Re: Ttk changes apex legends

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@DukeSkygawker wrote:

Apex is definitely the least tactical major BR game out there...

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Best description of what's happening I've seen.  

High ttk is not tactical. It.makes mid to low G range engagements worthless for killing. 

Awesome post 

Camping or slowly moving so you always see the enemy before they see you and get an easy kill - "Tactics"

I'm sorry guys you don't even know the meaning of the word tactics. Anything can be "tactical"; Run and gun IS a tactic the same way that camping is one. 

It's fair to say that this game is more arcade than Arma and that's great. Because when you get 3 partied you have a chance to shot back. 

I read people bragging about how they play HC and the "pros" friends are leaving due the lack of tactics. but here's the deal: There's tactics in the game, a properly executed ambush can and will wipe a team before they can react. But you need the know how and arguably have the aim to back the plan.

Yet the "tactical" people don't seen to realize that the "tactics" you use in others games will need to be adapted to work here. This is not Arma where the fact that you can see the enemy before he sees you means he is dead.

Being tactical is seeing the situation and learning how to adapt to it. That's the most basic thing anyone that actually knows anything about tactics will learn. (otherwise you try to "tactically" flank an enemy that waits you through a choke point)

Yet here we are, a bunch of "tactical" players that doesn't realize that the problem is their approach to the game at hand, that their "tactics" need to be changed or adapted. But no, they say that there's no "tactic" in this game.

The only players who do not mind high TTK are cheaters. High TTK favors cheaters for obvious reasons.
This also favors the team game and the penalty of lone wolves.
However, not only high TTK is an Apex problem. It is generally a weapon mechanics optimized to force players to play a team game, which is absurdly stupid. And the weapon in Apex Legends is very unbalanced.

- Some weapons have no recoil, some have a huge recoil.
- Some weapons are useless, some are OP.
- Most weapons have extremly low capacity magainzes, some have average or better.
- Sniper rifles have limitation of the shooting speed and extremly high bullet drop.

So what we have now? Wingman is better than Scout and Scout is better than Tripletake becasue this crap can't hit anyone from 50 meters because bullet drop. Nice idea, a energy weapon with extremly high bullet drop, but you can easy spray with Devotion for the horizon and kill someone.

Seems legit. 🤓

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@preyandplay wrote:

However, not only high TTK is an Apex problem. It is generally a weapon mechanics optimized to force players to play a team game, which is absurdly stupid.

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Destiny tried this in D2 Y1 and it failed miserably.  Most players nowadays do not appreciate the 'team-shoot' mentality. They want to make the big plays themselves.

There are other ways to encourage teamwork then doing it artificially with a high TTK.

I'll keep saying it.  High TTK reduces the effectiveness of mid to long range weapons.  When an archetype is rendered useless people move to the ones that kill the quickest.  That's why there such a meta here AND why shotgun use (with camping) is so prevalent. It's why we have the Wingman problem.  People are not going to use weapons that don't work.

@LoganX1 

Did you ever play Quake or enemy territory?

those were both movement based games with long time to kill.  Besides you can kill anyone in 1 seconds with any gun if you land your shots. r99 is devastating the 301 is devastating. r99 is way better then the wing man now.  the r99 does 216 DPS to the body.  Even a  Mozambique can kill some one in 2 shots after drooping in.  Your  problem is not the damage out put it is the movement speed of the players which is flipping fantastic.  This is closer to the games i grew up on Quake and RTCW and enemy territory. Not the slow paced games that came about due to the death of the CRT monitor and poor refresh rates.  We are finally back to 2004 took a long time to get back there but that is progress.  You are going to have a blast when you get up to speed.

 you can dodge bullets via fast movement that's the problem you are having and haven't adjusted to yet.  Movement speed and fast games died when they stopped making CRT monitors.  Now that we have over 100 hrtz again they will return.  

enjoy this video and see what plays are about in this game and why it is so popular.  This is it bro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwplkfIAVLA

I had different situations in the game.

- Once I stood behind a sniper who was not aware of my presence. I fired the entire R-99 magazine in his back and I had to shoot two shots from the Peacekeeper to make him fall.

- I was lurking in Bunkier. At a convenient moment, I went back to the three enemies with Devotion in my hands. I fired at them almost the entire magazine before they killed me. I did not manage to lay down one, shooting them in the back.

