Re: Ttk changes apex legends

I'll give you one example of a game that's survived that requires high skill, counter strike, so saying a game that only caters for players with good aim won't survive is just wrong.

The fact this game has been such a huge success shows that. 

No need to change the time to kill, especially as they are taking feedback from all the top streamers and influencers on twitch who all say ttk is in a good place right now. I didn't even think of this being an issue until I stumbled across this post and was shocked it was even being mentioned. The game feels so good, what's the point in having armour and different levels of armour if you want the ttk so low there will be no real difference between no armour and legendary armour 

Counter Strike is an anolmoly because it came from a time where PC gaming was at it's infancy. So it's gameplay carries through.

This is a BR game that is going to draw players in from all over.  Especially 1st Person purists who don't like Fortnite and want better gunplay.

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@xkillalicious1 wrote:

No need to change the time to kill, especially as they are taking feedback from all the top streamers and influencers on twitch who all say ttk is in a good place right now. I didn't even think of this being an issue until I stumbled across this post and was shocked it was even being mentioned.

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Once again Streamers opnions are very biased.  They have an agenda to get views and literelly get paid for playing games.

This isn't the only post mentioning this tyake a look around.  As more play you're going to see more complaints about it.  Time will tell but I believe Respawn is going to have to make a statement.

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@xkillalicious1 wrote:

The game feels so good, what's the point in having armour and different levels of armour if you want the ttk so low there will be no real difference between no armour and legendary armour 

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For the most part it's not about Armor values as that's understood to give an advantage.  It's really about getting a clear drop on someone and there being too much time for them to make a counter.  There's a very thin line between beng able to affectively counter when you were clearly taken by surprise.  Destiny 2 faled hard Y1 when they made the TTK too high. This included streamer feedback of you want to go there.

Good chat and thank you for leaving the low brow stuff behind.

I'm sorry but I've just never experienced a situation where I've got the drop on someone and they managed to counter me...however I have had times where someone would shot me from behind as I instantly slide and manoeuvre after the first shot and return fire quickly and have good aim so I'm sometimes able to counter them...it brings in a needed skill gap that so many games just lack now a days. Don't make all games easy, then what is left for people who are actually mechanically good? You take away that advantage and just want a game to be about brains then play chess. 

Don't get me wrong, I like games that require brains, I like games that require mechanical skills and I love games that require both. I'm just really annoyed because the trend in the last 5+ years of gaming is to make them require as little skill as possible so that the less gifted can falsely feel better than they are. There are many games out there that require no skill, please leave me one that actually require you to aim for more than half a second at someone

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@xkillalicious1 wrote:

I'm sorry but I've just never experienced a situation where I've got the drop on someone and they managed to counter me.

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Literally just watched it happen to my son.  AND the enemy was damaged a bit.  Walk around a corner (With the dude not facing him) and unloaded an SMG only to run out of clip.  Dude turned shotgunned him.  It's pretty sad gameplay IMO.  There's no skill happening there.

Now, ranged gunplay?  Sure, bring the Aim skill factor there no douubt.  CQC

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@xkillalicious1 wrote:

.it brings in a needed skill gap that so many games just lack now a days. Don't make all games easy, then what is left for people who are actually mechanically good? You take away that advantage and just want a game to be about brains then play chess. 

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Again your over-reacting to my complaint.  I don't want an 'easy' game my friend.  But it needs to make sense. I actually think most of the mechanics in this game are great and innovative.  High TTk is not innovative and it will alienate players.  Mark my words.

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@xkillalicious1 wrote:

Don't get me wrong, I like games that require brains, I like games that require mechanical skills and I love games that require both.

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But see here's the thing.  The 'brains' part about a game like this is tactics and flanking.  Positioning and use of abilities.  That's all great and fine until the dude you're shooting at can turn and dome you while underfire.  Or when you're clip ran out even though you hit 95% of your shots (expecting 100% shots to kill is bad develpment).

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@xkillalicious1 wrote:

I'm just really annoyed because the trend in the last 5+ years of gaming is to make them require as little skill as possible so that the less gifted can falsely feel better than they are. There are many games out there that require no skill, please leave me one that actually require you to aim for more than half a second at someone

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Again,  Misinterpreting my goal.  Destiny (that I've played for 4 years) has become a no-skill game.  Relying too much on movement and 1HK weapons.

Fortnite is NOT about gunskill.  It's about Building to protect yourself from mid range fire THEN it's about 1HK weapons.  Awful.

I'm a Battlefield vet (PC) and am currently playing BFV on PS4.  BF has always been a good mix of skilled gunplay and "brains".  Position, flank, supporession.

This game has those things BUT when the killing actually takes to long you nullify strategy.

Again you keep bringing up the 1HK weapons in every game in a thread about TTK

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@LoganX1 wrote:

However people need to stop assuming that it's bad players complaining.  It's quite elitist.

We have a varies skill set of players in my house and frinds we play with and WE ALL feel the TTK is too high.  From what I see in the forums it's a mixed bag here as well and it would be bad for Reapawn to not acknowledge it.

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@xkillalicious1 wrote:

A slightly higher ttk means you actually need to be able to maintain and track your aim on them, rather than (like cod) just hip fire spray and luckily hit 2-3 bullets that get you the kill.

miss shots.

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I disagree with this statement.  Because in reality then you are scewing the game to cater to high level players only. A game cannot surveive let alone compete with other games with only top tier players.  Those player will ALWAYS have a skill advantage but a game needs to function and be fun for all tiers.

