Forum Discussion

Chocobroski's avatar
6 years ago

A better approach to skill based matchmaking

So, currently, the biggest on-going complaint is SBMM, which is justified in my opinion. SBMM in my, and I believe many others' opinion basically defeats the purpose of ranked queue. The reason you play ranked is that you want to climb and know you'll be facing tough opponents with a high possibility of the strats we all know come into play in ranked. But, you're ready for them because you know that's simply what ranked is.

This is all fine IF it weren't for the fact that as soon as you've played for a good amount of time and your "hidden" MMR is basically the same in the regular queue as it is in ranked queue. It gets to a point where it doesn't matter whether you play ranked or not, it all may as well be ranked because that's how the games feel. You play non-ranked to have fun, mess around, potentially fight much stronger people or much weaker people, and not wait on actual queue times because there's plenty of people actually playing the game if all ranks are combined. Except, thanks to SBMM that isn't a thing. You queue non-ranked but you basically fight the same people you would as if you were queuing ranked... That's not how it should be. It completely defeats the purpose of ranked. It's a thing in a lot of fps style games recently and in each of those games people complain about it... yet companies still feel the need for it to be a thing.

So how do you make it more random but still skill-based? Simple, you place a limit on which rank can queue with which, and I'm not talking diamond can only queue with diamond and above and maybe plat 1. No, you limit it to 2 whole tiers instead, you make it semi skill-based i.e. a diamond 4 player can get into a game with pretty much any predator but can also get into games with gold 4 or plat 4. However, they can't queue with a bronze 4 for example because they're most likely new to the game and have no idea what's going on. So you limit the queue pool to 2 tiers higher and 2 tiers lower. 

Honestly, though, this is just a middle ground because for some reason companies are hellbent on SBMM. In my opinion, I say remove it completely, who cares if u run into a player worse than you and you completely destroy them? A minute later you could get the exact same treatment from someone that's twice as good as you, that's the whole point of the game. You play ranked if you want to play seriously against equally skilled players, you play non-ranked if you want to f*ck around and don't feel like sweating every game.

Finally, if you really want an unranked mode that still queues people against equally skilled players, you know to practice while not actually losing points? It's quite simple, add a "scrims queue" that mirrors your current ranked MMR, this mode would not affect your MMR whatsoever and can only be changed by actually playing ranked. This way people can still practice against the players they would normally face in ranked but without the pressure of losing points. 

Now I'm sure there are some flaws that would need to be worked out with this but, honestly, the way regular queue works right now needs to change. And it's not even a difficult change to make. This is just my take on things, I'm sure there will be people that disagree but the majority right now seems to be against SBMM and I agree with the said majority.

8 Replies

  • @Chocobroski I think either get rid of SBMM or limit it to lower levels, maybe make level 1-50s in a queue and level 50-100s in another queue but for everyone level 100+ keep it totally random

    This way the newer players can learn the basics, and not get destroyed

    Then after level 50 the ones that have played awhile wont be destroying the level 1+ and the level 50+ can gradually get better by playing with alittle more skilled players closer to 100 but not there yet, then everyone over level 100 will have all skill groups like it always has been which will lead to a more casual mode rather than ranked as it should be having all level 100+ skill levels not all pros but not all nubs either

    Tbh we don’t even need SBMM I enjoyed the game as a nub even with getting my butt wooped by 5-600 kill players back in season 1, SBMM is making the game unplayable for everyone except for the noobs so unless your trying to get rid of your current playerbase and want the noobs to replace us I suggest you do something soon
  • TheJumpingJawa's avatar
    TheJumpingJawa
    Seasoned Ace
    6 years ago

    If there must be matchmaking, then I think it needs to be voluntary.

    By that I mean, it should be the players who choose the difficulty of lobbies they're willing join.

    To encourage players to aim for harder lobbies, you scale rewards by the difficulty of the opponents you face.

    Low tier lobbies, you just get XP, higher tiers award packs, or crafting mats according to damage done & position finished.

  • iBlockHead's avatar
    iBlockHead
    6 years ago

    I must be a noob.. ☹️ 

    In all seriousness, SBMM allows for all players to better themselves in Apex without the punishment of going down in tier. Outside the, "I don't want to try so much all the time" what other reason is there to not want SBMM? 

    I seem to only find high level players wanting SBMM to be removed to get the enjoyment of easy gunfights where all 3 enemies run in circles letting you fire away at them. That shouldn't be the case ever, those players should be paired up with more players of their own skill level to avoid being stomped out thus wanting to quit the game. Sure there are a few who don't care but there are more who do and don't want to get killed every second they jump in. 

    SBMM for me has allowed for me to try out new solo-duo-team strats that I wouldn't try in Ranked due to losing RP if I was to fail and die. Sometimes I even get games where its silent and peaceful which is nice and allows me to mess around a bit and that happens just as much as the games I get thrown into where I have to fight for my life. 

