Matchmaking thoughts from a Dev
https://youtu.be/6i5642d4DNo The above link details a long standing CoD dev’s thoughts on “SBMM” in non-ranked modes. Please watch. His highlighted point is that “VARIANCE” is the most favorabl...
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@Axs5626Sxa5001
I got as far through that as I could before it made me want to put my fist through my screen.
The idea that non-ranked gameplay should be a feeding ground for high-level players, and that it's completely okay because there are no ranks at stake, is the single most offensive thing I've ever heard on the subject of sbmm. It's exactly the thing that high-level players say when they're tired of slogging it out with other high-level players and start feeling put upon, as if they have some intrinsic right to crap all over lower-level players for no other reason than because it would be more fun for them.
And I'm also tired to death of the very mistaken idea that ranked gameplay is reward driven and unranked gameplay is "casual," "non-competitive," "insert your own rationalization here for why it's okay to pit what amounts to professional athletes against kids." Rankings are a head game that do not REWARD players, they DESCRIBE their abilities. Players very mistakenly think of it as reward-based, and hence my description of it as a head game. The only reward in any game, imo, is a win. And last I checked this game offers wins in both ranked and unranked gameplay. Taking a win away from a guy who just started the game and has twenty matches in two weeks, so that some sweaty diamond grinder can feel better about himself is pitiable.
Virtually every competitive sport I can think of has gameplay broken into peer groups, grouped either by age or by skill. Little Leaguers very seldom, unless I've missed some new development, play against the Red Sox. And with reason. That kind of pummeling doesn't make the kids into better players, and it absolutely shouldn't make the pros feel all tough and manly. If it does then those people should be medicated. And barred from the sport.
Sorry about the rant but I've been pissed off about this since Halo 2, and it depresses me to have to keep defending something that seems so obvious. If you can explain it to me in a different way than Mr. Former Infinity Ward I promise to read every word.
I got as far through that as I could before it made me want to put my fist through my screen.
The idea that non-ranked gameplay should be a feeding ground for high-level players, and that it's completely okay because there are no ranks at stake, is the single most offensive thing I've ever heard on the subject of sbmm. It's exactly the thing that high-level players say when they're tired of slogging it out with other high-level players and start feeling put upon, as if they have some intrinsic right to crap all over lower-level players for no other reason than because it would be more fun for them.
And I'm also tired to death of the very mistaken idea that ranked gameplay is reward driven and unranked gameplay is "casual," "non-competitive," "insert your own rationalization here for why it's okay to pit what amounts to professional athletes against kids." Rankings are a head game that do not REWARD players, they DESCRIBE their abilities. Players very mistakenly think of it as reward-based, and hence my description of it as a head game. The only reward in any game, imo, is a win. And last I checked this game offers wins in both ranked and unranked gameplay. Taking a win away from a guy who just started the game and has twenty matches in two weeks, so that some sweaty diamond grinder can feel better about himself is pitiable.
Virtually every competitive sport I can think of has gameplay broken into peer groups, grouped either by age or by skill. Little Leaguers very seldom, unless I've missed some new development, play against the Red Sox. And with reason. That kind of pummeling doesn't make the kids into better players, and it absolutely shouldn't make the pros feel all tough and manly. If it does then those people should be medicated. And barred from the sport.
Sorry about the rant but I've been pissed off about this since Halo 2, and it depresses me to have to keep defending something that seems so obvious. If you can explain it to me in a different way than Mr. Former Infinity Ward I promise to read every word.
@reconzero
1) “ Taking a win away from a guy who just started the game and has twenty matches in two weeks, so that some sweaty diamond grinder can feel better about himself is pitiable.”
I (and many) want specialized lobbies for people who are new. People deserve a safe space to learn and they 100% should have lobbies curated to ensure the game has a “onboarding phase”.
2) You’re making the sports comparison. I didn’t sign up to play in a league or tournament. I’m not getting paid to play Apex. So please don’t compare above average players in an activity to people who are making money through said activity. Yes some people stream and play in tournaments, but that’s typically those ALL the way on the right side of the skill bell curve (the top 5-1%).
And even if we were going to use the sports analogy, sports leagues don’t stop the strong teams from playing the weak teams during lower stakes games (the pre or regular season games). The team in last place doesn’t get to say “hey no our opponents are too good”. The matches are played and a natural outcome/hierarchy is established. I think there is a relationship here that can be applied to non-ranked video game modes.
I think the common misconception is that people who are above average have no life and take pride in beating lower skilled players. I think above average players just want to win more.
But I think the reality is that a VERY REAL “valley” exists for players who are above average but not good enough to be professional. The top 1% (the whales) will win no matter what. But when you create a matchmaking structure that makes above average players the exclusive fodder for these whales, you absolutely rob above players of the rewards they were seeking in the first place “to win more than people who aren’t as good as them”— this is only achieved if everyone plays everyone (in an environment where the stakes are low).
- @Axs5626Sxa5001
SBMM is to this day a persistent feature of competitive shooters because without it a game cannot sustain a significant population over an extended period of time, something I suspect Mr. Rubin will rediscover in his new, sbmm-less project.
I think I understand the dynamic whereby masters-adjacent players are used as feeder fish for the master/predator player base. I'm also fairly sure that if you ask the average Apex player if they think that sbmm routinely feeds them to better players for easy wins that the answer will be a resounding yes. I know the problem gets worse as you approach the extremes of skill, but all you would be doing is pushing the pain threshold below your own particular point on the ladder.
The real fix, imo, is for developers to build games with easier skill curves. I know how that idea makes the best players want to slam their fists on their desks, but developers can have a steep curve or they can have a game where people such as yourself do not feel that they're slamming their heads against a wall. I really don't believe you can have both.
"sports leagues don’t stop the strong teams from playing the weak teams during lower stakes games"
False equivalency. Neither you or I are taking a paycheck to show up to this game. If Respawn wants to start paying me to get my butt handed to me by the likes of whoever it is that's so good they can't get any other kind of match... then that's fine. I'll cash that check. In the mean time what you need is a secondary account soft cheat. It pains me to say it, but that is the socially accepted workaround for every single problem that sbmm unintentionally creates.
I will also say on the subject of your 361/2 win rate: Yes, that's particularly brutal. But this season seemed to start with some kind of sbmm "problem" that had everyone facing lobbies of extraordinary difficulty. Except, of course, the whales. I'm sure it was done for their benefit. At any rate, my win/loss was definitely way off my average. I know people want to blame sbmm for every single thing that goes wrong in this game, and in truth it is the root of a lot of evil. But the one thing I can think of that would be far, far more evil is a game with no sbmm at all. - @Axs5626Sxa5001 So right you are 🙂 Love this.
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