Did Mastiff Get Nerfed?
I swear it's not doing the damage it did before.
Forum Discussion
@NitromethaneAPYes, ofc the TTK was lower , I have played since day 1. Red Evo increased hp by 25 also. That's a 12.5% max HP increase.
I am not going to explain changes to each weapon, I used R99 as an example. Only way to prove how much the TTK decreased would be to make a spreadsheet comparing old vs new ttk, problem is I can't find S2 ttk spreadsheet.
red evo is not even the biggest factor to the TTK becoming higher, why I didn't even mention that.
R99-R301 had barley any recoil - you could easily kill 2 people with one clip, since landing headshots back than was super ez. Wingman from season 1 you could kill an entire squad with one clip.
Hell even alternator was crazy good in season 2 with the hop-up, and yeah people cried that it was too good. When in fact it was just challenging the R99/R301 meta.
TTK is not just shields, it has many variables - why you wont see a spreadsheet breaking it down, since you can't - how do you factor recoil / muzzle flash / pellet size / spread / bullet drop down damage scaling / amount of shots per second - single tap changes into a spreadsheet? ... If you actually played season 1-2, you would probably know what the TTK was like, but I dont think you ever did.
The game had a really good TTK in season 1-2, but people cried and cried and now we have a TTK that suites people with 400ms reaction speeds.
I hope respawn gets back to their vision and not always give in on the crying. Perhaps the former best Apex players would come back to this game, like mendo/dizzy/ace.
- @NitromethaneAP There are spreadsheets out there talking about Apex's TTK including preseason Apex. When calculating TTK you take away the human factor like recoil control and/or muzzle flash and give every gun their "perfect" situation.
@Daze623 And they have calculated all the variables that has been changed that I named? Can you post the link to one from season 1 - 2.
Ones I´ve seen that are floating back from reddit did not even include headshot, it was calculated on body hits only - I mean you have to agree that those spreadsheets are a bit of a joke right?- @NitromethaneAP Yes, I have but I only had a k/d of 0.6 back then cuz I was new to the FPS genre. Wingman was just a spam fest back then, I never used R99 cuz I couldn't handle the recoil. I used only Devotion, spitfire mostly. The ttk change due to guns isn't that big like you claim. I provided you the actual changes to R99 after S2, and you can clearly see it isn't that big of a change.
Or perhaps I should show you my week 1 badge or my S1/S2 battle pass badge.
People asked for balancing and it was done. If you call that crying, then you asking to change ttk to S2 style is also crying. The only difference is there is less people on your side. Mercules904's TTK spreadsheet
I think this was for preseason Apex even before L-star and Havoc came out.
I'm still looking for other early season Apex's TTK charts that people made. They're a bit harder to find now cause of how buried they are. The reason most of them calculated body hits only is because of how realistic it is that you'd most likely hit the body than spray down the head.- @NitromethaneAP TTK requires variables like ROF, HP, BTK from what I could gather on the internet. No one includes recoil/muzzle flash/spread/pellet size/drop down scaling.
The problem and complexity is, just to narrow it down to one subject as a reference. Headshot frequency, if we base a TTK on best case scenario. That would mean in season 1-2 that 100% of the shots where headshots right? Due to no recoil - no random recoil.
How would you calculate that in todays Apex? Even the best players in the world will miss shots due to random recoil, and will never really have 100% shots being headshots. How do you calculate the miss rate?
And if you simply calculate TTK based on bodyshots you wont actually calculate TTK at all, since how hard/easy landing headshots significally increases or decreases TTK.
This is the same for most of the things I listed, and why calculating TTK on a spreadsheat is nonsense. When you do not factor major attributes that have a major impact on the results.
@BaldWraithSimp Wingman was just a spam fest? Perhaps you were just bad at the game and instead of crying you should have played fortnight or another game that is more suited for you. How is that advice you easily hand out to others fit you? 🙂
My KD back in season 2 was 4+ in soloq, I didnt have a problem at all with the game, and I enjoyed season 2 the most since it rewarded skill the most - we had the most versatile meta (not just 2 weapons being super strong). But then all the whining kids came in.
- @NitromethaneAP It's cause you're not looking for TTK. TTK have always been calculated without those variables you listed.
@Daze623 no TTK = time to kill. That is why you cant compare a TTK spreadsheat that is i from season 1-2 vs one from today, since too much stuff changed - random recoil, bullet spread, re-balancing and soo much else.
It means nothing. We all, who played season 1-2 know that the TTK was very different back than. Again show me the spreadsheat from season 1-2, that you claimed was a thing. You wont.
I will repost this :
The problem and complexity is, just to narrow it down to one subject as a reference. Headshot frequency, if we base a TTK on best case scenario. That would mean in season 1-2 that 100% of the shots where headshots right? Due to no recoil - no random recoil.
How would you calculate that in todays Apex? Even the best players in the world will miss shots due to random recoil, and will never really have 100% shots being headshots. How do you calculate the miss rate?
And if you simply calculate TTK based on bodyshots you wont actually calculate TTK at all, since how hard/easy landing headshots significally increases or decreases TTK.
