Get rid of aim assist
get rid of the aim assist for console there is no point in it at all.
Forum Discussion
@SolitaryMassacre dude that's the point - you can't compare controller player vs M&K.
To be able to deduct how much one input is better than the other you would need like a unified, all approved godplayer who has exactly the same skill level on both inputs or clone the same person with the same traits and let one play only with one input method and then face them off in 1v1.
Google how experiments on animals are done - there is a freaking catalogue of animals you can choose who are genetically modified and grown to conclude those experiments and even then results might be inaccurate. Now you are talking about comparing "average" players.
What is average then for you? 1000 or 10000h, which rank, how many kills, what k/d, how many badges, what ratio of playtime, what type of games player has played pubs/arenas/ranked etc... there is no such thing as average here :D
The only conclusion you can make is exactly what was said in the video - you match a controller player vs M&K and see how many mid/close range fights he/she wins on average given that's the distance AA kicks in.
Your argument about the input is also flawed - put the mouse on high DPI e.g. I play on 3900 for various reasons that give me an advantage in this game, and draw a straight line with it in Paint. Good luck! Here is me trying and applying the theory on how to make a precise horizontal movement with a mouse: https://prnt.sc/1xluv5t
Another experiment we could do - enable AA on M&K and then see how it goes ๐
People just want to make things equal where it is not possible.
Yes, controller overall is considered to be disadvantageous for FPS games, but so is lower refresh rate monitors, lower spec PC hardware, not ergonomic chairs and tables, lack of space on the table that forces a player to play with high sense etc. And instead of trying to close this gap, we should just admit the fact and leave it there.
Otherwise, we might as well involve a system where players send in to Apex their setup and hardware specs and Apex applies AA per user depending on how much he/she is ahead or trails average setup.
Come on man!
To be able to deduct how much one input is better than the other you would need like a unified, all approved godplayer who has exactly the same skill level on both inputs or clone the same person with the same traits and let one play only with one input method and then face them off in 1v1.
Google how experiments on animals are done - there is a freaking catalogue of animals you can choose who are genetically modified and grown to conclude those experiments and even then results might be inaccurate. Now you are talking about comparing "average" players.
What is average then for you? 1000 or 10000h, which rank, how many kills, what k/d, how many badges, what ratio of playtime, what type of games player has played pubs/arenas/ranked etc... there is no such thing as average here :D
The only conclusion you can make is exactly what was said in the video - you match a controller player vs M&K and see how many mid/close range fights he/she wins on average given that's the distance AA kicks in.
Your argument about the input is also flawed - put the mouse on high DPI e.g. I play on 3900 for various reasons that give me an advantage in this game, and draw a straight line with it in Paint. Good luck! Here is me trying and applying the theory on how to make a precise horizontal movement with a mouse: https://prnt.sc/1xluv5t
Another experiment we could do - enable AA on M&K and then see how it goes ๐
People just want to make things equal where it is not possible.
Yes, controller overall is considered to be disadvantageous for FPS games, but so is lower refresh rate monitors, lower spec PC hardware, not ergonomic chairs and tables, lack of space on the table that forces a player to play with high sense etc. And instead of trying to close this gap, we should just admit the fact and leave it there.
Otherwise, we might as well involve a system where players send in to Apex their setup and hardware specs and Apex applies AA per user depending on how much he/she is ahead or trails average setup.
Come on man!
@Eshshshss
Reply to #14:
I turn it back on because it also turns off melee aim assist and that is absolutely needed. I physically CANNOT aim while punching. My entire thumb is off the joystick.
Reply to #15:
And yes you can compare the two, you just have to use the same ruler.
For example. You get 100 mnk players, 100 controller players, make them each play 100 games (against bots or random players. Bots would be more accurate so each group is getting the same skill level for their enemy). Tally their stats, take the top 5 from each group, make them play each other.
But for the record, I never "bashed" aim assist for being not good. I just claim it is not as good as people are saying it is. They use it like its some magical god mode that will make every single controller player land their shots.
But, I have posted another thread where I agree that changing aim assist would be helpful. I personally would LOVE to have an aim slowdown not an aim assist. I honestly doubt mnk players would like aim assist. I hear them complain about it in PVE games xD
In regards to your input argument - "Your argument about the input is also flawed - put the..." These are SETTINGS that YOU can control. I cannot increase my joystick range. My joystick can only go from 0 to 1 in a set amount of space. I cannot do anything about that. Yes I can adjust settings, but the controller is still limiting me. So having a high dpi is an option/choice you get to have. I understand desk space, but that is also something that can be changed. Its a CHOICE you have as an mnk player. My joystick cannot change. It is set by the manufacturers. Not to mention, you can set your mouse to a lower dpi, and flick the mouse half way across the desk to move fast. My range of sensitivity on a joystick is nowhere near that of a mouse. Also, going in a straight line with a mouse takes practice. There are people that can literally remove all recoil from the guns in apex using their mouse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8_vqOo9dHw aint no way in HELLL anyone can make a circle that tight with a joystick xD so in your words.. COME ON MAN :D
Reply to #14:
I turn it back on because it also turns off melee aim assist and that is absolutely needed. I physically CANNOT aim while punching. My entire thumb is off the joystick.