These are just two examples, but there are a lot of such situations in Apex Legends. I know it's not CS:GO, but CS:GO is a good example of why low TTK is better than high TTK. In CS:GO you can easily kill someone, but it's easy to die and that's why this game is very team-oriented. If you die, it's good to have someone who refrag your enemy. If you stay alone, you always have the chance to do something. In Apex Legends, in 99% of cases, there is no point in starting a fight with more than one opponent. Even having an element of surprise on your side.
In Apex Legends you have high TTK, and you still have to finish off the opponent. And then look after him, because colleagues can resurrect him.

And cheaters. It does not matter to them, but the high TTK helps them, because before the normal player kills them, they will be able to rip out the whole squad by hitting each time.

@IfReborn 

Giving an example of a weak cheater using an aimbot does not prove the veracity of your words.
Already in the first seconds you can see that he cheats. The crosshair jumps to the model in the most obvious way ...
Try again.

@preyandplay i hate to say that but... that's exactly why we don't want lower ttk, you missed so many shots to not kill someone with a r99. But wanted the kill just because you got lucky.

What they really have to look into is removing the need to aim down sight in close combat and make it more movement based and fluid. Then you can make it so bullets land where I aim without randomness.

@TrueDivinorium i'm not even that good and i have wiped 3 man squads solo. And he is not hacking in that video.  They are out there 5-10% of the players are hacking right now but he is not one.

@IfReborn wrong person? I mean only thing i said was that the dude that needed 1 clip of r99 and 2 peacekeeper shots in a sniper from behind missed alot of shots.

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@TrueDivinorium wrote:

@preyandplay i hate to say that but... that's exactly why we don't want lower ttk, you missed so many shots to not kill someone with a r99. But wanted the kill just because you got lucky.

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The Fact that you think that "unloading a magazine in his back" is missing shots is one of the biggest problems with this community.

Getting the jump on someone like that should be a kill in any game.

@LoganX1 

R-99

Pretty standard SMG that fires quickly and does low damage per bullet but is good if you can land all your shots. This uses light rounds and holds 18 in a magazine.

DESCRIPTION

Rapid-fire automatic SMG.

AVAILABLE SLOTS

• Barrel Attachment Slot
• Optic Attachment Slot
• Mag Attachment Slot
• Stock Attachment Slot

DAMAGE

• Bodyshot: 12 damage, DPS: 216
• Headshot: 18 damage, DPS: 324

18 rounds in a clip base is 216

30 rounds in an extended mag 360

You can take anyone in the game down with a base weapon in 1 second with this gun without even landing a head shot.  I hope they never support an i win button in this game.

@LoganX1 Unloading in his back kills. A r99 does more damage than a purple shielded guy has of health. That plus 2 peacekeeper shot.

The problem here is that he CLEARLY is missing shots, otherwise it would be a kill. But players want lower TTK to kill someone with 1/5 of their magazine.

And the fact that you want having luck be rewarded with a kill shows why lower TTK is horrible. Because it rewards players that are bad. That don't know anything about tactics or aim or anything in fact. they want to convert the luck of getting someone from behind in a kill. And that makes for * gameplay; because suddenly people will camp so potato aim number 3 doesn't have a chance of getting lucky and finding them from behind.

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@TrueDivinorium wrote:

@LoganX1 And the fact that you want having luck be rewarded with a kill shows why lower TTK is horrible. Because it rewards players that are bad. That don't know anything about tactics or aim or anything in fact. they want to convert the luck of getting someone from behind in a kill. And that makes for * gameplay; because suddenly people will camp so potato aim number 3 doesn't have a chance of getting lucky and finding them from behind.

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Why is catching someone unaware "luck"?  I think the 'bad' player in that scenario is the person who got caught with their pants down and they should get killed. That's on them.  Situational awareness and all.  They failed.

You're view of Skill and luck are pretty F'ed up.

It seems you just want the ability to counter someone who caught you unaware made eisier. How is that fair?

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@TrueDivinorium wrote:

@LoganX1But players want lower TTK to kill someone with 1/5 of their magazine.

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And this is CLEARLY you're embellishment of the situation, making assumptions, and spreading mis-information and lies.. That's NOT what people want and you know it.

@LoganX1Because "catching people unaware" in this game means you third partying a squad engaged with another. You already had the advantage of doing damage, and if you are good killing them, but you want more than that. You want a kill no matter what.

In a game like CS taking someone unaware is a thing, because they only have one team to fight against. In this game it's mostly luck. Even because if you got them unaware because of your "skills" i don't know how you was so unskilled that allowed said person to win the gun fight.

And stop that *, i'm tired of you saying it's not what people want. That's exactly what you want.

In the WORST case scenario the enemy had a purple armour and effective 200 health.

1 R99 clip is 216 damage.

2 peacekeeper pellets is 220 of damage.

436

With all that you killed the guy twice.

