7 years ago
Unfair matchmaking
I just started the game a couple of days ago. Yesterday (2019.04.09.) something happened with the matching, and the teams were balanced. It was so much fun to play. We played 4-5 matches, and it star...
@MekaDeth555 wrote:
@SirTomek7 wrote:It looks like it yes. But the other day, it looked very different. We almost won against the same around 10-20 lvl guys. I guess its so hard to make a matchmaking system right? No game has ever had a system like that ages ago. Right.
It was a coincidence and yes in a BR implementing an MMR/ELO would be difficult, because most MM systems in other games are determined by win rate. You win a game your ELO goes up, you lose a game your ELO goes down. So players like me would end up with an ELO of 0 most of the time 😃
There are systems that take more stats like accuracy, KDR etc into account, but they take a very long time to implement.
Even games with an MMR system are rarely on point because the top 1% ranked players don't have many players to go up against, so after a certain time limit the match maker just throws them into a lower skill bracket.
I see, but do you know what i think? This is just laziness. Even if there would be a system that would gather players by their full kill counts would be better than this nothing.
If you think about it, every kill is one little plus experience. So if you make a smurf account, you will kill a lot of ppl so you will get to higher tier players fast, and not ruining the games too much for beginners. Obviously that wouldnt be perfect, but this state, how it is now, just ruining the fun, beginners cant improve and because of frustration you will uninstall and maybe realise you shouldnt waste your time.
When i was matched with beginners some times, it was so much fun, and i felt i started to improve, experience the weapons, fight, etc. Whats the point if youre not having fun? Go home after a hard working day, i want to have fun, not being frustrated and angry because i dont even have a chance to learn how to play, get killed instantly over and over again instead.
@SirTomek7 wrote:
@MekaDeth555 wrote:
@SirTomek7 wrote:It looks like it yes. But the other day, it looked very different. We almost won against the same around 10-20 lvl guys. I guess its so hard to make a matchmaking system right? No game has ever had a system like that ages ago. Right.
It was a coincidence and yes in a BR implementing an MMR/ELO would be difficult, because most MM systems in other games are determined by win rate. You win a game your ELO goes up, you lose a game your ELO goes down. So players like me would end up with an ELO of 0 most of the time 😃
There are systems that take more stats like accuracy, KDR etc into account, but they take a very long time to implement.
Even games with an MMR system are rarely on point because the top 1% ranked players don't have many players to go up against, so after a certain time limit the match maker just throws them into a lower skill bracket.
I see, but do you know what i think? This is just laziness. Even if there would be a system that would gather players by their full kill counts would be better than this nothing.
If you think about it, every kill is one little plus experience. So if you make a smurf account, you will kill a lot of ppl so you will get to higher tier players fast, and not ruining the games too much for beginners. Obviously that wouldnt be perfect, but this state, how it is now, just ruining the fun, beginners cant improve and because of frustration you will uninstall and maybe realise you shouldnt waste your time.
When i was matched with beginners some times, it was so much fun, and i felt i started to improve, experience the weapons, fight, etc. Whats the point if youre not having fun? Go home after a hard working day, i want to have fun, not being frustrated and angry because i dont even have a chance to learn how to play, get killed instantly over and over again instead.
Matchmaking is difficult to implement. To make the ranking system right, they need to consider various factors:
- Kills: Yes, kill counts is the easiest way to get impressed. But Kill/Death ratio is more accurate factor here. A player with 1000 kills and 5000 dead is not a skilled player. It just shows that player played the game more than others.
- Win: number of wins is another factor. Frequent winner is definitely a skilled player.
- Survival time: Some ppl will argue it's a less important factor. I'd argue it. Out of 20 matches, Player A with 1 win and got 19 games in the 19th squad, is not as good as a player with 0 win, but frequent top 3.
So, in order to rank a player, probably need to base on the combination of these 3 factors.