Reply to #15:
And yes you can compare the two, you just have to use the same ruler.
For example. You get 100 mnk players, 100 controller players, make them each play 100 games (against bots or random players. Bots would be more accurate so each group is getting the same skill level for their enemy). Tally their stats, take the top 5 from each group, make them play each other.
But for the record, I never "bashed" aim assist for being not good. I just claim it is not as good as people are saying it is. They use it like its some magical god mode that will make every single controller player land their shots.
But, I have posted another thread where I agree that changing aim assist would be helpful. I personally would LOVE to have an aim slowdown not an aim assist. I honestly doubt mnk players would like aim assist. I hear them complain about it in PVE games xD
In regards to your input argument - "Your argument about the input is also flawed - put the..." These are SETTINGS that YOU can control. I cannot increase my joystick range. My joystick can only go from 0 to 1 in a set amount of space. I cannot do anything about that. Yes I can adjust settings, but the controller is still limiting me. So having a high dpi is an option/choice you get to have. I understand desk space, but that is also something that can be changed. Its a CHOICE you have as an mnk player. My joystick cannot change. It is set by the manufacturers. Not to mention, you can set your mouse to a lower dpi, and flick the mouse half way across the desk to move fast. My range of sensitivity on a joystick is nowhere near that of a mouse. Also, going in a straight line with a mouse takes practice. There are people that can literally remove all recoil from the guns in apex using their mouse. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8_vqOo9dHw aint no way in HELLL anyone can make a circle that tight with a joystick xD so in your words.. COME ON MAN :D
- @SolitaryMassacre But you can't find a top-5 of controller players. We're all gonna hit the same amount of shots because we actually don't aim, it's software that does it all. I don't even have to touch R2, I just have to think "shoot" and the software 1-mags anyone anywhere on the map.
@SolitaryMassacre
Ok, you take 100 vs 100 players - say top5 M&K show twice as good results already on bots vs top5 controller players. Does the experiment continue? How do you ensure that these top 5 or 100 or whatever players can be called "average"?
Dude, there is no common ground here and so many variables e.g. for M&K top 100 preds come around, and for controller just 100 randoms. End of the story, the results will have 0 links to the input device!The suggested way is not that far off just cloning two people and locking them into a room with either controller or M&K.
As for loving aim assist on M&K - if that would be true there would not be such thing as Xim, and I somehow feel they are doing just fine as a business in part thanks to Apex and people who like to have AA on their M&K as well ๐ Not to mention more sophisticated software developers who provide AA for everyone via software.
Again this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F8_vqOo9dHw - dude if someone does it in the game they have waaaaay lower hit results as this dude. This video is just a good cover-up for people who just solve recoil issue with no-recoil macro and then just say "i just jiggle my mouse, sue me".
Do this type of hit in game on moving target and I will give kudos to you for it, until then stop spreading this bs fake news type of material, unlike in youtube so this sh does not get to other people feeds.
Finally about input and should be "pay/suffer" for it:
I was playing on a small, unsuitable table for years, my mousepad was like 15x15 cm and I had to use crazy high sens. Did I know about low sense advantages, bigger mousepads - yes, but I paid for it by not being able to afford a more suitable table.
Did I have Logitech g pro superlight or alike before - no, does it help - yes, did I pay for the fact before - yes.
Bringing that to an extreme - if you feel limited by your controller, invest in PC and M&K as it is just a matter of money but the fact remains the same - want to be more competitive, invest money in it. Instead, Apex introduces AA which is even free - not a bad thing per se but it creates an unequal situation where controller players have a free stuff that (greatly) improves their competitive power.@CCbathwaterSame arguments a cheating MnK player would make trying to sell you that his aimassist doesnt do much and its all him...
- @RevMainPls The difference being that he can aim straight into the sky and his bullets just hit anyway, as opposed to AA where you don't even have to push a button, of course. The PC cheater literally only has like 0.1% of what controller AA gives you. I'd suggest PC cheaters just switch to controller, it's much better and not against ToS. ๐คก
- @CCbathwater What are you talking about? you realize that there exist legit AA settings for MnK that adjusts your aim? what you are talking about are some ragesettings of aimbots...
- @CCbathwater That is the biggest BS i have ever heard. The software does nothing near aim for you. It assists it does not do.
- @Eshshshss You take 100 randoms from each group. You make them play against bots, this tallies their ability. You define average by selecting the mean performing players, or you can select the top 5. Its really not that hard to test. Literally like you get a score on how many kills/damage/assists you do, and that turns into a percent, anywhere in the 75 percentile range is an "average". And yes other factors come into play, never denied that. But in terms of aiming, mnk will triumph over controller all day every day.
