You think hitboxes are fair?
I think this should be adjusted in some manner. So far my only though is to adjust legends speed based on their size, to make it a bit more fair. Smaller legends go slower than bigger ones.
Forum Discussion
@Tyldaa
I agree that on the surface it seems unfair. Having come from shooters where all players are the same size, speed, height, etc. it can feel annoying to come up against a wraith with a postage stamp sized hitbox, or a Gibby with a 10% damage buff.
On the other hand, part of the sport of this game is all the endless variation, including legend variation. I have to think that if Wraith's hitbox advantage wasn't counterbalanced by so many other factors then her pick rate would be through the roof. But it isn't, at least not anymore. I know pick rates don't ever tell the entire story, but they give a pretty good indication of whether or not things are seriously out of balance and by how much. So far I'd say they're not pointing out any major problems.
That said, after 22k matches I still dread close-quarters combat with a Wraith. I guess I always will.
I agree that on the surface it seems unfair. Having come from shooters where all players are the same size, speed, height, etc. it can feel annoying to come up against a wraith with a postage stamp sized hitbox, or a Gibby with a 10% damage buff.
On the other hand, part of the sport of this game is all the endless variation, including legend variation. I have to think that if Wraith's hitbox advantage wasn't counterbalanced by so many other factors then her pick rate would be through the roof. But it isn't, at least not anymore. I know pick rates don't ever tell the entire story, but they give a pretty good indication of whether or not things are seriously out of balance and by how much. So far I'd say they're not pointing out any major problems.
That said, after 22k matches I still dread close-quarters combat with a Wraith. I guess I always will.
@reconzero I have to disagree with you here, as a revenant Main I can legit feel how much faster I die compared to when I sometimes play even ash…not to mention wraith…Rev is at a significant disadvantage against wraith and every other legend, and he simply shouldn’t be there is absolutely no reason why that should be the case in a competitive shooter
your pick rate Argument clearly shows major problems don’t know why you would say there isn’t one aside from pathfinder every single legend with a big hitbox has a very low pickrate:
Caustic 2.5%
Vantage 2%
Gibby 1.5%
Rev 1.4%
Newcastle 1.2%
your pick rate Argument clearly shows major problems don’t know why you would say there isn’t one aside from pathfinder every single legend with a big hitbox has a very low pickrate:
Caustic 2.5%
Vantage 2%
Gibby 1.5%
Rev 1.4%
Newcastle 1.2%
- @matzesingt
You're absolutely right about the low pick rates for the tubby legends. I forgot about that and yes, it is definitely a sign of a problem. I guess I was thinking more of Wraith's slow slide away from always being the number one pick.
Also, none of the legend deltas are as important in my [lower skill] lobbies as I'm sure they are at, say, diamond or even platinum. In my lobbies all the kids and new beans pick Wraith and Octane and hot drop and die instantly no matter how small their hitbox.
Now you have me thinking.... Are all the high pick rate legends picked because they're small and hard to kill or because they're primarily mobility legends and mobility is always king in a shooter?@reconzeroWell I checked masters:
Caustic 2.1%
Vantage 0.6%
Gibby 0.7%
Newcastle 0.9%
Rev 0.2%
But path pickrate went up to more than 20% but he had been buffed and has a strong mobility ult.
Overall I think it comes down to mobility and hitbox. So if a character has a big hitbox and no mobility he is in a rough spot because he can’t properly 1v1 and will be at a significant disadvantage in every duel they take. We can not forget here that when you get hit while your shield is down you will take aimpunch negatively effecting your own accuracy. I played high diamond arena as revenant and sometimes Ash and the difference in how hard I got beamed back was significant like seriously significant. And ash is not that small really compared to something like wraith ll Watson.
The problem is if you have a big character that is at a disadvantage in a duel and they have no way out with mobility then it’s very punishing to get caught somewhere.
A path for example has often the chance to disengage with grapple that’s why his hixbox is okay. But even he got his hitbox adjusted atleast once if not more.
Just think back about the wraith nerfs to her hitbox and running Animation how people were crying, so yea I think it plays a role in people’s choices.
Every higher tier rev main will tell you that his main problem is his hitbox and nothing else, his kit is fine, his passive is one of the best in the game and his silence is also top tier and his ult is okay nothing crazy but it can be really good on right situations.Yes, but I think it more synergy of both. For example take legeds with only one attribute
- Lifeline: smaller hitboxes but lacks mobility. I often die quickly cause lifeline is usually focuse first.
- Valkyria: mobile but bigger hitboxes make it also not too hard to hit
Its very subjective, but overally is it also objective in some degree
I mean, as long as the hit box is taken into consideration in the legends overall balance, I think its "fair", which I currently it is. A small hit box wont save you from AA anyways haha. Also, pick rates at amateur level, even masters+, is not a good measurement of legend balance imo, especially not now when almost all pros play on private servers to avoid cheaters and not get bad habits from obliterating poor diamonds. If this game want to survive as a game with a serious and healthy pro scene, the game must be balanced according to the professional level and I am fairly sure that pros pay little to no attention to a legends hit box, at least in comparison to the rest of their kit, which I guess you can include the hit box.
- How did you obtain this percentage data?
- @FPShogun You can find them online no problem
- @FPShogun apex tracker probably.
I kinda agree with @matzesingt and disagree at the same time.
Balancing around top player is good, but they should also fix all legends to be at least working. Im still waiting for them to fix my fav hero rampart and the problem with quick swaping weapons.
If you balance around Top players, keep other stuff also highly competitive! Because you ignore majority of the players :D
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