Context: I usually hit Diamond as a solo-queue-er, and I took a break from the game for a few weeks only to now be playing in Masters lobbies as a currently-ranked Gold player. As much as many players would like Respawn to continue letting everyone get to Masters, I hope Respawn changes ranked for Season 18 so that we retain the higher quality games but also have ranks that make sense. Note that while I don't think ALGS's scoring system is perfect, I do think it's far better than what we have now for ranked and would like to see more similarities between the two.My suggestions to "fix" ranked:Make the net # of LP earned/lost amongst all players in a game 0 with the exception of bonus points.Kills as a team and placement would be the only factors in this net-0 point system.This would deviate from Apex's typical point structure where kills are worth more for higher placements and be more akin to how ALGS structures kill points - being worth the same whether your team scores last or first.As an example of how this could work, assume there are 120 LP to be earned as a team per game, with each kill per player earning that team 1 LP and placement points as follows:16-20th: 0 LP11-15th: 1 LP9-10th: 2 LP8th: 3 LP7th: 4 LP6th: 5 LP5th: 6 LP4th: 7 LP3rd: 8 LP2nd: 9 LP1st: 12 LPNote that this is slightly different from ALGS so we have nice round numbers instead of 111, the normal total # of points in an ALGS game.With a flat 6-point entry cost per team (6 per player as well, since points would be split evenly), each game would have a net score of 0 LP for all players. To keep things simple, lets say every team minus the first place team completely wipes the team before it, so each team except 20th place gets 3 KP. Scoring would be as follows:20th place: -6 LP (no kills)19-16th: -3 LP (no placement points + 3 KP - 6 entry cost)11-15th: -2 LP9-10th: -1 LP8th: 0 LP (3 placement points + 3 KP - 6 entry cost = 0 LP)7th: 1 LP (4 placement points + 3 KP - 6 entry cost)6th: 2 LP5th: 3 LP4th: 4 LP (7 placement points + 3 KP - 6 entry cost)3rd: 5 LP2nd: 6 LP1st: 9 LP (12 placement points + 3 KP - 6 entry cost)Obviously, you could scale the amount of LP needed per tier down to something reasonable where winning 3-4 games in a row would be enough to rank up and/or multiply the above by some factor that makes sense.This system would also give more consolation to teams that don't place well but have a higher # of kills, which would help end the "rat" meta we currently have. Additionally with the proposed system above, a team/player ratting for placement would have to get to 4th place before receiving any LP, which is much harder to do than the current 10th place.These numbers would be the same for every game at every rank. It does assume better matchmaking (more on that later).Bonus points can be awarded to those who are in a rank that doesn't match their MMR.This would help initially boost players to the right rank, and bonuses would be less impactful as players get closer to their MMR.When there is a rank reset each split/season, this would be the primary mechanic that quickly gets high-level players removed from low-level lobbies.Enforce solo-queue for Masters+.If the above were implemented, assists would be automatic since kills by any player would count for the whole team (as is in ALGS). The main concern here is Masters and Pred player boosting less-skilled players to a certain rank. Enforcing solo queue at this rank alleviates this issue for the most part.Additionally, the title of "Apex Predator" really should be more reflective of one's individual skill, not that of the team. Sure, many will argue that Apex is a team-based game and I'd agree, but there aren't team-based ranks in our ranked system - only individual.I think the primary argument against something like this is that Masters+ players want to play with their friends, and that's actually super fair. Especially at the highest levels, it's fun to play with those you've played with before and know you can count on. Two points on this:Most other competitive games don't allow stacks bigger than 2 at the highest ranked elos to prevent consistent sweeps by pre-arranged teams. Usually these games have 5 players on a team (Valorant, Overwatch, etc.), so this way less than half of the team is pre-arranged. The problem with Apex even allowing duos at the highest ranks is that a duo is already the majority of the team (2/3), which makes most of the team pre-arranged.IMO this would be one of those things where if Respawn had enforced this from the beginning, it wouldn't be a problem since that would have been the standard. But since anyone can group up with 2 others at all ranks, taking that privilege away would be not received well initially. I still think this would be for the best, though.A big asterisk on all of this is that it would require better matchmaking, something I have no insight into as a regular player of the game. The above doesn't account for rank differences between players, and it definitely doesn't consider that a Silver player would be matched up against a Pred (e.g. ranked in Season 17 :D). Hopefully with a better ranked system, this would boost and retain a larger playerbase so that Respawn could tighten the rank differences between players in any given game while keeping queue times short. Though I'll admit this might be idealistic thinking haha.Overall, I'm really disappointed with Season 17's ranked changes, hence why I've taken the time to draft these suggestions up. By no means do I think it's a perfect proposal - just something to maybe be used as a starting point for changes to come. I don't envy the position of the devs trying to implement a fair, well-received ranked system for a BR - it's exponentially more complicated than that of simple 5v5 games. That said, I hope Respawn/EA does something about this for the upcoming season before people get bored of the grind to Masters, since it really is obtainable by anyone at this point.

