Apex Support Rolls: What is support?
Just wanted to make a post about support rolls in video games and all that they can entail. Presently we only have a healer and a looter support but there really is a larger variety. In this post: h...
Forum Discussion
EA_QueenBee
Community Manager
Community ManagerI absolutely agree that Apex could use more support characters. Although I personally main mirage (and argue that he's already a support legend despite not actually being there), support is always my go-to in any game I play. I'm also, just in case, going to preface everything else by saying that all of this is my opinion:
I feel like the big issue is that big buff vs debuff divide. Personally, I think that they can't really release a debuff hero without major backlash from the community (Probably myself included 😉 ). Making an ally more powerful is fine; you both live the fantasy of being the one who sets up big plays, and the one that proceeds to 1 (really 2) v 3 an entire enemy squad. The problem with debuffing I feel is that the negative experience that the debuffee has is greater than the positive experience the debuffer gets. Bangalore and Caustic throwing smoke/gas that blocks line of sight is one thing, but I feel like a character that actually blinds you would cause some uninstalls. Same for an ability that causes misfires/disarms an enemy. Reaper is less upsetting to me because while he does stop you from using your abilities, ultimately it's still a shooter and left clicking doesn't become less effective. The last thing we want is to feel completely powerless.
That said, I love the buffer role ideas you shared! (Especially if we can stick all of them onto Mirage) Here's hoping that we get plenty of fun new supports down the line!
Here's a wild question, not to derail the conversation, but with "increasing ally ability to perceive the enemy", could you argue that Recon heroes are also support heroes in a funny hat? Because I would.
I feel like the big issue is that big buff vs debuff divide. Personally, I think that they can't really release a debuff hero without major backlash from the community (Probably myself included 😉 ). Making an ally more powerful is fine; you both live the fantasy of being the one who sets up big plays, and the one that proceeds to 1 (really 2) v 3 an entire enemy squad. The problem with debuffing I feel is that the negative experience that the debuffee has is greater than the positive experience the debuffer gets. Bangalore and Caustic throwing smoke/gas that blocks line of sight is one thing, but I feel like a character that actually blinds you would cause some uninstalls. Same for an ability that causes misfires/disarms an enemy. Reaper is less upsetting to me because while he does stop you from using your abilities, ultimately it's still a shooter and left clicking doesn't become less effective. The last thing we want is to feel completely powerless.
That said, I love the buffer role ideas you shared! (Especially if we can stick all of them onto Mirage) Here's hoping that we get plenty of fun new supports down the line!
Here's a wild question, not to derail the conversation, but with "increasing ally ability to perceive the enemy", could you argue that Recon heroes are also support heroes in a funny hat? Because I would.
@EA_QueenBeeI would say yes Recon provide a sort of support role in and of itself, one that fits the roll of providing information to the team. However as we have pathfinder, recon is not necessarily exclusive to providing sight but also potentially movement. Pathfinder is classified on the wiki as a "forward scout". The idea kind of being that he could go ahead, see if anyone's around, then provide zipline back to team from where he is (assuming height or needed traversal).
I agree with you on it being tough to find balance in debuff rolls, as you want people to have fun, so unless the debuff gives satisfaction to the user and a moderate to minimal amount of "rage" to the opposing team it would be hard to find that equalizer. Caustics gas has been an incredibly difficult debuff to balance I imagine, with power being added and removed repeatedly, and its still in a state where "high rank good plays, low rank steamrolled by experienced players that ignore gas".
At one point I wondered if it wouldn't have been better to swap his tactical and ultimate, allowing caustic to setup a large gassy environment with a large barrel, requiring setup time for that kind of defence, having it spread out in a larger area over time when activated and it being activated by him Re-Activating his ultimate (A literal, hide the bomb scenario and set it off when needed). Meanwhile he has gas grenades now and can rapidly throw down gas grenades to lockdown area's or assault enemies (I mean his character art does show him carrying more of those than barrels).
However you could also argue that a fuse that knows what he's doing aggravates the absolute hell out of enemy teams with constant tactical stickies, accurate grenade lobs, or insane arc sticks and that could and maybe should be the baseline for it. I once destroyed an entire team out of ring as a fuse because I managed to appropriately place all my abilities (including the blasted ultimate because luckily stuck the valk before they managed an actual takeoff so it did what it was supposed to for once)
A simple debuff for example could be a dart that hits a singular enemy for a slight momentary slow and 5 pips of damage with multiple charges (lets say 2). Compare valk who can fire a barrage of missiles with what is equivocally a large arc star slow that can brutalize either a single player or hiding team and thats another baseline for a control effect.
- What debuff like effects do players ALREADY tolerate in game.
- Are they fun effects satisfying when they occur
- How can we do something similar in these regards and either replicate the effect differently OR slightly push the envelope and see what can be added next
PS. So, I know you can't speak for leaked content, but I am so hoping Cryo grenades make it into game soon so I can have more fun with fuse.
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