"It seems you just want the ability to counter someone who caught you unaware made easier. How is that fair?"

You already have the advantage of my position and started the fight with more health than me; you WASTED the chance to straight up kill me, and you think I want things easier?

You keep that * that "no one wants a easy kill". Them stop saying you want a free kill because you got someone with their back to you. 


PS: And i will make something very clear: If you have the "skill" to flank someone and catch them unaware you have the "skill" to kill said person and wouldn't be complaining about getting beaten when you already have such a huge advantage. Else you just got lucky.

I don't know what game you are playing but i tend to die a lot of times in under 2 seconds.  Not compelling considering it takes 3-5 min to get into a game.  time to die is already supper fast if you know what you are doing.

You just want it to be supper fast if you don't know what you are doing too.  loot boxes and lotto deaths.  Gaming in 2019

LoL.

Well, can't wait to see the player pool numbers by the Summer if this continues.

Game will be either dead or just Pros playing.  If you guys are good with that then more power to you.

I still say that the conversation is too big for Respawn to ignore.  If they do they will continue to lose players.

BFV: Firestorm is coming this month and the gameplay already looks better than Apex.

"The problem here is that he CLEARLY is missing shots, otherwise it would be a kill. But players want lower TTK to kill someone with 1/5 of their magazine."

You are looking for excuses for by force and you are lying to reality by matching it to your theories.
I stayed behind the player for a few seconds. I measured and emptied the entire magazine in his back. I have not missed a single time. Before the enemy could know what was going on, I managed to change my weapon and finish it the moment he turned around.
You can not miss it by standing less than half a meter behind the target.
But of course you know better, forcibly looking for excuses and not being able to accept reality.
They talk the same foolishly when I complain that I have recently been getting one full series with Devotion from a distance and I'm falling. And what do I hear? Of course, "git gud".
Pathetic.

For you, gentlemen, specialists, I have not played since yesterday, and in CS: GO I did not have a low rank at all ...

@preyandplay 

Listen, i will not discuss with you in these terms because i don't want to be banned from the forums because of you.

But there's people that can eliminate enemies from over 100 meters with a r301 in a single clip, i have seen it, i have friends that can do it, i've seen streamers that can do it. Yet i cannot do it.

What i CAN do is one clip people with the R99, it's something that normally i can do. But sometimes the potato takes control and i miss easy kills. 

I cannot get my head around the devotion, but the Havok i can kill people with a single clip from a considerable distance.

I also have seen cheaters and a lot of shenanigans in the game, i would argue that a HUGE streamer right now is using cheats. But if i cannot do something i don't assume that said thing is impossible.

But here we are, you saying that you are high rank in another game and you cannot "miss" standing less than half a meter behind the target, yet you needed 2 peacekeeper shots to finish the guy.

Maybe you are having some horrible package loss and somehow more than half of your hits aren't registering, but that's a problem that you are having. I have over 30 friends that play this game, from 4 different country.(SA, NA, EU and Asia)
I watch streams, i talk with people in discords, yet nobody ever said that they had over 50% of hits not registered. Literally, nobody. But that's the situation that you are trying to pass and because of that the game need lower TTK.

Even if you aren't making up stuff and somehow your game has 50% of the shots simply not registering, what it would mean for everyone else? So 7 bullets kill someone and with expanded mag i can kill someone with 1/5 of my mag. How is that a good plan?

And i don't even need to post a video of myself. 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6PmWeYvjqU

 Look at the fist 2 kills, It stopped registering damage halfway because the enemy was already dead/in the death animation.

Don't believe it? Search for R99 and you will see that stuff often. that's the experience most people have with it. But i'm the one lying and you are the one telling the truth. OK, then post a video of you playing. Because quite frankly. It's hard to tell that you are telling the truth when all the evidences post otherwise.

@preyandplay When I get shot from behind by someone I'm unaware of, even during movement, I often barely have time to turn around and get a single shot off before I'm downed. So if you somehow can't manage to kill someone sitting still, I don't know what to tell you but you're doing something wrong there. A full r-99 magazine to the upper body kills everyone if all the shots hit. You can calculate 12 damage per shot times 18 shots yourself if you don't believe it.

"But there's people that can eliminate enemies from over 100 meters with a r301 in a single clip, i have seen it, i have friends that can do it, i've seen streamers that can do it. Yet i cannot do it."

I belive anyone can kill anyone from over 100 meters with any weapon. With cheats. I everyday saw "semi-pro players" with R99, R-301, Devotion, who hit every bullet using full-auto from 50-100 meters.

Tell your friend to try to play without cheats.