And I said some people complain about AA in PVE games, some may like it who knows.
And yeah that video is definitely doable when you play. Just practice with it a bit. Its how I got better at controlling the recoil for all the guns on controller. Literally would go 20 games with <500 dams cause I am learning a new gun, however, yes a lot of MNK players use macros that are "legit" cause its from their gaming software.
About your "pay/suffer": Its really not about pay/suffer. I have literally played on my bed (not apex but another game). The point I was trying to make is mouse gives you way more options than the confides of a controller.
And actually I do play on PC, but I have to use a controller cause I will be horrible. I have done aim trainers, and my aim is freaking impressive with a mouse. Despite being left handed though, I cannot get my left hand to push the proper buttons... its kind of funny tbh xD
All in all - my argument still stands that AA is not so OP that MNK players need to be complaining like they are. They literally preach that it is doing everything for them, which is obviously not the case.
Can AA use some modification/adjustments? Hell yeah. I personally would love to just have target slow down instead of tracking. I would also love to be able to adjust the slow down percentage. It would also be helpful if I could adjust the strength of AA, on PC its 0.4, I would love if I could turn it down to 0.2 or something. AA could also have a timer, you get AA on 0.5 seconds of shooting. Once that timer is up, AA is off. So yes, there are MANY things that could happen to help adjust AA. I am in no way against changing it. I am only arguing that people who claim it to be OP are delusional based on the facts I have shared before (ie, AA cannot and does not aim for you, user intervention is a must. It does not make a "bad player good", nor "an average player awesome" etc.) I Personally will play say today, do great. Come back tomorrow, do horrible. And when I look back why - its cause I missed every shot I made. So i find it very difficult to believe that AA is as OP as some claim - and that is all I am every trying to talk about. - @SolitaryMassacre ty Glad you like my MnK player impression.
Btw be careful or they'll pull out another Snipedown video on you. ๐ฎ @SolitaryMassacredude your aim might be good in game but you are missing the point I am making - short version here:
If all people know that controller sucks versus mouse, same as lower hertz monitor or different pannel type sucks vs TN 240+ Hz for gaming, same as best mice in the market give instant precision boost etc. The controller should not be an exception and players playing on it should "pay/suffer" the consequences.
That's how life works, e.g. noone gives you extra money because you fail to get a job that pays the average salary. Yet in this case Respawn does just that.- @Eshshshss I mean life doesn't have to be like that but I'll keep the philosophical chat down in here xD
I get what you are saying, and I disagree due to what I said - aim assist does not make a player. It is not going to take someone who is average and make them pro, etc. Secondly, the things you mentioned (high refresh rate monitor, best mice, etc) those don't keep you from being able to play the game. Where not using a controller does. Again, I don't mind changing aim assist and I think it should be 0.4 across the board. I personally don't like it and would like a weaker aim assist, like I mentioned before, but I don't account for everyone.
If you took aim assist off completely, there is a large base that I would bet my money on to just simply not play. And why would you want someone not to play?
Which is why I said what I did before - players who complain about aim assist, are just salty they got beat by a controller player. The only way I would be on their side is if this happened literally 100% of the time. But being a controller player myself, I can promise you it doesn't if not even 1% of the time. In the end, even with aim assist, you still miss more of your shots than on MNK.
My final stance on this is to allow the user to adjust aim assist or simply give an aim slowdown only option. I also think it should be 0.4 across all platforms. Not sure why it isn't tbh @SolitaryMassacresorry didn't get your point about monitors and controllers not allowing to play the game.
I don't want people to quit playing the game, I just want to have a fairground and option to choose for each player meaning:
- M&K should be able to opt-out from playing vs controller players
- Matchmaking taking into an account input device
- AND MOST IMPORTANTLY Respawn not trying to close the gap between M&K and controller via AA that introduces a very high risk of hackers exploiting that on all platforms - what we see now in the community, especially diamond+ lobbies
I really don't mind AA being active or optional (on/off) when console players play against each other or face off with a PC player who uses a controller.
Yet I don't see it worth being available in the current format, where it can be used on M&K and hacks, just because the game can't distinguish between when it is legit and when it is used as game exploit.If we extend this logic, now the game might be playable on Switch and other platforms, so should we not set max resolution limits so that PC players also play on 12" or smaller screens?
Same as recoil and recoil scripts - again in my opinion a similar case here Repsawn at first introduced recoil and then introduced legit, undetectable way to counter it giving many players an unfair and huge advantage be it learning patterns, jitter (still not buying it), no recoil macro, strike pack (I heard that someone affected recoil as well).- @SolitaryMassacre Not watching + not reading allat + it aimed for you in every kill + L controller dog.
- @DJ_Stink_Bangers Ah yes you didn't provide any time stamps. Thank you for proving my point ๐คฃ
People like you are simply arguing for the sake of arguing. You can't even argue a point or support it.
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