On top of that, matchmaking requires longer queue time.There is no absolute Matchmaking, we need to balance matchmaking with queue time as well,
Let's say:
- Perfect matchmaking takes minimum 5 mins queue time
- Moderate matchmaking takes 2 mins ( first minute matchmaking those similar skill players, after that, it fills up the rest based on priority)
- No MM takes almost instant to join the game
Most games will go for the 2nd option imo.
It isn't that difficult, <50, 50-150, 150+ done.
The point of matchmaking is keeping the experienced away from the newbies. Matchmaking on somones idea of skill is near pointless, as you'll never get it right.
The best way is experience, atleast you can matchmake with that as quickly as you can now.
@d3adc3II wrote:
@SirTomek7 wrote:
@MekaDeth555 wrote:
@SirTomek7 wrote:It looks like it yes. But the other day, it looked very different. We almost won against the same around 10-20 lvl guys. I guess its so hard to make a matchmaking system right? No game has ever had a system like that ages ago. Right.
It was a coincidence and yes in a BR implementing an MMR/ELO would be difficult, because most MM systems in other games are determined by win rate. You win a game your ELO goes up, you lose a game your ELO goes down. So players like me would end up with an ELO of 0 most of the time 😃
There are systems that take more stats like accuracy, KDR etc into account, but they take a very long time to implement.
Even games with an MMR system are rarely on point because the top 1% ranked players don't have many players to go up against, so after a certain time limit the match maker just throws them into a lower skill bracket.
I see, but do you know what i think? This is just laziness. Even if there would be a system that would gather players by their full kill counts would be better than this nothing.
If you think about it, every kill is one little plus experience. So if you make a smurf account, you will kill a lot of ppl so you will get to higher tier players fast, and not ruining the games too much for beginners. Obviously that wouldnt be perfect, but this state, how it is now, just ruining the fun, beginners cant improve and because of frustration you will uninstall and maybe realise you shouldnt waste your time.
When i was matched with beginners some times, it was so much fun, and i felt i started to improve, experience the weapons, fight, etc. Whats the point if youre not having fun? Go home after a hard working day, i want to have fun, not being frustrated and angry because i dont even have a chance to learn how to play, get killed instantly over and over again instead.Matchmaking is difficult to implement. To make the ranking system right, they need to consider various factors:
- Kills: Yes, kill counts is the easiest way to get impressed. But Kill/Death ratio is more accurate factor here. A player with 1000 kills and 5000 dead is not a skilled player. It just shows that player played the game more than others.
- Win: number of wins is another factor. Frequent winner is definitely a skilled player.
- Survival time: Some ppl will argue it's a less important factor. I'd argue it. Out of 20 matches, Player A with 1 win and got 19 games in the 19th squad, is not as good as a player with 0 win, but frequent top 3.
So, in order to rank a player, probably need to base on the combination of these 3 factors.
On top of that, matchmaking requires longer queue time.There is no absolute Matchmaking, we need to balance matchmaking with queue time as well,
Let's say:
- Perfect matchmaking takes minimum 5 mins queue time
- Moderate matchmaking takes 2 mins ( first minute matchmaking those similar skill players, after that, it fills up the rest based on priority)
- No MM takes almost instant to join the game
Most games will go for the 2nd option imo.
Mmmm, it's a very prickly issues since some people, myself included, don't really care about the wins and just play like a DM. Hot dropping every game will absolutely tank your stats (like 7/10 game i'll have 150-300 dmg / 5 mins survival then the rest i'm top 3 with 1k+ damage) but if my survival time and k/d ratio would put me in something like the 25th percentile and in reality i'm somewhere in the 60-70th once properly geared, what happens is people like me will start dropping to the point where you're going to get a few dozen game where you could win champion with fists thus "ruining" those games, before going back into "proper" bracket for a while , before diving back down etc.
Thats why simplicity is best.
