Wins aside. What do you think is the most important stat for apex?
Friends and I have been having a bit of a debate on this as I personally think damage is most important but they believe otherwise
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@MrGreenWithAGun Damage can also be lumped into your patience argument tho. I've farmed 1500 damage off a final team before. Not because I wanted to but because I was 2v3, my random wasn't good and that team, no matter what damage they did never moved forward to finish us off.
High damage does not mean high accuracy.
High damage does not mean high accuracy.
@hayhorI am not certain what you are describing here, but it is absolutely clear that damage can only occur if you hit your target. Thus it is the only metric of your ability to aim and hit your target. This is a shooter. You have to HIT YOUR TARGET to win. You don't always win, but you need to if you want to win.
Even in the corner cases where the top teams die in odd ways, such as fighting each other and fighting the map/ring. But those are the corner cases, and besides the win isn't the metric of skill. Your damage is the metric of ability to aim and hit.
there are too many variables in what leads to a win, a knock, a kill. But there are only two variables that leads to damage - your aim and ability to hit and the weapon itself. Some require lots of continuous aim to deal the same damage as a single shot from other weapons. A single shot sniper that can knock a player could be attributed to luck shot, but not often at all to really factor that in.
- @MrGreenWithAGun It is rather simple to say that you can't use a single stat as I claimed, damage can be misleading if counted for alone.
High damage with low accuracy and low amount of kills most likely mean you spray and pray with no kill confirmed.
High damage with high accuracy and low amount of kills either means you can't finish the job or you get massively killed stealed by either team mates or enemies. Luckily in the first matter you can see that by participation scores.
High damage with high accuracy and many kills most likely mean you are really good.
The stat you describe is more or less accuracy by the looks of it. I have seen and had many games with damage up above 1.5k with no or few kills and those games don't necessary mean we did anything good more than just being able to deal out damage in whatever scenario with no meaningfull outcome.You can't draw complex conclusion based on one statistic measure and be certain it is correct when there are plentyfull of other measures together that will draw the most accurate picture.
@drevinum9I agree with what you said. But I wasn't trying to say that winning was important and that damage helps you measure your ability to win. I was saying that dealing damage shows you hit the target. The higher your damage, the more you hit the target. Call it pray and spray or anything you want, you are hitting the target.
Too many variables go into winning, but only damage measures your shooting.
And this is a shooter. So for me it isn't whether you win (too many variables that have nothing to do with shooting), but can you shoot? Thus, damage is the best indicator of your shooting.
@MrGreenWithAGunI described a specific situation where I farmed an enormous amount of damage. Damage can be easily farmed. High damage with no kills is not skill for me.
At the highest level of this game they do not give out any points for damage. It's placement points plus team kp.I have to agree with @hayhor there is no one stat that is more or less important then the other.
damage can and will be farmed, poke and shoot, shoot and scoot never getting a kill and you can get the 2K or higher dmg badges.
Kills get stolen all the time, same with nocks.
All stats need to be taken together, kills, knocks, damage, revives, respawns, time survived and of course placement.
Even then there are things that are more important than stat lines like being a good IGL, knowing when and when not to engage, knowing when and where to rotate, being able to fast re-set, having a good team composition and above all having good team communication. These are the invisible 'Stats' that get teams placing in the top or winning the round.
@dSKyNafinchin I fully agree with you. It has gotta be fun first of all.
I think the better question should be how to balance it better.
It's honestly far too easy for higher skill players to dupe a few matches to get to lower level lobbies just by doing minimum damage or losing a few matches.
- @XxColdFangxX I'm not entirely sure it's that easy. I feel like I've read numerous threads by someone on here ( @Axs5626Sxa5001 if memory serves me), somewhat of a journey, intentionally tanking in an attempt to test the MM. I remember reading about 50+ matches in a row with 0 dmg, and still getting nothing but master/pred lobbies. I might have tagged the wrong person, but I definitely remember reading multiple threads with pretty in-depth testing of MM.
For me, I've noticed it's about 50-50. I either do well, or have a terrible match, regardless of enemy rank. I rarely get truly competitive matches, whether it be BR or Mixtape
- @MrGreenWithAGun
"it is absolutely clear that damage can only occur if you hit your target."
Yes, but I think what @hayhor is saying is that, like all other stats, damage numbers out of context mean nothing. Damage only becomes meaningful, imo, in the context of accuracy. If player one does 2k damage in a match and player two does 2k damage in a match, but player one fired off twice as many rounds, then player two is the better, more accurate player.
That said, here's another way in which damage can be misleading. My accuracy numbers are very high, but only because I favor mid-to-long range poking, where it's easy to deal damage with the right weapon and scope, and not get hit back. So with enough ammo I can keep that up virtually forever. High damage, but not necessarily effective at killing or even knocking. Only really good for position control. Just one example where damage isn't necessarily useful.@reconzeroI do get that point. But you have no other metric for hitting your target. And it doesn't matter how often you shoot, if you get 2k damage, then that means you are a good shooter.
I never said damage was a metric to accuracy. I said it measured how often you hit the target. If I shoot twice as often as you do, and we get the same damage, then yes you are twice as accurate as I am, but we are still able to support our teams in terms of dealing damage, hitting our target. I am just more aggressive at pulling the trigger than you, which isn't important to me. It is how often can you hit the target.
In a team play, that is perhaps the most critical metric in this game.
I would say kills are, but they don't make a 1 to 1 correlation to your skill to hit the target - no where close.
This is a shooter. You shoot to hit your target. It is unfortunate that the most damage doesn't get the kill, but we have gone all over that in another thread, and that leaves me with damage as the only meaningful metric of skill in Apex.In that sense, we don't define skill the same. I don't care about accuracy. I care about hitting the target relentlessly and more than anyone else. That is because hitting your target more supports your team more.
- @MrGreenWithAGun The one and only metric to indicate your skill in hitting target is named accuracy and that is a stat inside the game. Damage have nothing to do with your ability to hit the target...
Lets get the definitions right here, accuracy is your ability to hit target. Damage is damage dealt. However a stat that is combined of accuracy, bullets fired and damage would really tell you how good you are as a shooter.
Lets look at easy examples where we say bullets deal 25 damage each. It is rather generous amount of damage but not fantasy.
100% accuracy, 1 bullet fired deal 25 damage. Well you hit your one shot and dealt little to no damage.
10% accuracy, 600 bullets fired, deals 1500 damage well you can deal damage but you need a lot of time and bullets to do so. In Apex, a long fight, that is rarely the thing you want because then it will become a hell hole rather quickly and odds for survival slim.
15% accuracy 400 bullets deal aswell 1500 damage but hey look at that less bullets to deal the same amount of damage.
20% accuracy 300 bullets fired deal aswell 1500 damage but now we are getting even more efficient.
25% accuracy 240 bullets fired deals yet again 1500 damage but now we are being close to a pro gamer here.
30% accuracy 200 bullets fired deals, you guessed it 1500 damage and now we are spicy in combat.
60% accuracy 100 bullets fired deals well now it should be obvious 1500 damage and you are clearly a pro at this point.
100% accuracy 60 bullets fired and well now I would call you a cheater....
So if I told you I can potentially deal 1500 damage a game which is rather good if we compare my stats, all time highest damage 2576 and average damage 458. Then you probably don't want the guy with 10% accuracy because you would very much likely have a bad time. Preferably you would want the guy around 25% accuracy.
Do you see now how skewed the skill of a player gets if you only look at damage and potentially how skewed it would get if you only look at accuracy?
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