IMO, kills/knocks/assists are the basis with placement being a multiplier &/or fixed reward. Buy in determines your breakeven point, or how "well" you have to do to avoid getting demoted. Teams that obliterate lobbies & win should shoot up the ranks fast that way.Whatever system they put in, it just needs to incentivize people to take fights earlier than the last few seasons where everyone just hides until they can't anymore. That isn't what I think this game should be about . . . it is about winning fights to win the match.PS - The min level for ranked should be higher to make it more difficult for people to smurf, too.

@HappyHourSumwur wrote:PS - The min level for ranked should be higher to make it more difficult for people to smurf, too.Didn't they increase it to 50 this season?

Pity you are not working for them. I don't know what the heck QA doing releasing Season 17.

@1ndustree Very well done. I've been saying for a long time I don't understand why they don't use the algs system, with a buy in.The only change is the whole masters is only solo queue once someone gets there. This should not happen. People that have others to play with should never be punished (which we know happens now anyway). If anything people should be encouraged to communicate and join each other.

@Kyldenar They did, but I don't think that's high enough.

Forum Discussion

1ndustree

2 years ago

Ranked suggestions for Season 18 and beyond

Context: I usually hit Diamond as a solo-queue-er, and I took a break from the game for a few weeks only to now be playing in Masters lobbies as a currently-ranked Gold player. As much as many players would like Respawn to continue letting everyone get to Masters, I hope Respawn changes ranked for Season 18 so that we retain the higher quality games but also have ranks that make sense. Note that while I don't think ALGS's scoring system is perfect, I do think it's far better than what we have now for ranked and would like to see more similarities between the two.

My suggestions to "fix" ranked:

Make the net # of LP earned/lost amongst all players in a game 0 with the exception of bonus points.
- Kills as a team and placement would be the only factors in this net-0 point system.
  - This would deviate from Apex's typical point structure where kills are worth more for higher placements and be more akin to how ALGS structures kill points - being worth the same whether your team scores last or first.
- As an example of how this could work, assume there are 120 LP to be earned as a team per game, with each kill per player earning that team 1 LP and placement points as follows:
  - 16-20th: 0 LP
  - 11-15th: 1 LP
  - 9-10th: 2 LP
  - 8th: 3 LP
  - 7th: 4 LP
  - 6th: 5 LP
  - 5th: 6 LP
  - 4th: 7 LP
  - 3rd: 8 LP
  - 2nd: 9 LP
  - 1st: 12 LP
  - Note that this is slightly different from ALGS so we have nice round numbers instead of 111, the normal total # of points in an ALGS game.
- With a flat 6-point entry cost per team (6 per player as well, since points would be split evenly), each game would have a net score of 0 LP for all players. To keep things simple, lets say every team minus the first place team completely wipes the team before it, so each team except 20th place gets 3 KP. Scoring would be as follows:
  - 20th place: -6 LP (no kills)
  - 19-16th: -3 LP (no placement points + 3 KP - 6 entry cost)
  - 11-15th: -2 LP
  - 9-10th: -1 LP
  - 8th: 0 LP (3 placement points + 3 KP - 6 entry cost = 0 LP)
  - 7th: 1 LP (4 placement points + 3 KP - 6 entry cost)
  - 6th: 2 LP
  - 5th: 3 LP
  - 4th: 4 LP (7 placement points + 3 KP - 6 entry cost)
  - 3rd: 5 LP
  - 2nd: 6 LP
  - 1st: 9 LP (12 placement points + 3 KP - 6 entry cost)
- Obviously, you could scale the amount of LP needed per tier down to something reasonable where winning 3-4 games in a row would be enough to rank up and/or multiply the above by some factor that makes sense.
- This system would also give more consolation to teams that don't place well but have a higher # of kills, which would help end the "rat" meta we currently have. Additionally with the proposed system above, a team/player ratting for placement would have to get to 4th place before receiving any LP, which is much harder to do than the current 10th place.
- These numbers would be the same for every game at every rank. It does assume better matchmaking (more on that later).
Bonus points can be awarded to those who are in a rank that doesn't match their MMR.
- This would help initially boost players to the right rank, and bonuses would be less impactful as players get closer to their MMR.
- When there is a rank reset each split/season, this would be the primary mechanic that quickly gets high-level players removed from low-level lobbies.
Enforce solo-queue for Masters+.
- If the above were implemented, assists would be automatic since kills by any player would count for the whole team (as is in ALGS). The main concern here is Masters and Pred player boosting less-skilled players to a certain rank. Enforcing solo queue at this rank alleviates this issue for the most part.
- Additionally, the title of "Apex Predator" really should be more reflective of one's individual skill, not that of the team. Sure, many will argue that Apex is a team-based game and I'd agree, but there aren't team-based ranks in our ranked system - only individual.
- I think the primary argument against something like this is that Masters+ players want to play with their friends, and that's actually super fair. Especially at the highest levels, it's fun to play with those you've played with before and know you can count on. Two points on this:
  - Most other competitive games don't allow stacks bigger than 2 at the highest ranked elos to prevent consistent sweeps by pre-arranged teams. Usually these games have 5 players on a team (Valorant, Overwatch, etc.), so this way less than half of the team is pre-arranged. The problem with Apex even allowing duos at the highest ranks is that a duo is already the majority of the team (2/3), which makes most of the team pre-arranged.
  - IMO this would be one of those things where if Respawn had enforced this from the beginning, it wouldn't be a problem since that would have been the standard. But since anyone can group up with 2 others at all ranks, taking that privilege away would be not received well initially. I still think this would be for the best, though.