This is the same for most of the things I listed, and why calculating TTK on a spreadsheat is nonsense. When you do not factor major attributes that have a major impact on the results.
- @NitromethaneAP Listen man you have been crying since S2, so stop. This thread is just full of you crying and making wild claims when you have no data to back it up.
I didn't get the weapons nerfed or complained about them at any instance, community did. I wasn't even on the forum lmao. I am sure, everyone besides you is a whiny kid. It's clearly visible who is what from the posts alone. @BaldWraithSimp you seem really offended by your own advice, I mean that is exactly and the first thing you told me in this topic :D
- @NitromethaneAP Since you are preaching about TTK so much and everyone who calculated TTK is just wrong, why don't you do it yourself? Making excuses smh
No data, just words @BaldWraithSimp I mean you claimed that TTK had not changed since season 1, then you admitted it had - and now you are just being butthurt from receiving your own advice. Yeah I am the whiny one :D
Look I dont really care that you were super bad in season 1-2, or what excuses you had to make for it. If you didnt like the TTK you should have played something else.
- There's no point on telling people to play something else now because of how TTK was back then. The game will always change regardless of people's complaints.
@Daze623 I know, thats exactly my point. When I was told that "If I dont like the current TTK I should play another game". According to said member, the TTK was set in stone, and I should never question it.
So I´m giving him his own advice, and seeing his brain rott away..
- @NitromethaneAP 'If you like low ttk, play Warzone'. Image getting butt hurt from that sentence.
The TTK from S2 hasn't changes a lot ike you keep claiming. It has remained roughly the same, that's why most people don't notice much difference. But hey I am sure, you are right and everyone is wrong. @BaldWraithSimp I never claimed I liked a super low TTK, I said I liked the TTK the game had during season 1-2.
Perhaps you need to learn how to read or even make an argument.
And people didnt notice the TTK from season 1-2? Everyone that I´ve spoken to has, and they agree that it was much better before. You think this forum represents all of the Apex community? Dear child. Give it a rest :D- @NitromethaneAP And how many people have you spoken to? 5? 10? I am sure they represent the whole community. 🤡
If more people complained about TTK being high, it would have changed by now. But you can check forums, Reddit, why is there not a massive uproar about this?
Do you remember a few seasons back they reduced all armor HP by 25? Red Evo was 200, purple was 175, blue was 150, white was 125. The changed was reverted within weeks because most people didn't like it. @BaldWraithSimp most people who dissliked the TTK going up every season left the game, season 1-2 was a long time ago.
TTK is more complicated, there is no fix - and there is no going back to what we had in season 1-2. But nerfing weapons instead of buffing them will only increase the TTK further, in season 2 and what was great was the meta - you had a lot of weapons that were crazy good, and not like it is now - that one weapon in medium/long range dominates everything.
I think the test they did was due to some major players leaving the game due to high TTK that kind of forced them to overthink. Or perhaps respawn just wanted to go back to their initial vision of the TTK and try it out. I want a meta like we did in season 2, meaning alot of weapons being really good instead of only 1 or 2 being super good. And I want weapons that require skill to be better than they are today, much like in season 2.
So TTK is now not calculated on best case scenario but on bodyshots and you claim that is real proof.
And you are referring to a document that has 391 views as empiric evidence, when you do not even know how TTK is calculated (on best scenario). Yap, these forums man.
If I try to even explain what you guys are saying on these forums, people wont believe me - I really have to screenshot it. New level of Sadge 2021.Hate to break it, but TTK is calculated based on optimal gameplay.
Posting this again for the 3d time.
The problem and complexity is, just to narrow it down to one subject as a reference. Headshot frequency, if we base a TTK on best case scenario. That would mean in season 1-2 that 100% of the shots where headshots right? Due to no recoil - no random recoil.
How would you calculate that in todays Apex? Even the best players in the world will miss shots due to random recoil, and will never really have 100% shots being headshots. How do you calculate the miss rate?
And if you simply calculate TTK based on bodyshots you wont actually calculate optimal TTK at all, since how hard/easy landing headshots significally increases or decreases optimal TTK.
The spreadsheets that do take TTK seriously, you would have to put in your % chance to hit headshots % body shots and % miss to actually calculate a optimal TTK.
And only then would you see that the % chance to hit headshots has drastically gone down due to random recoil, meaning TTK will be impacted greatly just due to that change. Instead of googling spreadsheats, you should have googled how to calculate a proper optimal TTK... I can recommend having a look at this one : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_6zsM7kzvg0aUT8YtM_-Wg_5K1gKDOlrwfVzutEjq-s/edit#gid=0
- @NitromethaneAP To be fair it's still better proof than just going around saying "TTK is so high now compared to how it was back then! " without showing anything to back it up. If you have better proof then show it if not then what's the point? You just want us to randomly believe you?
- @hayhor Last time the Easter bunny was brought into it there was more than enough proof and historical data provided why we should be getting chocolate but was told every reason why none of us were getting any eggs this year!
You take a shot at the messenger but don't shoot the rabbit too!
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