture examples for reference.

Based on the PC Builder (link to the build: https://newegg.io/e1c624b), it only shows me one CPU Cooler option, which isn’t RGB. Are there any other ones that you think would be compatible? If not I’m fine to go with the one the builder is recommending.

I did also want to ask if you would be able to recommend three RGB fans for the front? Again I know there’s one standard fan in the front that’s included, but I assume it’s not RGB so I’ll have to replace it.

Besides the graphics card, monitor/accessories, is there anything else the build is missing based on the New Egg list?

Thanks again for your endless help! Have a great weekend!

@jenjane  Are you in fact going to build everything yourself, or are you going to order most of the computer and install the graphics card and some extra fans?  If you're building yourself, you might as well order from different stores and get the best price.  The easiest way to price-compare is this:

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/

You'll be able to see all the available options, sorted by whatever categories you want.  For example, I sorted CPU coolers to show Corsair or Fractal Design models with 360mm radiators:

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/products/cpu-cooler/#m=11,106&W=10360&sort=price

That's obviously not many, but you can see the difference between one with only RGB on the pump that sits over the CPU vs. one that comes with RGB fans.  There are obviously plenty of other options for coolers; I just picked those brands because I already know they offer quality models without having to look up reviews.

Looking at the photo of the case, I'm not totally sure that a radiator and its fans would fit in a top mount.  If it does fit, fine, but be prepared to need to change your mind and mount at the front or on the side (the grill on the right) instead.

For the extra fans, you don't want the cheapest possible models, but you also don't need to worry about getting the absolute best (most efficient) option because most of the heat from the CPU will be dissipated by the radiator.  So pick a set that runs quiet, looks good to you, and doesn't cost too much.  They're all a standard size, except for the specialty thin ones, and should fit fine.

You don't really need more than three extra fans, but you might want them just for show.  Either way, the best airflow would be with front (and possibly side) intake fans and top and back outtake; if there's a mount for a fan on the bottom of the case, you could stick one there too as intake.  The advantage of having a front-mounted radiator with its fans on intake is that the air passing over the radiator is cooler than if the fans are on outtake, but with the processor you're getting and a quality 360mm radiator, it doesn't actually matter: the cooler will more than keep up with its load either way.

You can also play with the configurations of the fan and radiator if you want.  There's nothing that says you have to pick one answer and stick with it.

@puzzlezaddict I've decided I'm going to try to build everything myself (with the help of my sister's boyfriend of course). My knowledge is still really basic, but I am enjoying learning. And, as we previously discussed, it would be great if I have the ability and knowledge to change parts in the future if needed.

PCpartpicker has been a fantastic resource, thanks for sharing! I was a bit unsure about it since at the beginning of my research I came across someone who said they did not use it, but I'm so glad you recommended it because it's really helping me to understand things further. It's definitely a great price comparison tool - I'm just making sure to select the parts from places that I am confident in purchasing from. I also really liked being able to look at other people's builds that were done in the same case (as well as their part lists), which helped me decide on the CPU cooler/fans.

I didn't venture away from any of the main components that you recommended, because the reviews are good and, although my knowledge is limited, from my understanding they seem like they'll offer strong performance and the ability for multitasking. Here is the PCPicker parts list based on your suggestions: https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/2xPM9N. In order to choose the fans, I took inspiration from this build (I like the placement as well): https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/b/vVNqqs. It would be great if I could get your opinion on the fans/placement pictured here!

One thing I'm unsure about is the warning, "Warning!Some AMD X570 chipset motherboards may need a BIOS update prior to using Vermeer CPUs. Upgrading the BIOS may require a different CPU that is supported by older BIOS revisions." I tried to google what it means but I don't know enough to really understand the basics of what this message is saying, or if I need to switch something to be safe. Are you able to help explain this?

I haven't selected a monitor yet because I am going to take your advice and look at them in store. Once I've made my final decision on all the parts I plan to watch for any sale prices (may as well do that while I'm waiting to see if I can get the graphics card). I do worry slightly that if I purchase parts too far in advance and they're defective I'll be past the return timeframe, but I'll be sure to review the policies of the retailers. Right now I'm most comfortable with Best Buy, New Egg, and Canada Computers.

