Re: If EA doesn’t want to “KICK” people
DICE: Battlefield 2042 Squad Kick & Ban Options Not Going to Be Implemented Since It Doesn’t Promote “Healthy PTFO Behavior”
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65 Replies
Was just going to post about this, but ya beat me to it 🙂
I gotta say that I emphatically disagree with not having a kick/ban option.
It isn't "Squad Management" if you don't include the tools necessary to "manage" your squad.
- @NazT55
Thank you for posting this. It is really hard to believe how little Dice themselves now understand what are the basic elements of such a core feature like squad management are.
It's not that you can't kick someone now, you just create a new squad and have all your friend join that one again. Accomplishes EXACTLY the same thing, but with more clicks and with 3 players having to do the clicking instead of just the squad leader.
And if you use a kick feature to remove a player from your squad that is NOT PTFOing to make room for someone who is (or might be), then why is this not promoting PTFO they are talking about?
@Ironhead841 wrote:Was just going to post about this, but ya beat me to it 🙂
I gotta say that I emphatically disagree with not having a kick/ban option.
It isn't "Squad Management" if you don't include the tools necessary to "manage" your squad.
You do wonder why they can't just bring back the Squad Management we had in previous BF's rather than a limtied cut down version.
The bad news is, this random squad selection is DICE's worst decision ever. Most of all, it infuriates when you transfer to the passenger seat on the vehicle to repair the helicopter, LOL respawns on you which merge the helicopter.
The inability to kick people from your squad or to make it private is not helping PTFOing
If anything it keeps us open to intentional or unintentional game-play molestation/harassment by strangers towards players with a more specialized playstyle such as chopper duos.
Dearest Straatford, please be a dear pass to the relevant people that they should focus on "think" (insert "think mark" meme) instead of "feel" 😉 This is not the girls math class from the Simpsons. This is Battlefield.
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- @NazT55 I'm actually thinking they're promoting toxicity by not having squad kick.
I mean a kick would have to be better than being told to &*^%-off over comms right? What I read is, we don't want to hurt someone's feelings because they get booted from a squad so we are not going to allow that option. Instead, we will make it more different for those that want to play together by having you create a new squad with a new reservation system.
What a joke. In all my years/hours playing this series of games I've never felt like the kick system was abused. Add this to the list of things that make us want to quit playing.
oh man, just another example of their incompetence.
[edit] I guess I should try to be constructive.
1. Put players into a public squad if they aren’t already teamed up from previous session and give players the options to create a squad. When creating squad give them option to make it public/private. Private squads should have option to kick/ban people in the squad for management purposes. Or even perhaps, create a sub squad. . It is a private squad after all.
2. if someone’s kicked find a squad for them to join. Perhaps use some intelligence to help pick the best squad. I.e
- squad with similar points per player/avg
- squad with complimentary classes.
- hell, even group any 1 player squads into a squad.
3. To promote clan play, if someone has a clan tag set, perhaps help facilitate clans by putting them clan members into clan squad. I.e [abc]-Alpha-Squad, [abc]-Beea-squad with options for perhaps alternate teams etc.
I dunno, this strikes me of simple thinking and completely out of touch with what battlefield was ever really about. Even less confidence this will ever be a game worth playing again.
@Calhoun0 wrote:
I remember exactly how awful Battlefield 2 and Battlefield 2142 were when you could be kicked from a squad. There were always players who refused to PTFO who weren't in squads. Surely, this is because they were kicked from squads, not because they just don't care about PTFO. I should have tried to invite them into my squad more often to help them out, that would have gotten them to PTFO for sure!
You know what would be better than having squadless people not PTFO? Having all those squadless non-contributing players in squads not PTFO, occupying a slot or slots which could go to people who want to PTFO. That way, you've got a half dozen non-cohesive squads instead of a bunch of cohesive, focused squads. This makes sure non-contributing players don't feel left out. They deserve the right to be able to use the other contributing PTFO players in their squad as a spawn point to get them into better or more convenient positions to snipe from, because walking or driving from the uncap or nearest point to find a nice place to camp is just too hard.
You know, the way it is right now.
@Calhoun0 You could be kicked from squad in BF1 and I think in BFV as well so this isn't a request for a return from the old days that we haven't seen since the '00s, it's a current piece of squad management being intentionally left out of a modern game. There are valid reasons to kick people from squad such as he doesn't stick with the squad giving you a 25% penalty to your combat effectiveness, you're friend was coming but the rando beat him to the squad, or he's being toxic and you want him out. There are far more benefits to having a kick feature than drawbacks.
The ability to remove someone from your squad is just basic squad handling that is as necessary as actions such as ability to enter and exit vehicles, open doors etc.
I do understand the explanation DICE gives but come on…how much do we have to cater to people with ultra thin skin.
@ForumUser написал (-а):
@NazT55
It is really hard to believe how little Dice themselves now understand what are the basic elements of such a core feature like squad management are.Incompetent figures almost finished off the game. They have learned the topic of team building and can lead everything in the world. True, not for long. Until the next project they lead fails.
DICE, there are two things which are crucial to squad management. Please look at your older titles for reference.
1. Mutiny feature. If the squad leader is not setting orders and a squad member has requested orders multiple times, then promote the requesting squad member to leader.
2. Ability for squad leader to kick a player from the squad.
These abilities were present in all previous BF titles (Although #1 was initially missing from BFV and later added). Its mind-boggling how development doesn't seem to understand the importance of these features to PTFO squad play with randoms. No one is going to be able to "teach" other squad members on the fly. We don't have the right tools in this type of game to educate. It's very fast paced and most people are not in voice communication.
