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@apostolateofDOOM fixed what I said.
I know there is SBMM in Pubs right now. It is just almost non existent.
@NoCutePanda Oh it's there, just not what we would want or expect.
@Triumphkutter I don't think anyone wants SBMM completely removed from the game and he has some reasonable points. Sure we need protections in place for new players and i doubt anyone is denying that but this is a team game and if you're in higher brackets then want to have friends come play that are new or just bad then you can't join them unless you're on a smurf.
The current version of SBMM we have promotes smurfing and exploits which negates the whole point of protecting new players and their retention any way. People can't play with IRL friends or family who are new, don't play as often or just not as skilled. The solo experience for vets is punishing having 2 low level or bad players for ''match balance'' meaning you have to carry them and they get deleted if not under the mains wing making the game unenjoyable for them too and frustrating for everyone.
- 5 years ago
@apostolateofDOOMWhich is, what I was trying to say ^^'
@Triumphkutter I agree 100% there.
- 5 years ago
@apostolateofDOOM i guess it comes down to how you play with your friends.
MAYBE dont play your W-key playstyle they cant keep up with?
what you say sounds alot like that.
the thing is: you say sbmm stops me from playing with my friends that are way worse than me.
but you do not bring a single idea of how this could be balanced out to protect new players from
simply uninstalling the game before they reach level 10, because its totally stupid to get * on every Fing single game.
if you open up the sbmm, the game is LITERALLY UNPLAYABE for 80-90%% of the players.
i also tried a smurf account.
once i reached level 20ish, the system matched me with the game guys my main is on.
so.... it actually works fine to protect newer players.
some anecdote:
there a some hardcore PvP MMORPGS out there. the playerbase wanted the game to be pvp with no restrictions whatsoever.
when they accepted the players wish, the games died shortly after.
all of them.
all. of. them.
because what seems fun for some people, kills the playerbase.
and without the n00bs, the top player always laugh upon, the game dies.
every game needs the casual players to stay healthy.
this is not a joke, even if it is a different genre, the situation stays the same.
there are plenty of games that provide evidence.
- 5 years ago
I feel like the title of the topic is highly accurate. Because lately the game has given me some strains in regards of match making.
More often than not I'm finding myself paired with people who possess skills and moves that I didn't know existed. Some people apparently possess the ability to wall-run and wall-jump, take sharp turns mid-air... Meanwhile I'm bound to basic movement. If the game really thinks I'm that good, I'm honestly not sure if I should feel honored or trolled. I'm not even sure how the SBMM works in that regard. Because even if it's based on some generic stats like level, K/DR and Win rate, it doesn't work. There are people who are undoubtedly several times better than I am from the get go.
Then again, what I hear from some sources, the average K/DR seems to range between 0.8 and 1.2 - I'm sitting at the lower half of that range. But that's exactly it. I'm average. Yet I'm paired with people who have no issues popping 6 kills in the first 2 minutes of the game. I find it hard to believe their K/DR sits around 1.0 as well. Same goes for level. I find it hard to believe that someone who is level 500 is as good as I am.
- 5 years ago
@Triumphkutter It's nothing to do with my playstyle. I can do my utmost to hold back and protect them but they're in to hard lobbies so if they get engaged first then they're usually down before they can effectively respond. I'm not saying they can't contribute and get the odd kill here and there or the occasional good match but if they get into a fight without me then the chance is pretty high they'll die and the success of the match overwhelmingly sits on me still being alive to carry them. If i'm down it's likely game over.
This is not only stressful for me but also for them as they feel bad that they're basically useless and get much easier matches without me in them.
Games without SBMM have been very successful in the past. I come from a PvP shooter background so could list many examples of successes that didn't have SBMM but they also had a different structure or different methods to joining matches. Granted though, it's true that others quickly died out without it. I'm not saying SBMM is bad or advocating to remove it but it's fundamentally flawed in a game like Apex and it will never be perfect for various reasons like the matchmaking, smurfs, exploits, open world, RNG ect..
Both me and @Axs5626Sxa5001 have discussed SBMM a lot during our time here.
I'm not talking about the odd comment or suggestion here and there but multiple threads with 100's of posts delving into the history and inner workings of SBMM, why it's used both for us and a business perspective, the pros and benefits to certain aspects of it, changes made over time, how to balance it our fairly in the future, EOMM ect ect ect.. If i was to go through everything we talked about we would be here for a considerable amount of time and you would be hard pressed to find anyone more knowledgeable on the subject on AHQ than @Axs5626Sxa5001 due to his own grievances and research so it would probably be better talking to him about this in all honesty.
Some bits i remember off the top off my head from those discussion that are relevant here:
• SBMM is good for the sole purpose of protecting new players and new player retention. This is overall healthy for the game but can be improved upon.
• Having SBMM to balance matches for everyone else is ok as long as it's reasonably relaxed when you already have a competitive mode as you don't want both to feel the same causing burnout and people leaving to wind down and play something else that's more casual.
• To strict SBMM will lead to frustration when those that have invested time and practiced (master/pred) not only do they not get rewarded when they keep playing but are actually punished by having a lower W/L ratio than someone in gold that plays 2 hours a week which isn't fair. This isn't equal opportunity but equal outcomes, so what's the point of improving if the end result is the same?
This also encourages smurfing or other methods to bypass those protections.
• EOMM and users being manipulated for engagement/financial purposes.
• Have a choice/toggle for it or certain game modes that don't have it, like a wild west pub game mode. These would likely be more challenging but you could offset that with rewards like an entry fee with legend tokens earning rewards like evo skins (like end of BP weapon skins) but for your legends for example. <-- This was suggested by @DarthValtrex and i personally love the idea which is why i keep suggesting it.
• Whatever we discuss or suggest isn't going to change it much as the financial incentive for Respawn/EA is there not to.
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