A big asterisk on all of this is that it would require better matchmaking, something I have no insight into as a regular player of the game. The above doesn't account for rank differences between players, and it definitely doesn't consider that a Silver player would be matched up against a Pred (e.g. ranked in Season 17 :D). Hopefully with a better ranked system, this would boost and retain a larger playerbase so that Respawn could tighten the rank differences between players in any given game while keeping queue times short. Though I'll admit this might be idealistic thinking haha.

Overall, I'm really disappointed with Season 17's ranked changes, hence why I've taken the time to draft these suggestions up. By no means do I think it's a perfect proposal - just something to maybe be used as a starting point for changes to come. I don't envy the position of the devs trying to implement a fair, well-received ranked system for a BR - it's exponentially more complicated than that of simple 5v5 games. That said, I hope Respawn/EA does something about this for the upcoming season before people get bored of the grind to Masters, since it really is obtainable by anyone at this point.

discussion

12 Replies

EspadakillarTTV
Seasoned Veteran
2 years ago
Pity you are not working for them. I don't know what the heck QA doing releasing Season 17.
hayhor
Hero
2 years ago
@1ndustree Very well done. I've been saying for a long time I don't understand why they don't use the algs system, with a buy in.

The only change is the whole masters is only solo queue once someone gets there. This should not happen. People that have others to play with should never be punished (which we know happens now anyway). If anything people should be encouraged to communicate and join each other.
HappyHourSumwur
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
IMO, kills/knocks/assists are the basis with placement being a multiplier &/or fixed reward. Buy in determines your breakeven point, or how "well" you have to do to avoid getting demoted. Teams that obliterate lobbies & win should shoot up the ranks fast that way.
Whatever system they put in, it just needs to incentivize people to take fights earlier than the last few seasons where everyone just hides until they can't anymore. That isn't what I think this game should be about . . . it is about winning fights to win the match.
PS - The min level for ranked should be higher to make it more difficult for people to smurf, too.
Kyldenar
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
@HappyHourSumwur wrote:
PS - The min level for ranked should be higher to make it more difficult for people to smurf, too.
Didn't they increase it to 50 this season?
HappyHourSumwur
Seasoned Ace
2 years ago
@Kyldenar They did, but I don't think that's high enough.
1ndustree
2 years ago
Thanks all for the feedback :D @hayhor I know that making Masters+ solo-queue only would be controversial, and I don't think there's a 100% right answer. I'd argue that at the highest levels, it could be considered throwing to not use voice comms (or at least really solid pings) regardless of who you play with, and I'd bet most teams that don't comm are more likely to lose to teams that do. I mentioned that other games don't allow full stacks in their highest elos, yet nearly everyone still comms in those ranks. I think that for those at Masters+ who want to keep pushing higher in the ranks, that pursuit of becoming Pred/high Pred would be enough to promote communicating.
And to update now that I'm nearly Diamond 4, I'm no longer getting bonuses for nearly anything, including higher KP games. This is further supporting why I think bonuses should only be reserved to promote people to their MMR and KP should be consistent - it leaves a sour taste when I perform super well but don't get any bonus points. Plus, probably every 4th game or so I get matched with someone who just lands on their own in a tree or on top of the phase runner in Olympus and rats their way into the top 10...ranked is in a very strange state at best.
xWhambulancex
2 years ago
How about when its only 2nd storm and you get revived after being knocked, how about giving the ability to use a darn syringe immediately to heal . Two of us , immediately hit a syringe , 2nd storm, revived after knock and we couldnt get it off. Game is broken anyway, maybe fixing this might help a bit and another reason maybe to still play the game a bit.
Wargasmatron
New Vanguard
2 years ago
You mean like having a Mic when your playing a squad based game ?
Wargasmatron
New Vanguard
2 years ago

Also, when you wipe a squad or 2, have 5 klls etc and end up with MINUS 30 LP, well that's just wrong. Just because you get double or triple teamed after you have wiped out 2 squads, don't mean you should be penalized for it.
garethwaller
2 years ago
I was saying this myself, like at least be able to revive a teammate and drop a syringe for him to get it off. I don't think they test their game at this point!