We'll see what happens.

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Just find it funny that first you say that it's not just bad players complaining, but then you say the game should be fun for everyone (bad players). The gaming industry has been releasing the worst set of games for decades now. Every time we get a game that's a tad competitive, we get responses from "everyone" players like yourself, which definitely are not bad players 😇, who try to make the game be as casual as every other on the market. Has it ever occurred to you that maybe this games popularity has a lot to do with it being more competitive than other BR in the market? Maybe the TTK has a lot to do with it.

Again, there are plenty of other BRs out there, in fact, pretty much all of them, have it so when you're shot, you die instantly. Apex Legends wants to try something new and they clearly did something right with their popularity. If you want casual friendly gameplay and instant killings, go play fortnite. Seriously, you're the target market for that game.

So basically you want shotguns to be 3 shot in CQC and a SMG to one shot and basically double the TTK

I'm sorry to keep saying it, but I completely disagree,  he's not hitting those shots then, I can storm a building on my own behind an entire squad and out manoeuvre them and out shoot them to be able to wipe the entire squad with little to no help from my team. Showing that the ttk is not too high if I can out play 3 people on my own. Destiny 2 was way too high for at release I do agree as it was mainly focused on team shooting alot like halo to focus team shots on the same player to down quicker etc. 

But with this it's really not that high if you have a weapon that does 18 damage per shot, and you're against someone with mid tier armour, they have 100 health and 50 armour = 150, divide this by 18 damage per shot = 9 shots to kill NOT 2 clips worth, of the average clip size is 18 that means you're missing over 50% of your shots. 

Again, it's not the ttk that's the issue, it's the ability of the player who's complaining about it 

I appreciate the chat but it's an agree to disagree situation. Which is ok.  

Personally of your wiping a team in that situation then I question the other teams skills not yours. No offense. 

I will say with certainty that I myself, not my son, am still getting used to the BR formula. Finding and equipping the best gear. I'm sore that for me that's a big learning curve. 

Thanks for the input and chat. I can only hope that Respawn at least makes a statement about it. 

LoganX

Can I just give you one stream to watch for one game.

On twitch, watch shroud, just for one game, that's all it will take for you to see how quickly a pro player with amazing aim can kill people, proving the problem is with the player not the game. 

I'll leave the debate at that but please just do me that one thing and watch him for one game

When I get the chance I will. But...I'm not really interested in how a pro can kill because they always will. 

They play games for a living and what they can accomplish has no bearing on the average player. 

It tells me nothing about true ttk because they can always overcome it. 

That's now how the real world works. 

And...I should never have to go up against players like that. Why would that be fun or a learning experience?

No that's just your horrible take on those people's statements. 

That is exactly how the real world works, if you're not good at something, someone better than you will get the job. You improve by playing better competition not by limiting your opponents just your own standard. 

Imagine football leagues saying the top 4 teams are only allowed to play against each other because it's not enjoyable for the lower teams to get ripped apart every time they play them. Doesn't happen, I love playing better players as it's the only way I get better when they make me see my mistakes etc. If, when I started gaming, I only played against my caliber of player back then, I'd be no where near as good as I am now.

Time to kill is the same for everyone regardless of being pro or not, the fact remains I'm not a pro and can kill people in less than a clip and have never been turned on by someone who I've had the drop on, maybe your perception of what's happening on screen isn't actually what's happening? Maybe only one shot from 4 are hitting but because the hit markers stay up for around the same time as it takes to fire 4 shots you take that 1 hit marker as meaning you hit every shot in that spray when in actual fact you hit 1 of 4. I don't know, but again, it's a perfect time to kill, and for the person saying ttk on Titanfall was perfect, this game is called apex legends, not Titanfall 2. 

Exactly, there's a reason why this is already a much more popular game than Titanfall ever was

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@xkillalicious1 wrote:

I'll give you one example of a game that's survived that requires high skill, counter strike, so saying a game that only caters for players with good aim won't survive is just wrong.

The fact this game has been such a huge success shows that. 

No need to change the time to kill, especially as they are taking feedback from all the top streamers and influencers on twitch who all say ttk is in a good place right now. I didn't even think of this being an issue until I stumbled across this post and was shocked it was even being mentioned. The game feels so good, what's the point in having armour and different levels of armour if you want the ttk so low there will be no real difference between no armour and legendary armour 

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Those top streamers who are fine with this exceptionally  high TTK are not representative samples of the 90% of FPS players (who are paying) for two reasons:

1st: those top streamers have exceptionnally pro aim and manoeuvring skills and a complete life of practice and/or very likely many uses exceptionally sophisticated silent aimbots in the background.

2nd: they tend to play only with their similarly top player friends in a squad not with random noobs or average players

Due to these two factors their own interest is not to make a game fun and enjoyable something for the 90% but for themselves... 

TTK is Apex is clearly insanely long. Try TF2 or Arma or PUBG or BF or BF HC where a few hits kills and most of the cases who spots the other and opens fire first wins that fight. In Apex revive and respawn are also insanely easy options so if you mix it with insanely long TTK that is uber insane...

@888BlackShine there are a lot of games out there why do they all have to be the same?  Seems like this high speed movement based shooter has a good following.  Here is hoping to hide and seek .5 movement speed comes out in fall 2019 for you.  Verity is good.

"It's really about getting a clear drop on someone and there being too much time for them to make a counter."

If you.get the drop.on someone and they can counter and kill you, you aren't hitting your shots and aren't hitting head shots. Simple as that. I've been killed many times with no chance to react.