4 years ago

Ranked Arena discourages play leading to a player decline vicious circle

Ranked Arena, as it is now, is in an inevitable circle of decline. I say that as someone who has been grinding the mode and as such have a lot of experience with the updated ranked system for Arenas. It's disingenuous to label the Arena system as Ranked when matchmaking is not based on skill, or even your hidden MMR, but instead on queue time. The hidden MMR seems to only be a determinant of AP gain or loss, whilst the opponents you face are drawn from the pool of players available RIGHT NOW. In the ranked BR players are matched according to skill, Platinum vs Platinum, Diamond Vs Diamond, with ranks displayed. This rank is concealed in ranked Arena because of the way matchmaking is set up. Rather than have players wait for any sensible length of time to play against equally "ranked" opposition, the system seems to pull from whoever is closest in waiting time.

This is most obviously seen when you find yourself matched against the same players again and again, and even more painfully obvious when those players turn out to be Arena Predators. Hiding ranks is ineffective when people actually stream and ranks can be verified. It becomes painfully obvious that matchmaking is ...problematic. And what happens is that people who play at off peak times, solo or even just because the system doesn't really care, well, those people lose and their personal MMR dictates that they should no longer gain points of any real value. And let's be clear, the MMR is determined unfairly (or perhaps let's just say that it's not skill based) because matches are being played that are one sided from the off...there is no kind of protection from people who clearly belong way above you in Arena ranking and if you lose (which you will because you shouldn't be having these face offs in the first place) you are deemed worse, instead of playing at your level. (Forgive another analogy but a green belt in judo shouldn't ever be expected to beat a black belt, and it's not a negative mark against them if they lose, but if they lose against another green belt then it's a much better indicator of ability)

I know making a complex ranking and matchmaking system is difficult, especially in the less popular mode, but right now if players are losing incentive to play a mode (diminishing AP returns in whatever part due to poor skill based matchmaking) they become disgruntled and disincentivised. People should absolutely be penalised for losing, but they system now is deliberately opaque, hiding ranks and pitching all ranks against each other. It almost feels like a roulette who you'll be facing next in terms of skill and that's not fun. And that means fewer people will find the mode appealing, making the matchmaking struggle harder to equate skill levels which in turn makes the mode less rewarding and less of a ranking mode.

Please, if you want to keep the mode working, do something quickly before the only people left playing are the very best of the best who are at that top skill level. Right now it's really not working for anyone (the Pred team that I had to play against quickly realised the inequality of matchup and started only using Mozambiques to fight us) and unlike in the BR, where you always feel that you can claw your RP back with a win, in the arena, once you have lost a few unfair matchups there doesn't feel like any real way back...and if that's the case why even play?

gameplay discussion

30 Replies

SelfNonSelf
4 years ago
Good talk...I guess Ranked Arena is doomed then.
Absolussy
Seasoned Novice
4 years ago
I agree 100 %. I was excited when they announced new mode for the game. And when they implemented it, I played it. Because it was something new, everybody tried it. I was looking forward to ranked system in arena. But the excitement dropped soon after.
It SHOULDN'T be called ranked! It is not based by skill AT ALL! If you are being paired against three stacking preds (while being gold lobby) it is definitely not balanced. Also getting points based by hidden MMR.. I am being part of Apex community for fair amount of time and most of the people I have spoken to refuse play Arena Ranked. It is totally random who you fight against, you don't even see their ranks. I would much rather wait for matchmaking for few mins to find fair matchmaking and having actually chance to climb up through ranks and measure skills with similar skilled people. I am not new to the game, I made it to diamond rank in Arena last split.. but keep playing like this makes no sense.

If you want to give yourself a stroke, play arena ranked and even better as solo q.
I wish they would change how the system works, because like this, there will be no players at all and matchmaking will be even worse (if it's even possible).
Axs5626Sxa5001
4 years ago
@SelfNonSelf

I don’t play much ranked Arenas. I played my placement matches and it put me in Plat.

When I play arena pubs, I LEGITIMATELY only play against Masters or Preds. It’s pretty much the strongest SBMM I have ever seen. I’m waiting (on average) for about 7 minutes for a match. On console.
SelfNonSelf
4 years ago
I can't make any comment on console lobbies as that's something i have no experience with. And of course your observations and mine are anecdotal. However, simply searching a little reveals the imbalance, and the simple fact that ranks are hidden is indicative that something is not quite as transparent as it should be.

The matchmaking in Ranked Arenas is not fit for purpose, as it is right now, for most players. This can be fixed simply by using your assigned rank for something other than...well it would seem nothing. The simple fact that there is no acknowledgement or reply about this kind of makes the mode redundant, with it not being a measure of skill at all, merely luck and the time at which you play. Ask anyone whether they'd be happy to wait longer for a fairer system and the answer will always be yes.
Midnight9746
Hero+
4 years ago
@SelfNonSelf I personally felt like this mode shouldn't have gotten a ranked mode, for the exact reason of it being unbalanced and whatnot. Matchamking over all, is terrible.

@Absolussy I got plat last season and then stopped playing arenas for the most part, as legit my teammates were almost always bot players, and the enemy teams were smurphs 90% of the time (below level 30, with 4k damage, 20 kill badges, etc.), some used wall hacks, some used aimbot, etc. You can instantly weigh the skill of both teams in your head, and within a split second, know that your team is way out classed by the enemy team.

@Axs5626Sxa5001 Strange... I've seen PC players win all 10 of their arena matches, and they only get placed into Gold, never into Plat. Its interesting that console is just given a plat rank status for wining their 10 games.
OldTreeCreeper
Hero+
4 years ago
@Axs5626Sxa5001 that would drive me bonkers to have to wait 7 minutes for a match.
SunlessMeridian
4 years ago
@OldTreeCreeperWould waiting 5 minutes for a BALANCED match really drive you crazy? Rather than playing 10 minutes of a one sided poorly matched game, why would waiting for a game that was fun be so bad? I honestly think most people would rather wait for a game than be put into the first available options in a very short waiting period. Waiting 5 minutes with access to the firing range would be fine.
OldTreeCreeper
Hero+
4 years ago
@SunlessMeridian in this medern era of hotdrop henry, yes it would. Some games only last a few seconds. Fortnite has no waiting periods and the matches seem very balanced to me.
Axs5626Sxa5001
4 years ago
@SunlessMeridian

I mean, it does sort of make sense that the algorithm wants to keep matches as balanced as possible, but waiting that long for a casual match does not afford further incentive to continue playing Arenas. My time is becoming more and more limited these days and sometimes (not all the time) I want a casual experience and want it fairly quickly.

I think Apex needs some sort of non-SBMM fast paced mode for players to just drop into— perhaps as a warm up for the regular modes. Stats don’t even have to count in said mode.

I just want a mode that doesn’t make me feel like I’m in league tournament. Constantly playing your equal and stressing out every single moment you engage in an activity is just not sustainable for mental health.
SelfNonSelf
4 years ago
@Axs5626Sxa5001 I think that you're missing the point of my lead post here. My main issue is with RANKED games...these are the closest to competitive we have and are not supposed to be casual. Casual games do not grade your performance afterwards whereas ranked games do, and when that rank is determined in a haphazard and poorly ordered way this leads to dissatisfaction and player drop out. As this goes on fewer people play and it becomes worse.
Apex needs some form of SBMM...there's no argument against that, and at off peak hours that becomes harder to balance in a 60 person lobby. For regular casual play the matchmaking is fast paced and whilst it's clearly balanced more towards engagement than skill (which is a shame as it makes a mockery of trying to improve) the waiting time is fast. Constantly playing someone who is your EQUAL is fine...it's not fine when three stacks are put against solo players or when the skill balance is all over the place. Ranked Arena should not have this problem as it's only looking for 3 people of equal skill out of everyone queuing for one match (instead of another 57 people). The fact that ranks are hidden and it's clearly unfair in terms of matching skill is not really in question. Anyone who plays for a while can see what's happening.
In Ranked BR the RP rewards are such that you ALWAYS can stand a chance of getting good gains, there's always a chance to get lucky. In Ranked Arena once you get a few poorly balanced matches (on several occasions peppered with wins) you will be stuck getting +12 then -12...then there's no point in playing further....there is none of the instant win feeling you can get out of BR. It feels like as it is now Arena is doomed to fail in it's Ranked state because it's so poorly balanced and scored.