    I guess if people REALLY have an issue with this, a simple solution would be to just create a duplicate of the normal Apex mode and turn off SBMM for it. 

    Otherwise it's only an issue for those who go into casual and expect a much easier win than in rank. 

  • @iBlockHead I don't see anyone improving with sbmm, how do u figure? I see people quitting.

    Anecdotal... I have a friend who isn't very good so he's put with noob lobbies. He starts putting up higher kill and dmg games and says he's improving. It's an illusion

    He then plays with me and can't do more then 100 dmg and dies first every time in my pub lobbies. So did he improve?
  • @iBlockHead You are not understanding any of this, its not about easy wins/easy kills, hell I couldn’t even get easy wins/kills before SBMM was a thing, lets see you get into a full lobby where atleast 60% of it is all players with 50-250 season 3 wins and thousands of kills

    I have over 1.6k kills... with all my legends combined these are all players that have like 6k+

    I dont even have 50 wins combined on all my characters just 43, these players usually have over 100 on just 1 character..., you can imagine how much more skill they have than I do, why Am i being matched with them.... SBMM is doing an awful job at determining ones skill level and once you end up like me, somewhere you don’t belong, you will understand
  • iBlockHead's avatar
    iBlockHead
    6 years ago

    @highOctane91prem"I have a friend who isn't very good so he's put with noob lobbies. He starts putting up higher kill and dmg games and says he's improving. It's an illusion"

    You say illusion but if he's putting out damage more than usual and kills than he is improving on his skill level. Bringing him up with you and expecting him to do just as good make you delusional. I put out some amazing plays here and there but if you pit me against a pro Esports player, I'm going to get pooped and probably before I even take their shield away.


    @FaIIenAngeI777  what is you rank? and how did you get there? (camping/kills/mix of both)

    It could be the system mistook some of your great games and pit you against others of higher skill level because of the times you sweated and put out amazing stats. I was somewhere I didn't belong, with all the noobies and started to work my way up until I find it difficult to keep going. Now I average an easy top 5-10 and if I put in that extra effort, top 3 and if I squeeze out even more effort, 1st place. Win.

    Considering the stats you listed off, it seems SBMM is not what's putting you where you are considering you shouldn't be fighting players with 50x more wins than you but more so you seem to be a filler for those lobbies that don't have enough players. An issue like this would need to be looked at more as your skill doesn't seem to match anyone in your lobbies.

  • @iBlockHeadHonestly I think its something to do with the new event mode, I was fine and doing my skill level games, then the event dropped and I did nothing but the event for 3 days probally got 10-20 champion wins, then I went back to pubs and can’t do anything anymore, so either the update changed something with SBMM or its because Ive been playing the event alot and winning it, i mean its based around 3rd partying... its not a hard event at all when I played as wraith I was getting 10 kill games back to back sometimes 7-10 but eventually that number dropped to like 5 a match it just depends what legends had what loadouts mainly

    Note: i dont really know my rank because ive never really botherred with it, when rank first came out I did it alittle til I got to gold, then I had to go out of state for a few weeks and then my uncle died so I had to go out of state another week or so for a funeral and when I came back Ive just done casual since so i think it demoted me to silver something at the start of season 3 ive done a few matches to do those weekly challenges or dailys but that’s about it so idk what my actual top ceiling is before I can’t do any better

    im not necessarily a kill chaser but sometimes If i have a good team and I have decent gear/heals i will chase some team I see and fight them but Im not like streamers and just go from fight to fight back to back over and over and wipe a lobby lol i usually only would average 1-4 kills occasionally 5 kills but I had a game every couple of weeks where I would get lucky one game I got 9 as gibby and won as kill leader and I got 7 kills one game as lifeline and won a kill leader, So I do agree SBMM works and I was seeing improvement however Idk why Ive been promoted but now the games just unplayable for me I wasnt doing those 7-9 kill games everygame I usually would only get 1-4 so i assumed that was my skill level

    After being promoted you start to see what these pros are having to go through because of SBMM, I don’t think Im quite seeing the worst of the worst I feel like theres probally a rank or 2 above wherever Im at, and its not fair for them to be stuck in these type of game modes wether its casual or ranked... Thats why Im thinking SBMM needs to be from level 1 to lets say 50 so nubs can learn the basics, then from 50 to 100 another section of SBMM, but level 100+ keep it entirely random, best of the best worst of the worst 100+ just have them all in the same lobbys together; since everyone’s complaining about premades make them seperate somehow but then they will complain too so idk I heard from QuakeV or Sethlyy I don’t remember that they were going to match any player that was streaming into the same lobbies together so maybe they will do the same with premades

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