@jenjane  The build looks good.  Now that you're building though, you have more flexibility to choose exactly what you want, and you may want slightly different, perhaps slightly cheaper, components.  In my example of a custom Newegg build, I chose the cheapest quality options rather than the absolute best, because a) the absolute best is often twice or three times as expensive, and b) the performance improvement above a certain level is in the 2-3% range.  There's no point in buying an $800 motherboard just to squeeze every bit of performance out of your system—if you wanted to spend that kind of money, you'd upgrade the GPU instead for a much larger benefit.

The point is, you may want to choose other components, in particular the motherboard and RAM.  (Or I can look if you're still not sure what to choose.)  The important parts for the board are that you get an X570 model with an ATX form factor.  X570 is the best category in terms of build quality, included features, and support from the manufacturer.  ATX is basically the size and shape, and while smaller boards can work fine, it's easier to work with a larger board, which is important for your first build.

As far as RAM is concerned, a wise person once told me to pick a model from a quality manufacturer that was compatible with the board and wasn't too expensive.  It's relatively cheap to manufacture quality memory, and most of the good vendors offer lifetime warranties for a reason.  For compatibility, each board's specs page should list suitable RAM by part number, for example this is the board you've picked out:

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X570-GAMING-X-rev-10/support#support-doc

(The 5000-series models are Vermeer CPUs.)

On the other hand, maybe I'm making things overly complicated here, and if that's the case, feel free to ignore the above.

As for the BIOS update, on the same support page for your motherboard:

https://www.gigabyte.com/Motherboard/X570-GAMING-X-rev-10/support#support-cpu

You'll see that the 5000-series CPUs are supported and have been since BIOS version F30.  The BIOS is basic software for your board, and manufacturers will release updated versions as new components are released and new features become available.  The X570 boards are older than the 5000-series CPUs, so of course their first BIOS revisions wouldn't support those processors.

Whether this is a problem for you depends on two factors.  One is whether you happen to get a board with a more recent BIOS version, which is impossible to tell from the website.  The other is that some boards allow you to flash a new BIOS without a processor installed, in which case you don't need to worry about compatibility because you can just install the new BIOS before the processor.  In case you want more info:

https://rog.asus.com/technology/republic-of-gamers-motherboard-innovations/usb-bios-flashback/

I don't think the Gigabyte board has that feature, although I'd have to check.  This is a common but not universal feature.  I didn't go over it before because a system integrator would take care of that for you along with the rest of the build process.

And just to be clear, if your BIOS doesn't support the CPU, the computer doesn't boot, just like that.  I've seen it happen.

@puzzlezaddict You're not making things overly complicated at all, I really appreciate the explanations. I am so so so grateful for all of the time and help you've given me. I'm sorry that my questions are never ending. I do at least feel like things are evolving and I'm getting closer to the end goal.

Would you mind recommending a motherboard and RAM? If you think anything else should be changed I am always open to suggestions, but again I feel like I keep creating more work so I do apologize for that! Now that I have gotten further into this I've realized that $5000 was probably an unnecessarily high budget lol! So I have been aiming for around $3000, but it's still flexible if need be.

I'm slowly feeling better about the basics of being able to put this together, but when it comes to really understanding the knitty gritty of the function of pieces and the "why" I still feel nervous. Obviously this is a learning process, and I promise I am trying to do my research too, but I feel so much better actually speaking to someone and receiving explanations, because I'm not entirely confident in my decisions. I really hope it doesn't seem like I'm being lazy! There's no way I would be able to do this without your help.

@puzzlezaddict Please ignore my questions about the BIOS above lol! I've been doing more research tonight and watched more videos. Based on what you said and what I'm reading, it sounds safest to go with a board where I can flash the update. 

Since some of my questions above are obsolete now, I wanted to simplify my ask (but no rush or pressure to reply) - if you were going to recommend a motherboard (that allows for the BIOS flash update) and RAM that are "better," what would you recommend? I've attached a picture of the current list. I'm open to any other pieces you'd recommend I change - again I really appreciate your advice.

I'm sorry if some of my questions are silly at times. I hope I am not overcomplicating things. I know I still have a lot of research to do, and I will keep doing that. Thank you so much again for your help. 

@puzzlezaddict Hey! I finished my computer a couple of months ago. I really buckled down with research and am so happy with the final result: