Hello. As the title states the game is just broken. The game has no consistency. I get that situations are dynamic and players are better than others. However that’s not the problem. I can get instantly killed in Mili seconds or I can survive with 3 mags emptied in me. Yeah I bounce around on servers and my ping averages 35-50ms ping on most servers. If I win gets worse, the next game is almost unplayable as in i die with it looks as a few shots. I am not the only one who feels this way hence why everyone is quitting apex. If I don’t play for a couple of days I am the one doing insta kills. i don’t understand the code they has implemented in this game, but it isn’t working. These are one of the two battle royal games I enjoy and I may just have to quit it just because it’s unfair almost like lag compensation. Apex is whack these days.

I said this before here, I'll say it again. You literally just described EOMM. Go look at what EOMM is and how it functions and what it's priorities are. Everything you just mentioned is what it is intended to do. Everyone just easily chalks it up to server issues. I'm not saying that there isn't server issues, there is for sure. But do ppl, think that every time you've played well without issues that the server is finally working like it is supposed to - and then what you stated above happens that the server is poo - you take a break and then come back and your a god again... awh sweet the servers are working properly again.I bet you also notice it is consistent too correct?

The one question I would love to have the answer for, is - if EOMM is based on equaling the wins, draws and loses....what does the system do to guarantee these 3 stay equal? Not even sure I want to know the answer to that. 🤔Because in my opinion, putting someone with lower or higher KD, or kills or even level, can not guarantee those results. example - I am a level 500, yet I get owed by lower level players all the time and vice versa. Just cause someone's KD is higher than another doesn't mean this person will come out on top. Same with someone with 10,000 kills over someone with say, 200 kills - again, there is no way to guarantee the person with 10,000 kills loses or wins depending which the system deems is next or who is next up for a good time and who is at the expense of someone who is needed to be "retained." Seeing as how regularly the examples I have mentioned up above happen on a regular basis, I worry that when I have matches where even if my reticle isn't on the enemies hit box, I still register hits, or times when I put a whole clip into someone and can clearly see I am hitting the person or in the case of a pathy, rev, ash - can see the medal sparks yet don't generate any damage points - or the matches where I can tell my aim is auto locking onto my target and I can track them with ease even if they are moving, ducking, strafing etc.... That scares me. I played yesterday duos, 7 straight matches and go owned destroyed by the first person I came across all seven matches, mostly lower level players. Couldn't aim, couldn't track, couldn't hit a single target. On my 8th match with 2 Re45's, I hit everyone no matter what they were doing, the distance - beamed everyone with ease, didn't even seem like I had to aim, and won the match. Nobody goes from hitting nothing at all, I mean nothing to hitting everything without missing a bullet in the same gaming session within a small time frame. Hence the more I play the worse and worse I get and watch my KD plummet faster in one week than the 3 years it took to get it to where it was. Again, lately I have been playing a short session every 2 to 3 weeks, rinse and repeat and my KD is going back up and feels like it did in Season 3. If I get hooked and keep playing long sessions day after day - the above stated kicks in like clock work. I wish I could understand what's happening but I can't and can only guess and speculate. All I can say is what I said above - I know my skill level, I am not delusional or think I am better than what I am. I can tell when I am being assisted above my skill level and when I am being forced to play below it. Its really really simple to see. So I have taken buddies advice and Apex now is a game I play for about 2 hrs every 2 or 2 and a half weeks and seems to feel like it used to back in the good ole Apex days. I wonder if the cheating, smurfing etc isn't really being dealt with like Titanfall because if my theory is correct, then wouldn't all the cheating, smurfing, mods etc mask an EOMM system quite well? food for thought. : )

@NickBeam27 Okay, round two:EOMM could be part of what the OP is describing, but real-world SBMM could just as easily produce a god-match followed immediately by a drubbing. The paper seems to suggest that while EOMM gives slightly higher player retention (less "churn"), the difference isn't really that huge. If I read it right. Which I might not have - that was a lot of math.But the thing I read about after made me genuinely uncomfortable: dynamic difficulty adjustment. EOMM and SBMM are just two slightly different ways of determining who will play against who, but DDA seems in principle to be much more likely to cause some of the symptoms people are describing. And we know EA has patents on it and has used it in single player games. How it would apply to a multiplayer game is harder to understand, and I have to think that if they tried it and anybody ever had a shred of proof that it was happening then you would see this game end overnight. Though I'm certainly willing to listen to anything anyone has to say on the subject.

@Sand_spitter wrote:@warslagIt happens to me all the time. If I'm surprised by another player and we trade shots there's no getting out of it. Either he falls or I do, every time I try to get out of it by going around a corner or running or sometimes even ducking I will lose that fight.One thing I'm noticing now is when I go down very quickly and looking at the recap tab is that according to it I was hit multiple times instead of just the one hit I'm seeing on my screen. I was literally killed by 1 bullet the other day. And I'm thinking what gun is that dude using? According to recap screen it was 3 hits from a G7 scout. I saw 1 and 1 only.I've always found this to be an issue with Apex, mostly due to the Predictive Engine that Respawn uses in game. Below is an image showing the different Red icons you will see in game:Latency and Packet Loss could be anyones issues, either user or Apex or ISP, etc.. Congestion is an Apex issue only, but the Prediction Error threw me for a loop because I see it constantly. The way Apex works is the game will try and predict all enemy movements and render them on screen before waiting for the other player(s) to actually make those moves.In case anyone missed that, let me explain further. When you are playing Apex, you aren't actually shooting at other players, you are shooting at the game engine rendering other players movements/shooting based on what the game THINKS those other players will do. Now this would be fine except what happens when a player makes a move the engine didn't/couldn't predict? Like if I see a Valk slide towards a doorway to cover and then for some reason they would cancel the slide, jump up and drop all their loot and then emote, what would it look like? You would see the slide and then once the system realizes that the Valk didn't slide through the door to cover, my game engine is going to start acting up. I may see the Valk slide in the door, then zip back out and then magic loot appears on the ground (has happened to me before). Or maybe the system catches the change in the Valk's movement and render it 100% correctly. Or maybe the Valk is basically a cardboard cutout and on my screen I get 4 hits with no Regs because I'm shooting at a Valk who is no longer there (has happened more often than I want to remember.)If players look out for the Predictive error in game, they will see it happening more often then they would like. This means that if you are downed, and you have your shield up and a Rev comes up to finish you off, you ever notice how you can keep them in your view 100% of the time but you still can die with shield health remaining? It's usually due to the fact that you are aiming your downed shield towards where the enemy was .5 seconds ago on your screen, but to the Server they have run up beside you and are shooting your body directly. Now in your game the Rev will still be in front of your shield, but you'll see your health takes the hits. Just look for the Predictive Error in those cases of "How am I getting hit?" and if you see that error you know you've died to the Predictive Engine not showing you what is happening on screen until the server sends your client a kill/wipe confirmation.The reason this engine is used is to improve the gameplay feel, it would look very choppy/glitchy if each action/movement needed to be rendered back to the client by the server. And it does the job, the game can feel very smooth. But the existence of such a game function precludes Apex from being a serious shooter because you aren't playing against other players, you're playing against NPC's that are only mostly controlled by other players. The only reason it's smooth is because it's not actually showing you what other players are doing, it's only showing you what they think they are doing right up until the engine can't predict movements and then it's just a matter of who has the better connection to the server.

I fail to believe you have never had any of those issues. We have all had matches where you land every bullet. We have all also had matches where you can't land any or only land a few. Is that servers? - possibly. Is it servers every time - doubt that very much. Too many ppl with the very same experiences. Balance of probability at that point. Have you ever shot at a revenant, pathy or ash (I use them as examples because its much easier to notice) - upon hitting them you always see medal shards or sparks indicating that you have landed hits? I can't count how many times I blast into one of them, see the medal sparks but not a single damage point is given. I do not die, I duck down behind cover and reload and never do generate those damage points. Now usually if it is a server issue or lag, you will still receive those damage points but after a delay. Is that always a server issue? - possibly....every time it happens when their is no other type of lag issues what so ever in that match, and my fps and ping are exactly where they are supposed to be? - also, doubt that very much. Here's a good example from my many many experiences - lets take the wingman. I do not know how to use a wingman, only used it maybe 3 or 4 times since game launch. Can't hit the broad side of a barn if my life depended on it, I know cause 2 out of the 4 times I've used it was in firing range. Realized really quickly it just wasn't for me, can't use it - stink with it completely. However there are times in a match where it is my time to have fun - and I have picked it up because it was the only gun available and I started getting shot from behind. I panicked and did a 180, I didn't find the guy in my sights and fire. I didn't track him. I just turned out of sheer panic and took a wild guess roughly where he was firing from and downed him in 2 head shots! I know my skill level - I know when I am being helped and when I am being takin away from. I am not that good. I went on that match and again in two shots from over 300 meters away killed another guy with the wingman in 3 head shots. I am sure I was reported for cheating that day....even I would have reported me. I went on that match and couple following to not miss a shot. Even when I could visibly see that my cursor was just beside the enemy and not right on him as my aim at that particular moment wasn't great but still I generated hits I could clearly see that I shouldn't have. Got 14 kills that match and 2900 damage. Again - I am not that good, that is above my average skill level. I couldn't do anything wrong. Another example - I am in duos as a solo -I have blue shield, being shot at by a duo team, one my east side 20 feet away roughly, and his partner on my west side about the same distant away. This is a game over situation. Again, I panicked and did a 180 and started firing out of desperation, ducking, jumping, spinning 180 again firing at his partner going back and fourth. I know they are landing hits. They are too close to miss. Some how I came out of that battle knocked and eliminated that duo. Here is where it got weird. When I finally looked down to see my health. I only had one blue cell out of my shield that was depleted WTF! I though what the hell, I have matches where I'm red evo and take a few bullets and get knocked. I just had two guys spraying me on both sides at close range and that is the only damage I took. Again - where those two terrible shots - possibly, but I fail to believe those guys at that distant missed every shot in a battle that felt like 45 seconds long. Cause I know there are too many matches where my bullets seem to go right through or don't register at all despite seeing the medal sparks from indicated hits landing. So with just those two simple above examples just 2 out of many, I ask, is that just the server working like its supposed to? Why am I landing hits when my reticle is still half a foot off the person's hit marker? Again, I know my skill level. I can tell the difference from an off day. I can also tell the difference from when the system is helping me to play above my skill level and when it forces me to play below it. I've been playing this game since day one. After awhile it is pretty easy to tell. Hence EOMM. But this is just my opinion.

Apex is just broken | EA Forums

28 Replies

NickBeam27
4 years ago
I said this before here, I'll say it again. You literally just described EOMM. Go look at what EOMM is and how it functions and what it's priorities are. Everything you just mentioned is what it is intended to do.
Everyone just easily chalks it up to server issues. I'm not saying that there isn't server issues, there is for sure. But do ppl, think that every time you've played well without issues that the server is finally working like it is supposed to - and then what you stated above happens that the server is poo - you take a break and then come back and your a god again... awh sweet the servers are working properly again.
I bet you also notice it is consistent too correct?
hayhor
Hero
4 years ago
@NickBeam27 What about people that don't have these issues?
NickBeam27
4 years ago
I fail to believe you have never had any of those issues. We have all had matches where you land every bullet. We have all also had matches where you can't land any or only land a few. Is that servers? - possibly. Is it servers every time - doubt that very much. Too many ppl with the very same experiences. Balance of probability at that point.
Have you ever shot at a revenant, pathy or ash (I use them as examples because its much easier to notice) - upon hitting them you always see medal shards or sparks indicating that you have landed hits? I can't count how many times I blast into one of them, see the medal sparks but not a single damage point is given. I do not die, I duck down behind cover and reload and never do generate those damage points.
Now usually if it is a server issue or lag, you will still receive those damage points but after a delay. Is that always a server issue? - possibly....every time it happens when their is no other type of lag issues what so ever in that match, and my fps and ping are exactly where they are supposed to be? - also, doubt that very much.
Here's a good example from my many many experiences - lets take the wingman. I do not know how to use a wingman, only used it maybe 3 or 4 times since game launch. Can't hit the broad side of a barn if my life depended on it, I know cause 2 out of the 4 times I've used it was in firing range. Realized really quickly it just wasn't for me, can't use it - stink with it completely. However there are times in a match where it is my time to have fun - and I have picked it up because it was the only gun available and I started getting shot from behind. I panicked and did a 180, I didn't find the guy in my sights and fire. I didn't track him. I just turned out of sheer panic and took a wild guess roughly where he was firing from and downed him in 2 head shots! I know my skill level - I know when I am being helped and when I am being takin away from. I am not that good. I went on that match and again in two shots from over 300 meters away killed another guy with the wingman in 3 head shots. I am sure I was reported for cheating that day....even I would have reported me.
I went on that match and couple following to not miss a shot. Even when I could visibly see that my cursor was just beside the enemy and not right on him as my aim at that particular moment wasn't great but still I generated hits I could clearly see that I shouldn't have. Got 14 kills that match and 2900 damage. Again - I am not that good, that is above my average skill level. I couldn't do anything wrong.
Another example - I am in duos as a solo -I have blue shield, being shot at by a duo team, one my east side 20 feet away roughly, and his partner on my west side about the same distant away. This is a game over situation. Again, I panicked and did a 180 and started firing out of desperation, ducking, jumping, spinning 180 again firing at his partner going back and fourth. I know they are landing hits. They are too close to miss. Some how I came out of that battle knocked and eliminated that duo. Here is where it got weird. When I finally looked down to see my health. I only had one blue cell out of my shield that was depleted WTF! I though what the hell, I have matches where I'm red evo and take a few bullets and get knocked. I just had two guys spraying me on both sides at close range and that is the only damage I took. Again - where those two terrible shots - possibly, but I fail to believe those guys at that distant missed every shot in a battle that felt like 45 seconds long. Cause I know there are too many matches where my bullets seem to go right through or don't register at all despite seeing the medal sparks from indicated hits landing.
So with just those two simple above examples just 2 out of many, I ask, is that just the server working like its supposed to? Why am I landing hits when my reticle is still half a foot off the person's hit marker?
Again, I know my skill level. I can tell the difference from an off day. I can also tell the difference from when the system is helping me to play above my skill level and when it forces me to play below it. I've been playing this game since day one. After awhile it is pretty easy to tell.
Hence EOMM. But this is just my opinion.
reconzero
Seasoned Ace
4 years ago
@NickBeam27 I'd never heard of EOMM before, but am reading up on it as I type this. Others may want to check it out:

http://web.cs.ucla.edu/~yzsun/papers/WWW17Chen_EOMM
DarthValtrex
Hero (Retired)
4 years ago
@NickBeam27 I'm curious do you have any clips of any of this? I'd like to see it. If you take some clips of it can make sure you play with the performance display on so we can see what's going on with the net connection?
KelRiever
4 years ago
Well, I can say for sure in Apex all guns are not equal. And that is even considering their roles. An R-99 is better in any firefight to a Prowler, no mater what the range. A Sentinel is still a bad gun. This isn't to say they aren't fun to use, but we're talking winning fights.
I know that isn't what you are posting about necessarily, OP, but it's part of the problem.
reconzero
Seasoned Ace
4 years ago
@NickBeam27 Okay, round two:

EOMM could be part of what the OP is describing, but real-world SBMM could just as easily produce a god-match followed immediately by a drubbing. The paper seems to suggest that while EOMM gives slightly higher player retention (less "churn"), the difference isn't really that huge. If I read it right. Which I might not have - that was a lot of math.

But the thing I read about after made me genuinely uncomfortable: dynamic difficulty adjustment. EOMM and SBMM are just two slightly different ways of determining who will play against who, but DDA seems in principle to be much more likely to cause some of the symptoms people are describing. And we know EA has patents on it and has used it in single player games. How it would apply to a multiplayer game is harder to understand, and I have to think that if they tried it and anybody ever had a shred of proof that it was happening then you would see this game end overnight. Though I'm certainly willing to listen to anything anyone has to say on the subject.
NickBeam27
4 years ago
The one question I would love to have the answer for, is - if EOMM is based on equaling the wins, draws and loses....what does the system do to guarantee these 3 stay equal?
Not even sure I want to know the answer to that. 🤔
Because in my opinion, putting someone with lower or higher KD, or kills or even level, can not guarantee those results. example - I am a level 500, yet I get owed by lower level players all the time and vice versa. Just cause someone's KD is higher than another doesn't mean this person will come out on top. Same with someone with 10,000 kills over someone with say, 200 kills - again, there is no way to guarantee the person with 10,000 kills loses or wins depending which the system deems is next or who is next up for a good time and who is at the expense of someone who is needed to be "retained."
Seeing as how regularly the examples I have mentioned up above happen on a regular basis, I worry that when I have matches where even if my reticle isn't on the enemies hit box, I still register hits, or times when I put a whole clip into someone and can clearly see I am hitting the person or in the case of a pathy, rev, ash - can see the medal sparks yet don't generate any damage points - or the matches where I can tell my aim is auto locking onto my target and I can track them with ease even if they are moving, ducking, strafing etc.... That scares me.
I played yesterday duos, 7 straight matches and go owned destroyed by the first person I came across all seven matches, mostly lower level players. Couldn't aim, couldn't track, couldn't hit a single target. On my 8th match with 2 Re45's, I hit everyone no matter what they were doing, the distance - beamed everyone with ease, didn't even seem like I had to aim, and won the match. Nobody goes from hitting nothing at all, I mean nothing to hitting everything without missing a bullet in the same gaming session within a small time frame.
Hence the more I play the worse and worse I get and watch my KD plummet faster in one week than the 3 years it took to get it to where it was. Again, lately I have been playing a short session every 2 to 3 weeks, rinse and repeat and my KD is going back up and feels like it did in Season 3. If I get hooked and keep playing long sessions day after day - the above stated kicks in like clock work.
I wish I could understand what's happening but I can't and can only guess and speculate. All I can say is what I said above - I know my skill level, I am not delusional or think I am better than what I am. I can tell when I am being assisted above my skill level and when I am being forced to play below it. Its really really simple to see.
So I have taken buddies advice and Apex now is a game I play for about 2 hrs every 2 or 2 and a half weeks and seems to feel like it used to back in the good ole Apex days.
I wonder if the cheating, smurfing etc isn't really being dealt with like Titanfall because if my theory is correct, then wouldn't all the cheating, smurfing, mods etc mask an EOMM system quite well?
food for thought. : )
PATHpsychoPATH
4 years ago
@DarthValtrex Can I record it in 2022? same problems as in season 0..
HappyHourSumwur
Seasoned Ace
4 years ago
EOMM is complete garbage & I hate Respawn for using it. This game is so freaking fantastic when you feel like you have a chance and have some success, but when you get melted in milliseconds repeatedly it is the single most infuriating game of all time.