@Powerofdoi wrote:
@d3adc3II wrote:
@SirTomek7 wrote:
@MekaDeth555 wrote:
@SirTomek7 wrote:It looks like it yes. But the other day, it looked very different. We almost won against the same around 10-20 lvl guys. I guess its so hard to make a matchmaking system right? No game has ever had a system like that ages ago. Right.
It was a coincidence and yes in a BR implementing an MMR/ELO would be difficult, because most MM systems in other games are determined by win rate. You win a game your ELO goes up, you lose a game your ELO goes down. So players like me would end up with an ELO of 0 most of the time 😃
There are systems that take more stats like accuracy, KDR etc into account, but they take a very long time to implement.
Even games with an MMR system are rarely on point because the top 1% ranked players don't have many players to go up against, so after a certain time limit the match maker just throws them into a lower skill bracket.
I see, but do you know what i think? This is just laziness. Even if there would be a system that would gather players by their full kill counts would be better than this nothing.
If you think about it, every kill is one little plus experience. So if you make a smurf account, you will kill a lot of ppl so you will get to higher tier players fast, and not ruining the games too much for beginners. Obviously that wouldnt be perfect, but this state, how it is now, just ruining the fun, beginners cant improve and because of frustration you will uninstall and maybe realise you shouldnt waste your time.
When i was matched with beginners some times, it was so much fun, and i felt i started to improve, experience the weapons, fight, etc. Whats the point if youre not having fun? Go home after a hard working day, i want to have fun, not being frustrated and angry because i dont even have a chance to learn how to play, get killed instantly over and over again instead.Matchmaking is difficult to implement. To make the ranking system right, they need to consider various factors:
- Kills: Yes, kill counts is the easiest way to get impressed. But Kill/Death ratio is more accurate factor here. A player with 1000 kills and 5000 dead is not a skilled player. It just shows that player played the game more than others.
- Win: number of wins is another factor. Frequent winner is definitely a skilled player.
- Survival time: Some ppl will argue it's a less important factor. I'd argue it. Out of 20 matches, Player A with 1 win and got 19 games in the 19th squad, is not as good as a player with 0 win, but frequent top 3.
So, in order to rank a player, probably need to base on the combination of these 3 factors.
On top of that, matchmaking requires longer queue time.There is no absolute Matchmaking, we need to balance matchmaking with queue time as well,
Let's say:
- Perfect matchmaking takes minimum 5 mins queue time
- Moderate matchmaking takes 2 mins ( first minute matchmaking those similar skill players, after that, it fills up the rest based on priority)
- No MM takes almost instant to join the game
Most games will go for the 2nd option imo.
Mmmm, it's a very prickly issues since some people, myself included, don't really care about the wins and just play like a DM. Hot dropping every game will absolutely tank your stats (like 7/10 game i'll have 150-300 dmg / 5 mins survival then the rest i'm top 3 with 1k+ damage) but if my survival time and k/d ratio would put me in something like the 25th percentile and in reality i'm somewhere in the 60-70th once properly geared, what happens is people like me will start dropping to the point where you're going to get a few dozen game where you could win champion with fists thus "ruining" those games, before going back into "proper" bracket for a while , before diving back down etc.
It's my opinion about the right matchmaking.
Of course, the points between those 3 factors need to be adjusted.
But kda, survival time, win are all important and need to take into consideration.
The level means nothing in this game. It just show how long u played the game.
For example: my gf, never play game on PC before, never use the mouse to do things other than browsing web.
Her aim is terrible, she can barely shoot anything further than 15m
She does not understand English so dun expect her to use legend skills rofl.
Guess what? Her level is 70 now. She played alot, definitely she will reach level 100 soon but ...?
Cursed the day i let her try the game. The next day, she bought $200 for apex pack using my card. Damn ☹️
@d3adc3II KDR is a good idea, survival time and wins not so much. Someone that plays hide n seek all game can last until the very last second. Someone that has skilled friends that carry them all the time will have a higher winrate.
Best idea I think would be accuracy, how many shots hit Vs shots missed.