The player who was kicked can easily join another squad or play solo. It doesn't hurt them. It doesn't reduce their score/XP, it doesn't prevent them from continuing to play exactly as they had been before they were removed from the squad. If they wanted to remain with one of the other players in that squad they can create their own.
maybe we should consider it "suprise reassignments" ?
@NazT55 wrote:DICE: Battlefield 2042 Squad Kick & Ban Options Not Going to Be Implemented Since It Doesn’t Promote “Healthy PTFO Behavior”
We're not here to "help" uncooperative players PTFO we are here to PTFO. I can't say what I want about this because I'll get reprimanded, maybe banned. There is no better and direct way to promote PTFO then with the discipline of kick/ban. I don't want laze around players on my squad. What kind of nursery school is DICE trying to run here?
- @DaveTheBrave_USA Agreed.
I would not want a team mate camping on a hill behind lines in a tank or sniper doing his own thing, whilst the rest of us are trying to do objectives etc. - @Hudson1531
@DaveTheBrave_USA
Absolutely right. In the past titles there always was the option to remove those non-PTFO players from your squad in the hope they get replaced with others that do try to win the game instead of doing the lone wolf thing. Basically the kick functionality IS promoting PTFO while not having it does not. Just because you can't kick those hillside campers will definitely NOT cause them to PTFO.
Another proof -- if ever one more was needed -- that Dice definitely does not understand their own game (most likely because those making the decisions do not actually play it and the dev that does has no say into the matter).
We can still do that now, but we have to create a completely new squad and have the other squad mates join this one then. Which works for us as we are in a clan and will always be communicating using TeamSpeak. So no problem for us and just a rather unnecessary inconvenience.
But for other players that don't play in a clan and that just found each other on the Battlefield, this coordination might not be that simple. I get why they haven't included a kick feature but I don't remember it being too bad in the past games, and I don't think it'd hurt tremendously if it was added.
Been kicked from many a squad in my time, like when there's a friend joining the squad or I'm playing terribly, but I just shrugged my shoulders and joining a new one or created my own. Had to kick people too of course, although I tried to only do that for the "request orders" spammers.
@ElliotLH wrote:I get why they haven't included a kick feature...
If that is the case, then maybe enlighten us?
Because the reasons given by Dice are stupid and demonstrably wrong, but maybe you could come up with a reason why this is a good thing?
The official reason given was 'it should promote PTFO' when in fact it does the opposite.
@ForumUser wrote:
@ElliotLH wrote:
I get why they haven't included a kick feature...
If that is the case, then maybe enlighten us?
Because the reasons given by Dice are stupid and demonstrably wrong, but maybe you could come up with a reason why this is a good thing?
The official reason given was 'it should promote PTFO' when in fact it does the opposite.
It's already been mentioned by others: kicking isn't inclusive.
@ElliotLH wrote:It's already been mentioned by others: kicking isn't inclusive.
That I would say is the whole point.
The squad leader has to be able to decide who is included. If you are excluded (aka kicked), then it is not because of your skin color or because you are gay (or whatever being ' inclusive' would be about) but because you are either sniping from the edge of the map, yelling 'request order' every 5 seconds or obviously do not want to play with the squad but maybe prefer to sit in a vehicle close to your base while we other 3 try to capture a flag near the enemy base for 10 minutes.
So yes, not caring about 'inclusiveness' but being able to open a place in the squad for someone who WANTS to PTFO with us is precisely the point here.
Was there mention of being able to lock your squad? This could be a solution to not being able to kick, maybe?
@ForumUser wrote:
@ElliotLH wrote:
It's already been mentioned by others: kicking isn't inclusive.
That I would say is the whole point.
The squad leader has to be able to decide who is included. If you are excluded (aka kicked), then it is not because of your skin color or because you are gay (or whatever being ' inclusive' would be about) but because you are either sniping from the edge of the map, yelling 'request order' every 5 seconds or obviously do not want to play with the squad but maybe prefer to sit in a vehicle close to your base while we other 3 try to capture a flag near the enemy base for 10 minutes.
So yes, not caring about 'inclusiveness' but being able to open a place in the squad for someone who WANTS to PTFO with us is precisely the point here.
You do realise that I don't disagree?
- @ElliotLH
Sorry, I did not. You wrote:
"I get why they haven't included a kick feature",
and therefore I assumed you know their reason. But after I asked what this reason might be -- after nobody else here seemed to have know one -- you replied that 'kicking is not inclusive' and for that reason I concluded that you thought that 'being inclusive' must have been the reason for preventing us from having this basic tool for squad management.
Whatever. We will use the 'Create new squad' workaround. No real big problem for us and this achieves basically the same thing, but might in the end be actually WORSE for the person left alone in the squad. If you kick someone, Dice could even decide to automatically collect all kicked players in their own squads. If you just leave them in the previous squad, they will be on their own. Which is most likely what they deserve anyway 😉
@ForumUser wrote:
@ElliotLH
Sorry, I did not. You wrote:
"I get why they haven't included a kick feature",
and therefore I assumed you know their reason. But after I asked what this reason might be -- after nobody else here seemed to have know one -- you replied that 'kicking is not inclusive' and for that reason I concluded that you thought that 'being inclusive' must have been the reason for preventing us from having this basic tool for squad management.
Whatever. We will use the 'Create new squad' workaround. No real big problem for us and this achieves basically the same thing, but might in the end be actually WORSE for the person left alone in the squad. If you kick someone, Dice could even decide to automatically collect all kicked players in their own squads. If you just leave them in the previous squad, they will be on their own. Which is most likely what they deserve anyway 😉Cool, that's why I was asking as I figured I wasn't being clear. Basically while I understand their reasoning, mostly based on the screenshot, I don't actually agree with a kick feature not being implemented. It never hurt my feelings when I've been kicked in the past and I assume that most people would do what I used to do if it happened - carrying on in a different squad or solo.
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